Ryan Braun named Baseball America ROY
 

Article found here . Thoughts? In the top 20 prospects list (subscriber content didnt know if I should just start posting it inline...mods help me out here?) they say that despite Braun's ineptitude on defense, the home and away splits of Tulo's OPS (.960 at home vs. .719 away) is what tipped it in Braun's favor. This indicates that it's more than likely that Braun will be voted as NL ROY in the real awards.

Here are the top 20 as rated by BA this season:

1). Braun
2).Tulowitzki
3).Pedroia
4).Chris Young
5).Hunter Pence
6). Dice-K
7). Tim Lincecum
8).Jeremy Guthrie
9).James Loney
10).Kevin Kouzmanoff
11).Yovani Gallardo
12).Brian Bannister
13).Delmon Young
14).Mark Reynolds
15).Joakim Soria
16).Kyle Kendrick
17).Alex Gordon
18).Micah Owings
19).Yunel Escobar
20).Josh Hamilton

One notable exception is Joba Chamberlain, who was lights out for the Yankees from when he got called up until when the Yanks got bounced. disclaimer:I don't like the Yankees and I don't like Chamberlain. I'm not familiar with the criteria, but will Joba still be considered a rookie next year, and does BA only take you into account after you've exhausted your rookie status?

Re: Ryan Braun named Baseball America ROY
 

If Joba wasn't on the list at all, I would assume he didn't meat the minimum requirements for rookie status (I'm too lazy to look it up).

Re: Ryan Braun named Baseball America ROY
 

Braun also named NL ROY by Sporting News:

http://www.sportingnews.com/yourturn...c.php?t=290147

A-Rod POY
Wedge AL Manager
Pedroia AL ROY
Carlos Pena AL Comeback
Melvin NL Manager
Dmitri Young NL Comeback

Re: Ryan Braun named Baseball America ROY
 

Chris Young and Tulowitzki would like to point out that they also play in the field, unlike a glorified DH like Braun.

Re: Ryan Braun named Baseball America ROY
 

By the way, this seems to be one of the better rookie crops in quite some time.

Re: Ryan Braun named Baseball America ROY
 

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Chris Young and Tulowitzki would like to point out that they also play in the field, unlike a glorified DH like Braun.

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he contributes less than a DH in the field

Re: Ryan Braun named Baseball America ROY
 

baseballprospectus has Tulowitzski as a dominant defensive player, is that consistent with other metrics

Tulowitski +45FRAR at SS
Braun -10FRAR at 3B

Re: Ryan Braun named Baseball America ROY
 

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Chris Young and Tulowitzki would like to point out that they also play in the field, unlike a glorified DH like Braun.

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I like Chris Young, but come on, he had a .237 BA and a sub-.300 OBP.

But man, if he can get that average up, Young, Tulo, Braun, and Pence could be battling for MVP's soon.

Re: Ryan Braun named Baseball America ROY
 

where is okijima

Re: Ryan Braun named Baseball America ROY
 

okajiima is a huge ommission. it's like they tried to combine projection and production, which is pretty stupid when naming ROY candidates.

Re: Ryan Braun named Baseball America ROY
 

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Chris Young and Tulowitzki would like to point out that they also play in the field, unlike a glorified DH like Braun.

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I like Chris Young, but come on, he had a .237 BA and a sub-.300 OBP.

But man, if he can get that average up, Young, Tulo, Braun, and Pence could be battling for MVP's soon.

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He's working on it.

1st Half .233/.277/.427 13 HR 9-9 SB
2nd Half .242/.313/.484 21 HR 20-27 SB

That second half is more than respectable for a centerfielder. But I have no idea why he was batting lead-off. What a waste of home-runs and a low OBP.

Re: Ryan Braun named Baseball America ROY
 

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okajiima is a huge ommission. it's like they tried to combine projection and production, which is pretty stupid when naming ROY candidates.

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yea Baseball America is first and foremost a prospect/minors/draft magazine. Their MLB analysis typically aligns that way, and is far from the best on the market

Re: Ryan Braun named Baseball America ROY
 

I think Tulo and Braun are about equal this year, but like the MVP, I think Tulo should get it because his team made the playoffs. Their teams would not have been around the playoff scene without them, but the rockies made it, brewers didnt. I dont know why that applies to the MVP but not the ROY.

Re: Ryan Braun named Baseball America ROY
 

Tulo's WARP was lik double Braun's.

Position and Defense matters greatly.

Re: Ryan Braun named Baseball America ROY
 

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Tulo's WARP was lik double Braun's.

