So who here stack and tilts?
 

Really thought this was aweful at first, but the more I read, the more it makes sense, particularly in light of today's advances in equipment.

Thoughts on all streets are appreciated.

Re: So who here stack and tilts?
 

I did a lot of reading on it trying to figure out if I wanted to try it.

One thing I noticed was that the inventors (I know it's not actually 'new') say that the 'old' way turns the ball into a moving target because of the lateral weight shift. But THEIRS just turns it into a VERTICAL moving target because of the violent hip thrust...and IMHO I'll take the horizontal over the vertical.

Also, most people's games need improving in the short game area, so working on the long swing isn't the right focus.

So, after much consideration, I've decided to 'pass' on the stack and tilt.

However, how do you think 'in light of today's equipment' makes any diff? Just curious.

Re: So who here stack and tilts?
 

I think today’s equipment makes a difference more from a driving standpoint as you can’t generate quite as much power with the stack and tilt as I understand it. The inventors counter that with the fact that you should be able to make better, more consistent contact w/ S&T. Still, with the drivers / balls today giving you more than enough distance, control and consistency become paramount and that’s what S&T is intended to help with.

I’ve taken some practice swings stacking and tilting, and am surprised with what a good, consistent strokes I make. Now to take it to the range and see how it translates to ball striking.

Re: So who here stack and tilts?
 

Most good players do this anyway. They just do it more like what the stack and tilt guys propose with their short irons. It's great that they have a name for their method, and I like a lot of what they are saying. But I really don't understand why you would want your spine in front of the ball with any club longer than say a 7i.

Re: So who here stack and tilts?
 

I thought your spine stayed in line with the ball regardless of club no?

Re: So who here stack and tilts?
 

I've been working on Jim Hardy's one plane swing all summer with a teaching pro. I've adopted a bit of the stack and tilt that Hardy says himself doesn't change any of the fundamentals he preaches, and fits right in line with what he teaches. I posted a video a while ago, but have since got some better quality videos. I'm going to head over to You tube right now and I'll post the link in a second.

Re: So who here stack and tilts?
 

I actually gave this a good month of range/playing and I have to say I did see an increase in my consistency with my irons but when I picked up my woods and driver my consistency went down. As of now I have gone a different route and started studying Woods/Hogan stroke types and it seems to work better for my all around game from where i'm at currently. Although I have some habits from the stack n tilt that I haven't been able to shake yet while using a different stroke. On my backswing my trailing leg still straightens out (stack and tilt) as opposed to keeping it bent and stable. I am also keeping my feet a little too open from using a stack and tilt. All minor things that I hope i can get rid of and refine.

Re: So who here stack and tilts?
 

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I thought your spine stayed in line with the ball regardless of club no?

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The spine should stay in line with where you want the bottom of the swing to be. With the short irons this is just in front of the ball, with the Driver it's behind the ball. My opinion anyway, everyone has one. FWIW, I agree with the S+T guys in that I don't advocate a lateral shift in the B/S.

Re: So who here stack and tilts?
 

My Swing

Re: So who here stack and tilts?
 

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My Swing

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That's pretty.

Re: So who here stack and tilts?
 

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My Swing

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Your hip action has improved through impact from when you posted the down the line video, imo. Very nice swing. Curious to know what angle you launch it at with not being behind the ball as much as most players?

Re: So who here stack and tilts?
 

I've never had my launch angle or spin rates measured. I most likely will this winter when I go see the guy that does my shafts/grips/lie adjustments. I'm working on not letting my left hip move too much laterally. It needs to look like I'm standing up more. A lot of my inconsistency comes from me leaning too much.

Re: So who here stack and tilts?
 

If you really pay attention to the tour pro's, you will see that most of them stack-and-tilt.

This type of swing is not for everybody, as not all people have the flexibility or strength to effectively swing this way.

The students I have that are willing to put in the work to make significant changes in their swings and fit the age/flexibility requirement for this type of swing I teach to stack-and-tilt. Once you get comfortable with this swing, most players will find it easier to acheive consistency than with the traditional weight-transfer swing.

Not all people should attempt to do this though. If you are 70 years old and lack flexibility, you won't be able to stack-and-tilt effectively (and I've seen failed attempts at this...it isn't pretty).

Re: So who here stack and tilts?
 

Those who like S&T may enjoy reading The Final Missing Piece of Hogan's Puzzle .

