What about a dealer just looking at mucked cards?
 

I play in North Centrarl Florida. When NL started in July, a few dealers were looking at preflop and later mucked cards. I thought this was bad because some of those dealers were buddies with some of the players and could pass on important information. I wrote an email anonymously to the card room manager, and for a while the muck reading stopped. Now it has started again.

Thoughts?

Re: What about a dealer just looking at mucked cards?
 

Agree, it's not their job and it slows down play.

Re: What about a dealer just looking at mucked cards?
 

What's wrong with people? Just ask the dealer in a nice way to stop doing that. That solves the short-term issue.

Long term, just keep following up with the manager and individual dealers as it happens. Help the other players understand in a non-nitty way that this is kind of a bad thing. Appreciate that the dealers might just be curious/bored out of their mind and the actual magnitude of the issue.

If this is some low stakes game, get a life. [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

btw, dealers should not be making a habit of this. Especially if they can also play in the same room or communicate with players. On the other hand, how often is it significant that one folds K3o to a raise preflop. It's the stuff one calls with and folds on later streets that is 10x more useful.

Re: What about a dealer just looking at mucked cards?
 

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What's wrong with people? Just ask the dealer in a nice way to stop doing that. That solves the short-term issue.

Long term, just keep following up with the manager and individual dealers as it happens. Help the other players understand in a non-nitty way that this is kind of a bad thing. Appreciate that the dealers might just be curious/bored out of their mind and the actual magnitude of the issue.

If this is some low stakes game, get a life. [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

btw, dealers should not be making a habit of this. Especially if they can also play in the same room or communicate with players. On the other hand, how often is it significant that one folds K3o to a raise preflop. It's the stuff one calls with and folds on later streets that is 10x more useful.

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Free information is still free information. No excuses for looking at mucked cards. Period.

Re: What about a dealer just looking at mucked cards?
 

Is it the players' job to manage the dealers by speaking directly to them about a significant problem? One at a time? As mentioned in another thread (jkamowitz's "Dealers Commenting on My Play"), speaking directly to the dealers just makes them stop doing that for one player--maybe.

Plus, there is the matter of getting along with the dealers at a small card room.

As for the stakes involved (1/2 NL, $100 max buy-in) let me humbly point out that what is small stakes for advanced, experienced, well bankrolled players might be the next level up the ladder for others. Would it really matter, in principal, if it were just $2-$4 limit?

Finally, as for the information of who is routinely mucking what from which position not being useful, maybe a little imagination is in order.

Re: What about a dealer just looking at mucked cards?
 

This is a huge deal and must be put to an end. Im not syaing that there is anything nefarious going on but in some cases a dealer looking at the mucked hands is preparing to stack the deck for the next hand. I have noticed it more so in home and private games and sometimes the dealers aren't technically cheating, they are just trying to create an action game by dealing out alot of paint cards. No need to accuse anyone of anything but let the floor know whats going on and ask them to put a stop to it.

Re: What about a dealer just looking at mucked cards?
 

Just to clarify. Their looking at the players they know hands or their looking at other players cards. I see alot of players show a dealer that they know their hand and that to me is somewhat unneeded. But dont think Ive ever seen a dealer look at a random players mucked cards. That to me is completely unneeded and you would have to address that problem with the dealer and the floor if the problem prosist.

Re: What about a dealer just looking at mucked cards?
 

Why do these threads keep popping up when everyone knows the answer already? [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

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What about a dealer just looking at mucked cards?

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They aren't supposed to do it, just call the floor or go talk to the floor away from the table. Simple solutions.

Re: What about a dealer just looking at mucked cards?
 

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Just to obfuscate. Their looking at the players they know hands or their looking at other players cards. I see alot of players show a dealer that they know their hand and that to me is somewhat unneeded. But dont think Ive ever seen a dealer look at a random players mucked cards. That to me is completely unneeded and you would have to address that problem with the dealer and the floor if the problem prosist.

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What???? [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

Re: What about a dealer just looking at mucked cards?
 

I would say something once, maybe twice and continue to be friendly. If the guy keeps it up he'll never see a dime from me and I'll take every chance to explain my behavior to the table. And speak with the manager about it after every down he does it.

Re: What about a dealer just looking at mucked cards?
 

Dealers aren't supposed to look at mucked cards because doing so could conceivably enable them to set up the deck. I'd tell the floor, and I'd keep an eye on these scumbags. There's no other word for them.

Re: What about a dealer just looking at mucked cards?
 

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Dealers aren't supposed to look at mucked cards because doing so could conceivably enable them to set up the deck. I'd tell the floor, and I'd keep an eye on these scumbags. There's no other word for them.

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I agree that dealers shouldn't be peeking at mucked cards, but chalking them up to scumbags who are trying to rig the game is kind of overreacting a bit, don't you think?

And I agree with Photoc, obviously OP knows dealers aren't supposed to do it or he wouldn't be sending emails to complain about it.

OP, you're in a spot where there are presumably a lot of new dealers who probably weren't trained very well. Take it up with the floor directly since it's an ongoing problem.

I don't really care whether another dealer were to look at my cards personally, just so long as other players don't see them. If it did bother me though, I'd say something. Maybe they think it's okay or something... I've never seen it as a widespread problem TBH. But hey, if it justifies another thread about bad dealers, I guess that's all that's important...

