QTss Flush
 

PayOffWizard is 22/19 26wtsd 53wwsf 5.65/3.03/2.37 AF over 5k hands. No history or metagame between us. Note we are 174bb deep. What is the best river line given my line so far - is the line I took optimal? I thought a fake blocking bet was the best choice out of check raising and betting a larger amount or am i wrong? Seems like a tough spot to get the most value here. If he raises, do I 3bet? 3bet and fold to a 4th bet? If I c/r do I fold to a shove?


FullTiltPoker Game #3878347752: Table La Madre (6 max) - $5/$10 - No Limit Hold'em - 23:20:07 ET - 2007/10/16
Seat 1: southside1 ($1,373)
Seat 2: PayOffWizard80 ($2,124)
Seat 3: Parra Poker ($1,027)
Seat 4: WhoIsThisGuy ($1,000)
Seat 5: Smart LAG ($1,746)
Seat 6: JungleKing ($935)
Smart LAG posts the small blind of $5
JungleKing posts the big blind of $10
The button is in seat #4
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Smart LAG [Ts Qs]
southside1 folds
PayOffWizard80 raises to $35
Parra Poker has 15 seconds left to act
Parra Poker folds
WhoIsThisGuy calls $35
Smart LAG calls $30
JungleKing has 15 seconds left to act
JungleKing folds
*** FLOP *** [2s 8s Ah]
Smart LAG checks
PayOffWizard80 bets $80
WhoIsThisGuy folds
Smart LAG has 15 seconds left to act
Smart LAG calls $80
*** TURN *** [2s 8s Ah] [8h]
Smart LAG checks
PayOffWizard80 checks
*** RIVER *** [2s 8s Ah 8h] [6s]
Smart LAG has 15 seconds left to act
Smart LAG bets $90

Re: QTss Flush
 

uhhh, wtf. the line you took is fine, i usually bet the turn, but as played, you just bet 3/4 of the pot on the river. i know 90 is no 3.4 of the pot, why would you bet 90 wtf.

Re: QTss Flush
 

I like a bigger lead on the river and call a raise

Re: QTss Flush
 

Given that i dont think youd ever block here with Ax i dont like it, just make a real bet.

But i kind of think blocking bets suck in general against regs.

Re: QTss Flush
 

hm, i do make real blocking bets. possibly not on this board though.

Re: QTss Flush
 

given that he checked behind on the turn, im surprised most people want to just make a big bet when it is unlikely he has much.

Re: QTss Flush
 

Im not raising you very often with marginal hands w/ your line on this board

Re: QTss Flush
 

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given that he checked behind on the turn, im surprised most people want to just make a big bet when it is unlikely he has much.

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there's just nothing you can do about that fact. just bet and hope he PCed an ace on the turn or gets call happy with two tens thinking you floated two sevens and are turning them into a bluff.

Re: QTss Flush
 

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given that he checked behind on the turn, im surprised most people want to just make a big bet when it is unlikely he has much.

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there's just nothing you can do about that fact. just bet and hope he PCed an ace on the turn or gets call happy with two tens thinking you floated two sevens and are turning them into a bluff.

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Re: QTss Flush
 

I don't mind the fake blocker here but I'd make it a touch bigger. I think if he has air he's more likely to bluff raise a $130ish bet than a $90ish bet.

Re: QTss Flush
 

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given that he checked behind on the turn, im surprised most people want to just make a big bet when it is unlikely he has much.

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there's just nothing you can do about that fact. just bet and hope he PCed an ace on the turn or gets call happy with two tens thinking you floated two sevens and are turning them into a bluff.

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yeaa this is my thinking as well. people aren't folding an A here ever and they tend to find a call with weird mid/big pairs also.

I'd make a standard 3/4 - 4/5 pot bet.

Re: QTss Flush
 

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given that he checked behind on the turn, im surprised most people want to just make a big bet when it is unlikely he has much.

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there's just nothing you can do about that fact.

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what about try to induce with a gay $90 bet?

Re: QTss Flush
 

or check?

Re: QTss Flush
 

I could be result oriented(Im Villain) but i definately would make a bigger lead.

Such very small bets smell fishy especially from good regs like you.

Re: QTss Flush
 

i'd just 3/4 or a bit more it on the river. i mean $90 could be good if villain sucked and was super spewy but vs someone competent he knows that he can't rep anything legit w/ a river raise so he won't bother.

Re: QTss Flush
 

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I could be result oriented(Im Villain) but i definately would make a bigger lead.

Such very small bets smell fishy especially from good regs like you.