It is a similar approach, using old photos of Hogan.
It is a little different in it's concept and approach, but still closer to S&T than most modern teaching.

Re: So who here stack and tilts?
 

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If you really pay attention to the tour pro's, you will see that most of them stack-and-tilt.


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huh?

Re: So who here stack and tilts?
 

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My Swing

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I watched this on repeat for about 10 minutes. Never been a fan of 'one plane swings', but loved it from this angle. Any chance you post one from behind the ball?

Re: So who here stack and tilts?
 

yea, I have 7 other video clips w/ different clubs from froth and back. I'll post this driver swing from the back on you tube.

Re: So who here stack and tilts?
 

My Swing from behind.

Re: So who here stack and tilts?
 

K-Slay: I'm a big one plane vs. two plane fan here. I'm working on one-plane swing and am struggling. A couple of questions. In Hardy's vids he really focuses on club being closed when it gets to waist high going back on one plane swing (Inside and outside line drill) I've tried to stop your video from down the line and from what I could see it doesn't seem like your club is closed and is more open a la two plane swing. Does it feel closed?

Also, with the right elbow, Hardy talks about it coming up and back and not staying glued to the side and not getting the elbow underneath and getting the club stuck. He uses the sawing the log analogy. What does your right elbow feel like going back and coming thru?

BTW, that is a pretty swing.

Re: So who here stack and tilts?
 

proformance, I'm definetly a visual learner, so I apologize if I'm mis-understanding what you're asking.

It definetly feels more closed than where my swing came from. I'm not "opening" the club with my wrists at all (I feel like). I think keeping it a little more closed on the way back would be a good adjustment.

I'm not focused on my right elbow on the way back much, my backswing is just concentrating on keeping it one piece and balanced on the way back, but on my down swing I focus on my right elbow almost exclusively. Let me know if I'm not being clear w/ what I'm about to say.

At the start of my downswing I feel like my right elbow is staying stationary and I'm getting the club 'over the topish' with my forearm, while turning my shoulders really hard. It feels like if I didn't turn my shoulders hard the club face would be closed and hit the ground way before the ball, but turning hard is what makes it work, and VERY consistent.

Re: So who here stack and tilts?
 

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At the start of my downswing I feel like my right elbow is staying stationary and I'm getting the club 'over the topish' with my forearm

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Very interesting. I teach a method based on my own feel which is that if I had no club in my hand, it would feel like I flick my right ear( or slap the back of my head with my right hand). To me, what you describe is almost exactly what I do.

I'll say it again, having seen the swing from behind, your swing has improved markedly from when you originally posted it. Your balance through impact is excellent now. Nice one.

Re: So who here stack and tilts?
 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3j4L3n9yGME

PM me for Mr. Hogan's secret. :P

http://img86.imageshack.us/my.php?im...equencezy1.bmp

http://img155.imageshack.us/my.php?i...quence2xe4.bmp

Re: So who here stack and tilts?
 

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My Swing

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do u hit hooks genearlly?

Re: So who here stack and tilts?
 

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My Swing

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do u hit hooks genearlly?

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Looks more like stock shot is straight or power fade to me.

Re: So who here stack and tilts?
 

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My Swing

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do u hit hooks genearlly?

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Looks more like stock shot is straight or power fade to me.

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My miss is to the right, when I'm playing well the left side of the golf course is way out of play.

I hit it right if I'm not turning hard enough through the ball. If I'm doing that and miss it, it goes straight right if I slide my hip which causes my right shoulder to drop, or starts straight and fades if I don't get the 'tight' downward feeling out of my right arm.

Re: So who here stack and tilts?
 

to late to edit, and I miss typed...

"If I hit it LEFT..."

Re: So who here stack and tilts?
 

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My Swing

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do u hit hooks genearlly?

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Looks more like stock shot is straight or power fade to me.

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Yeah i thought the same.

Ireally like you body movement, it looks so solid.
For you to improve, im convinced you should release the clubhead way more than you do.

My sugestion is, go on the range, concentrate on holding the club so light that it almost fly out of the hand during the swing and practise with that, to make your club release more, increasing speed and hitting it more inside out than opposite.

Just try it, im not a pro obv, but i think you could get some there.

Re: So who here stack and tilts?
 

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My Swing

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do u hit hooks genearlly?

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Looks more like stock shot is straight or power fade to me.