Position and Defense matters greatly.

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It doesn't seem that Baseball America has "graduated" to using advanced statistics when handing out awards. That is to be expected from them. And yes, I think Tulo should have gotten ROY, he's just so good. Don't tell Braun's brother I said that hahaha

Re: Ryan Braun named Baseball America ROY
 

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baseballprospectus has Tulowitzski as a dominant defensive player, is that consistent with other metrics

Tulowitski +45FRAR at SS
Braun -10FRAR at 3B

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I don't know about Tulo, but there was a blog post today on Braun. To sum it up, Braun was terrible by all metrics and was quite possibly the worst defensive player in baseball. Talk of a move to RF has begun.

Re: Ryan Braun named Baseball America ROY
 

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Chris Young and Tulowitzki would like to point out that they also play in the field, unlike a glorified DH like Braun.

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I like Chris Young, but come on, he had a .237 BA and a sub-.300 OBP.

But man, if he can get that average up, Young, Tulo, Braun, and Pence could be battling for MVP's soon.

[/ QUOTE ]

He's working on it.

1st Half .233/.277/.427 13 HR 9-9 SB
2nd Half .242/.313/.484 21 HR 20-27 SB

That second half is more than respectable for a centerfielder. But I have no idea why he was batting lead-off. What a waste of home-runs and a low OBP.

[/ QUOTE ]

Chris Young was also a little unlucky with his .257 BABIP.

Re: Ryan Braun named Baseball America ROY
 

Tulo all the way! it better be anyway, did you guys see his defensive performance in the postseason?? nothing short of amazing. he even had an unassisted triple play this season, i mean come on this should be a no brainer.

of course i'm biased as a rockies fan but whatever, im trying not to be. TULO-GIT TO QUIT!

Re: Ryan Braun named Baseball America ROY
 

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Talk of a move to RF has begun.

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Yeah, there has been some talk of moving him to the outfield. The problem the Brewers have with that is that Corey Hart will be a fixture in the OF, probably in RF, and Bill Hall will probably stay in CF, unless they can find a better one and move him back to the IF. LF could be an option, but they are grooming LaPorta, their 1st round pick this year, for that position.

I believe most of Braun's errors were of the throwing variety, so that should be something that can be corrected (plus Fielder, while not a downright liability at 1B, doesn't quite help Braun avoid errors). Rickie Weeks was absolutely horrendous at 2B when he first made the jump to the majors and he has improved, although he still has plenty of work to do. Keep in mind that Braun just recently started playing 3B - he had been a SS in college - so he's probably still figuring it all out.

I doubt he will ever be Brooks Robinson over there, but I have no reason to think that he won't be able to improve to become at the very least an average fielding 3B.

I think Braun and Tulo were pretty even for ROY. Braun's downfall was obviously his piss poor fielding, while Tulo arguably wouldn't have been in the ROY conversation if he played for another team, given his poor offensive numbers on the road.

Re: Ryan Braun named Baseball America ROY
 

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He's working on it.

1st Half .233/.277/.427 13 HR 9-9 SB
2nd Half .242/.313/.484 21 HR 20-27 SB

That second half is more than respectable for a centerfielder. But I have no idea why he was batting lead-off. What a waste of home-runs and a low OBP.

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Yup, such a waste that this alone should disqualify Bob Melvin from Manager of the Year, seriously. Your Manager of the Year should be able to make out a lineup.

Re: Ryan Braun named Baseball America ROY
 

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Talk of a move to DH should begin

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Is it too late for the Brewers to go back the AL?

Re: Ryan Braun named Baseball America ROY
 

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Tulo all the way! it better be anyway, did you guys see his defensive performance in the postseason?? nothing short of amazing. he even had an unassisted triple play this season, i mean come on this should be a no brainer.

of course i'm biased as a rockies fan but whatever, im trying not to be. TULO-GIT TO QUIT!

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I think it should be Tulo, but this is a really bad argument.
He had a seven game stretch where he played great D and got a play, which is pretty much entirely based on luck.

Re: Ryan Braun named Baseball America ROY
 

Definitely should be Tulo.

http://www.baseballprospectus.com/unfiltered/?p=609

Re: Ryan Braun named Baseball America ROY
 

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Tulo all the way! it better be anyway, did you guys see his defensive performance in the postseason?? nothing short of amazing. he even had an unassisted triple play this season, i mean come on this should be a no brainer.

of course i'm biased as a rockies fan but whatever, im trying not to be. TULO-GIT TO QUIT!