Re: What about a dealer just looking at mucked cards?
 

...talk to the floor

Re: What about a dealer just looking at mucked cards?
 

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Dealers aren't supposed to look at mucked cards because doing so could conceivably enable them to set up the deck. I'd tell the floor, and I'd keep an eye on these scumbags. There's no other word for them.

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I agree that dealers shouldn't be peeking at mucked cards, but chalking them up to scumbags who are trying to rig the game is kind of overreacting a bit, don't you think?

And I agree with Photoc, obviously OP knows dealers aren't supposed to do it or he wouldn't be sending emails to complain about it.

OP, you're in a spot where there are presumably a lot of new dealers who probably weren't trained very well. Take it up with the floor directly since it's an ongoing problem.

I don't really care whether another dealer were to look at my cards personally, just so long as other players don't see them. If it did bother me though, I'd say something. Maybe they think it's okay or something... I've never seen it as a widespread problem TBH. But hey, if it justifies another thread about bad dealers, I guess that's all that's important...

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What if the dealer got off work after looking at your cards and sat down at the same table. Would you then have a problem with it?

Re: What about a dealer just looking at mucked cards?
 

Yes, you are right, Gonso, many green dealers. In my original post, I mentioned I had anonymously emailed the card room manager about it; he mailed back that it was wrong and would stop. So, knowing that there are many experienced players here who have logged lots of hours and casinos all over the USA, I just asked for some friendly advice on the best way to proceed now that the problem has started up again.

Like I said, this is a tiny card room, but I guess even in a big one, getting along with the dealers is very important. But as it is the only card room within 60 miles, I'd like it to be run well, and I'd like there to be no hard feelings.

As for those old hands who complain about certain topics coming up again, let me just ask, given that this is the Brick and Mortar section, how many completely new, never-before-discussed threads can be started? For those of us who haven't logged the hours (and can't find an on-point thread), we have to learn somewhere. Getting advice from here is better than making a dumb mistake that could have been avoided by asking! [img]/images/graemlins/ooo.gif[/img]

Sincere thanks to you posters who were patient enough to reply helpfully.

Re: What about a dealer just looking at mucked cards?
 

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Dealers aren't supposed to look at mucked cards because doing so could conceivably enable them to set up the deck. I'd tell the floor, and I'd keep an eye on these scumbags. There's no other word for them.

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I agree that dealers shouldn't be peeking at mucked cards, but chalking them up to scumbags who are trying to rig the game is kind of overreacting a bit, don't you think?


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I didn't say they were trying to rig the deck, I said there was a reason that dealers had no business looking at the muck. Yeah, if it's their first night dealing, scumbag is too strong a word.

Re: What about a dealer just looking at mucked cards?
 

This happened on a recent trip to Belterra and it was even worse. Our dealer not only looked at the mucked hands, but a couple of times I caught him whispering to the guy sitting to his right what other players had folded.

I was pretty new to B&M, so I didn't say anything, but man did that piss me off. Totally shady.

Re: What about a dealer just looking at mucked cards?
 

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What if the dealer got off work after looking at your cards and sat down at the same table. Would you then have a problem with it?

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That's not legal in Atlantic City. Even if it was, I'd have to say no - it's nothing I'd really lose sleep over, in fact to me it's kind of a nitty thing to be concerned about and the "free information" things is really, really overblown. I consider it more a dealer being nosy than I do a serious infraction. Whether it bothers me personally really wasn't my point though.

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This happened on a recent trip to Belterra and it was even worse. Our dealer not only looked at the mucked hands, but a couple of times I caught him whispering to the guy sitting to his right what other players had folded.

I was pretty new to B&M, so I didn't say anything, but man did that piss me off. Totally shady.

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If this is a true story, you definitely should have spoken up about it. Since you were the only one fortunate enough to see and hear it, maybe you misunderstood? I can't see it going over to well with the table. If I saw a dealer whispering to a player I'd ask them to share with the class.

Re: What about a dealer just looking at mucked cards?
 

It's called pigeon-holing and is totally inappropriate. Dealers could get fired for that in certain rooms with high dealer standards whose management is paying attention. If your cardrooms's management won't correct the problem, I'd take matters into my own hands. The next time a dealer does this, stop the game and call the floor for a "ruling" right there. Do this every single time, making sure to hold up the game and make a big deal out of it. While you're waiting for the floor to arrive, inform each and every dealer who pigeon-holes that if they do it again you won't tip them again. It will end very quickly this way.

Re: What about a dealer just looking at mucked cards?
 

Also known as rubber-necking, I am a professional dealer in large So Cal casino. If you do this, you will definitely get written up. However, if a player constantly exposes his cards to another player and I feel that another player may ask I may set his cards aside for a slight second or I might rubber-neck. I might rubber-neck specifically if he exposes one and throws both face down.

Re: What about a dealer just looking at mucked cards?
 

There is no show one, show both rule where I work (that is an idiotic rule suitable for harrahs but not based on any sound reasoning). However, I set every flashed hand either aside or specifically as the bottom two cards of the muck (with non flashed cards I of course muck them properly so they are 100% unidentifyable). This way if asked, I can show one, show all.