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Yeah i thought the same.

Ireally like you body movement, it looks so solid.
For you to improve, im convinced you should release the clubhead way more than you do.

My sugestion is, go on the range, concentrate on holding the club so light that it almost fly out of the hand during the swing and practise with that, to make your club release more, increasing speed and hitting it more inside out than opposite.

Just try it, im not a pro obv, but i think you could get some there.



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I really like what you said about a light grip and a full release, as I work on those things myself.

The only problem with that (for KSlay) is he would have to completely change his technique. His motion is based on coming into the ball with a square face and holding it off with a body release. This has worked well for a number of players.

Re: So who here stack and tilts?
 

Yes you are tight, but maybe he can adjust the ball position and get something there, in case he changes his release of the club, without having to chance his body line.

Also i can imagine he hits the ball really low, which is something i personally dont like to be forced to do.

Re: So who here stack and tilts?
 

This type of strike generates a lot of spin. If he hit it high it would be a little on the weak side. I'm guessing he hits it with a controlled flight on the low side, but that he has no trouble stopping the ball in any conditions.

Again, my preference is along the lines you describe, but it just doesn't fit this guys swing, and he would need to overhaul what looks a solid action.

Re: So who here stack and tilts?
 

True, but i have a kind of weird "bail out" swing, when my normally "strong draw perfect swing" does not work :-)

It is actually positioning the ball more towards the left food, holding the club really light and then just rip my body through.
My swing then ends in a Tiger Woods/Sergio Garcia finish all the way through and i hit a long high fading drive, that comes out pretty constant, but with alot of backspin, and not that good in windy conditions.

Sure a low ballflight is no concern in normal condition, but he might be able to get more lenght, and some of the courses i play, the greens are just hard enough, to make a low ballflight, bounce too long from its first hit on the green, to keep control.

Re: So who here stack and tilts?
 

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My Swing

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do u hit hooks genearlly?

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Looks more like stock shot is straight or power fade to me.

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My miss is to the right, when I'm playing well the left side of the golf course is way out of play.

I hit it right if I'm not turning hard enough through the ball. If I'm doing that and miss it, it goes straight right if I slide my hip which causes my right shoulder to drop, or starts straight and fades if I don't get the 'tight' downward feeling out of my right arm.

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That is one very nice swing. Balance , posture, tempo, (love the plane) all very good. When I saw it from the side it looked like you had a low Justin Leonard-like finish, but from behind it looks the finish mirrors the takeaway as far as plane goes. Very nice. I'm guessing you are low single digit handicap???

Re: So who here stack and tilts?
 

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My Swing

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do u hit hooks genearlly?

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Looks more like stock shot is straight or power fade to me.

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Yeah i thought the same.

Ireally like you body movement, it looks so solid.
For you to improve, im convinced you should release the clubhead way more than you do.

My sugestion is, go on the range, concentrate on holding the club so light that it almost fly out of the hand during the swing and practise with that, to make your club release more, increasing speed and hitting it more inside out than opposite.

Just try it, im not a pro obv, but i think you could get some there.



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I really like what you said about a light grip and a full release, as I work on those things myself.

The only problem with that (for KSlay) is he would have to completely change his technique. His motion is based on coming into the ball with a square face and holding it off with a body release. This has worked well for a number of players.

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That is correct. The wrist release has its place, but for my swing that is changing a large fundamental to the exact opposite. I'm acutally not "loading" my wrists at all therefore I don't actually release them at any point. So for me to start to release my wrists more..I'd have to change my take away also. I do get what you're saying though, and there are definetly times that advice is valid.

I like my ball flight, I hit it a little bit higher than normal when I'm swinging aggressively (correctly). I don't hit any full shots inside 160, so from there-in, my ball flight varies from shot to shot.

I'm a +2.

Re: So who here stack and tilts?
 

K-Slay, whe you say "not loading" your wrists, can you help distinguish that from not "cocking" your wrists. Are basiclaly saying that your power doesn't come from a late lag followed by quick hands and wrist/forearm rotation, but comes more from body rotation??? I'm just a bit unclear.

Thx

Re: So who here stack and tilts?
 

yea, when I say not loading, I mean not cocking. My swing is attemting to be dictated by my body as much as possible and take out all of the potential errors a "handsy" swing has. My swing before was largely dictated by the timing of my hands releasing. Now I don't feel like I do anything at all with my hands.