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I think it should be Tulo, but this is a really bad argument.
He had a seven game stretch where he played great D and got a play, which is pretty much entirely based on luck.

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"seven game stretch"? The dude made 11 errors all season long. He had a 163-game stretch and a lucky play. No one's naming him MVP because of his triple play. He's also hit more HRs than any National League rookie SS. Ever.

Braun hit a ton of home runs, and that it. Period.

The Rockies don't make the playoffs without Tulo. The Brewers missed the playoffs just fine with Braun, and without his glove the last week of the season, they might have actually made the playoffs.

No disrespect to Braun, I hope he has a nice outfield career ahead of him, but there is no way he was the better rookie than Tulowitzki this year.

Re: Ryan Braun named Baseball America ROY
 

The fact that Manny Corpas isn't in the top 20 is ridonkulous

And yeah

<<<<<<<<< This guy should be ROY

I mean, you can't spell Troy without it.....

Re: Ryan Braun named Baseball America ROY
 

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Chris Young and Tulowitzki would like to point out that they also play in the field, unlike a glorified DH like Braun.

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I like Chris Young, but come on, he had a .237 BA and a sub-.300 OBP.

But man, if he can get that average up, Young, Tulo, Braun, and Pence could be battling for MVP's soon.

[/ QUOTE ]

He's working on it.

1st Half .233/.277/.427 13 HR 9-9 SB
2nd Half .242/.313/.484 21 HR 20-27 SB

That second half is more than respectable for a centerfielder. But I have no idea why he was batting lead-off. What a waste of home-runs and a low OBP.

[/ QUOTE ]

Did you have anyone that could get on-base for him?

Re: Ryan Braun named Baseball America ROY
 

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<<<<<<<<< This guy should be ROY

I mean, you can't spell Troy without it.....

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Nice.

Re: Ryan Braun named Baseball America ROY
 

[ QUOTE ]
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I like Chris Young, but come on, he had a .237 BA and a sub-.300 OBP.

But man, if he can get that average up, Young, Tulo, Braun, and Pence could be battling for MVP's soon.

[/ QUOTE ]

He's working on it.

1st Half .233/.277/.427 13 HR 9-9 SB
2nd Half .242/.313/.484 21 HR 20-27 SB

That second half is more than respectable for a centerfielder. But I have no idea why he was batting lead-off. What a waste of home-runs and a low OBP.

[/ QUOTE ]

Did you have anyone that could get on-base for him?

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It's just a matter of degrees my friend. A .368 OBP in the lead off spot creates 11% fewer outs and 24% more base runners than a .300 OBP. We once had a guy named Orlando Hudson, who was getting on at a .376 clip. But for some reason, he never batted leadoff, not even once?!?!?

Re: Ryan Braun named Baseball America ROY
 

That's because the same manager who thought Young's sub .300 OBP was good for the lead off spot liked the idea of a guy with a .441 SLG hitting 3rd.

Re: Ryan Braun named Baseball America ROY
 

I wouldn't get too caught up in this, the batting order doesn't make that much difference. In fact, I think the most significant impact the BO is to get your better hitters more PAs, so having Young bat leadoff probably is better than having a worse hitter with a better OBP leadoff. There's value to getting the HR hitter more PAs overall.

Re: Ryan Braun named Baseball America ROY
 

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I wouldn't get too caught up in this, the batting order doesn't make that much difference. In fact, I think the most significant impact the BO is to get your better hitters more PAs, so having Young bat leadoff probably is better than having a worse hitter with a better OBP leadoff. There's value to getting the HR hitter more PAs overall.

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But all you have to do is move the guy with the better OBP to leadoff and move Young to 3rd in the order. There will be more baserunners for Young and he'll still get plenty of AB's (without looking at stats, I would assume the difference in AB's per game between the #1 and #3 hitters is extremely slim).

Re: Ryan Braun named Baseball America ROY
 

Maybe I'm wrong, but it does seem you would want to maximize the AB's of guys with high OBP, and put the players with higher SLG behind them to drive them in. In this case, Hudson should be hitting 1 or 2, and Young should be hitting somewhere 4-6. I'm pretty sure the D'backs would have scored more runs this year with Hudson hitting in front of Young as opposed to the C and P hitting in front of Young.

And it drove me nuts all year watching the Cubs put Soriano in the lead off spot. Just plain dumb.

Re: Ryan Braun named Baseball America ROY
 

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The fact that Manny Corpas isn't in the top 20 is ridonkulous


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I don't think Manny's considered a rookie. He pitched 35 games in relief last season, and he was on the roster from at least July 18th forward last year. I don't know the rookie requirements for pitchers, but the fact he spent nearly the entire second half of the season on the big league roster probably meant last season counted as his rookie campaign.