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My thoughts as well, which is why I like betting a bit more than 90 as a fake blocker.

Re: QTss Flush
 

a fake blocking bet here will rarely induce a raise, i think. so i'd consider this more of a "please pay me off with your crappy hand because i'm laying you such good odds" bet. which isnt necessarily a bad plan, though i think $90 is a little small. I'd probably go about 1/2 pot.

Re: QTss Flush
 

wai wai wai, you're thinking that you can rep AT and get him to rep a flush by making a PSR?

what is this, bizarro world?

fps dawg get real

first he'd have to think you were dumb enough to bet a medium to small ace on this board, and after that, he'd have to think that you'll fold it.

CRing is fine, but he's got to be able to value bet thin. too many terrible players check AQ here and then when i show up with a flush they show it to show their magical power of how they saw into my soul that i rivered a flush and really they're showing me their magical lack of value betting power, the amazing power that keeps river checkraisers like me from check raising the river/

Re: QTss Flush
 

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too many terrible players check AQ here and then when i show up with a flush they show it to show their magical power of how they saw into my soul that i rivered a flush and really they're showing me their magical lack of value betting power

[/ QUOTE ]lol awesome

Re: QTss Flush
 

hm lol ok

Re: QTss Flush
 

i think like $150, I don't see the difference between the two, if he calls $90 he probably should be calling $150, and if he has a smaller flush he can make it like 450-500 to which you make it like 1150 planning on folding to a shove.

Re: QTss Flush
 

c/c

Yeah, he checks behind alot obviously... but he has more hands that he'll bet for value than he'll call on that river..

Re: QTss Flush
 

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i think like $150, I don't see the difference between the two, if he calls $90 he probably should be calling $150, and if he has a smaller flush he can make it like 450-500 to which you make it like 1150 planning on folding to a shove.

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this is stupid

and while i think a bet is good, i would go bigger than 90 fo sho

Re: QTss Flush
 

Think about it from villain's perspective with AJ. If you fire, he's like "draw came, could also have the 8 on the turn, probably not VBing a worse A, never gets here with air.. [censored] I beat nothing.." But if you check, he'll probably try to get some value..

Re: QTss Flush
 

yea makes sense i like checking.

Re: QTss Flush
 

im too used to playing with retards.

Re: QTss Flush
 

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Think about it from villain's perspective with AJ. If you fire, he's like "draw came, could also have the 8 on the turn, probably not VBing a worse A, never gets here with air.. [censored] I beat nothing.." But if you check, he'll probably try to get some value..

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Good point.....I like.

Re: QTss Flush
 

checking is def better than $90. making a bet yourself is good too against some people.

Re: QTss Flush
 

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lols

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haha

Re: QTss Flush
 

I don't really like your line in general, is preflop standard for you? Its so hard to get value unless you have a crazy image or bluff like this often enough. You're not getting bluff raised on the river, bet big because you need to get paid off if your taking this line.

Re: QTss Flush
 

yea but what if you bet big and he raises? do you just call or do you disconnect? guess it depends on how much you're already stuck for the day.

Re: QTss Flush
 

meh i normally check and hope he bets and normally works a charm then checkraise

Re: QTss Flush
 

just bet normal, he's checking back most his marginal hands and you're not getting any value from raising and you're not inducing a raise enough either

Re: QTss Flush
 

fwiw, i flat call your gay ass with 57 of spades

Re: QTss Flush
 

nothing really to back up that you're gay except that river bet, fwiw

Re: QTss Flush
 

you should bet, and bet something like 1/2 or 2/3 or 3/4 pot depending on how you play

checking is just getting too fancy, as you said, unlikely this foo has much here - so make him play a guessing game. no history or reads or reason to think he will raise a $90 bet, anyway, and tbh i'd rather him fold his pocket pair and wonder what you play like that than win his $90

i mean wtf are you gonna buy with $90

Re: QTss Flush
 

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i mean wtf are you gonna buy with $90

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you just blew my mind

Re: QTss Flush
 

i think it's the 53 w%wsf and 2.3 river af that's telling you to do this

but yeah i don't think you get raised much in this spot

Re: QTss Flush
 

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a fake blocking bet here will rarely induce a raise, i think. so i'd consider this more of a "please pay me off with your crappy hand because i'm laying you such good odds" bet. which isnt necessarily a bad plan, though i think $90 is a little small. I'd probably go about 1/2 pot.

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Re: QTss Flush
 

5k hands/no history/meta I bet 1/2-2/3rds. vs. someone else I think it's decent.