Re: Ryan Braun named Baseball America ROY
 

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The fact that Manny Corpas isn't in the top 20 is ridonkulous


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I don't think Manny's considered a rookie. He pitched 35 games in relief last season, and he was on the roster from at least July 18th forward last year. I don't know the rookie requirements for pitchers, but the fact he spent nearly the entire second half of the season on the big league roster probably meant last season counted as his rookie campaign.

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Manny was a rookie last year

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Determining rookie status:
A player shall be considered a rookie unless, during a previous season or seasons, he has (a) exceeded 130 at-bats or 50 innings pitched in the Major Leagues; or (b) accumulated more than 45 days on the active roster of a Major League club or clubs during the period of 25-player limit (excluding time in the military service and time on the disabled list).

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link

Re: Ryan Braun named Baseball America ROY
 

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I think Tulo and Braun are about equal this year, but like the MVP, I think Tulo should get it because his team made the playoffs. Their teams would not have been around the playoff scene without them, but the rockies made it, brewers didnt. I dont know why that applies to the MVP but not the ROY.

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Cause it's ROY, not MVR.

Re: Ryan Braun named Baseball America ROY
 

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But all you have to do is move the guy with the better OBP to leadoff and move Young to 3rd in the order. There will be more baserunners for Young

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On average, slightly.

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and he'll still get plenty of AB's (without looking at stats, I would assume the difference in AB's per game between the #1 and #3 hitters is extremely slim).

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It is slim, but so is the difference in expected number of runners on base over the season with a .350 OB guy in front of him and random players. And getting him fewer PAs does hurt marginally if you give his PAs to a worse hitter, and the attempt to engineer it so that he has more men on base when he hits may offset most or all of that loss but it doesn't make a huge difference.

I believe the best simple way to design the BO is ascending by OPS, with ascending by OBP a close and highly correlated second. Unless you do something stupid like sort them by batting average or something, the difference is going to be around 0.1 runs per game which is maybe a game.

Re: Ryan Braun named Baseball America ROY
 

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Braun hit a ton of home runs, and that it. Period.

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Avg OBP SLG OPS
Braun .324 .370 .634 1.004
Tulowitzki .291 .359 .479 .838

I know the defense and positional factors help Troy, but to act like this isn't close when Braun crushes him in offensive production is crazy.

Re: Ryan Braun named Baseball America ROY
 

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Braun hit a ton of home runs, and that it. Period.

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Avg OBP SLG OPS
Braun .324 .370 .634 1.004
Tulowitzki .291 .359 .479 .838

I know the defense and positional factors help Troy, but to act like this isn't close when Braun crushes him in offensive production is crazy.

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FRAR Tulowitzki +45, Braun -10 thats 55runs right there, and 0/0 would still favor Tulowitzki

Re: Ryan Braun named Baseball America ROY
 

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Braun hit a ton of home runs, and that it. Period.

[/ QUOTE ]
Avg OBP SLG OPS
Braun .324 .370 .634 1.004
Tulowitzki .291 .359 .479 .838

I know the defense and positional factors help Troy, but to act like this isn't close when Braun crushes him in offensive production is crazy.

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uh

BRAR/FRAR/BRAR+FRAR

Tulo: 29/45/74
Braun: 51/-10/41

Troy Tulowitzki might win a gold glove
Braun is the worst defensive 3rd baseman in baseball

if you think these things don't matter, you're wrong

edit: added some more links

Re: Ryan Braun named Baseball America ROY
 

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Braun hit a ton of home runs, and that it. Period.

[/ QUOTE ]
Avg OBP SLG OPS
Braun .324 .370 .634 1.004
Tulowitzki .291 .359 .479 .838

I know the defense and positional factors help Troy, but to act like this isn't close when Braun crushes him in offensive production is crazy.

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uh

BRAR/FRAR/BRAR+FRAR

Tulo: 29/45/74
Braun: 51/-10/41

Braun is the worst defensive 3rd baseman in baseball
Troy Tulowitzki might win a gold glove

if you think these things don't matter, you're wrong

[/ QUOTE ]
Did I say that? I made the point that Braun doesn't only "hit a ton of home runs" and the race is closer than people in this thread are making it out to be. If I thought "these things dont matter," then I would have said, "ZOMG Braun is def ROY cuz he's got more OPS and he doesnt clog the bases by drawing a lot of walks."