Thinking of learning stud
 

Hello all. I am a live 4/8 limit hold'em player, but I am thinking about learning stud. What books would you suggest as a good begining?

Thanks in advance.

Re: Thinking of learning stud
 

Seven Card Stud for Advanced Players: 21st Century Edition. I'm assuming you've studied poker some, so you don't need to bother with so-called beginners books. If you happen to have S/S, Chip's section on the game is very good.

Re: Thinking of learning stud
 

Roy West's beginner book is probably the best introduction to basic stud-specific concepts.

Chip Reese's section in SS2 is also a good, higher level primer.

7CSFAP is a good read for higher limit games, but it's pretty dated and alot of the advice depends on very specific scenarios -- definitely not "the bible" any longer (if it ever was).

Mason Malmuth also has some good essays on stud in his various collections, and Jeffage has written a few excellent recent articles -- probably the best reading for higher limit stud guidance is his articles and posts.

Re: Thinking of learning stud
 

I heartily second the recommendation of Roy West's book. I read 7CSFAP early in my stud career, and it derailed me from being a winner and gave me a case of FPS it took six months to overcome.

Re: Thinking of learning stud
 

FPS?

Re: Thinking of learning stud
 

Fancy Play Syndrome

Re: Thinking of learning stud
 

I always recommend Wests for beginners. It teaches some basic concepts, and it also drills into your head to fold, fold, fold. While there are parts of the book that made me roll my eyes, and I think Roys a bit too weak-tight....one mistake I see players make, especially beginners, is staying in a hand way too much, with the ol "just one more card" syndrome. Wests book generally drums that out of them.

Re: Thinking of learning stud
 

Speaking about the stud world in generally, how are the games? Are they stale, is there a re-surgence of interest in the game, any fish or full of regulars?

Re: Thinking of learning stud
 

Thank you one and all. Looks like I will be getting Roy's book along with SCSFAP. I already have a copy of S/S so I will start reading the stud chapter 1st especially because it is written by a poker god.

Re: Thinking of learning stud
 

At high limits live, I have the impression the games are quite good. At the 10-20 limits I play, they are beatable but can't compare to a juicy 1-2 n/l he game, simply because the players are generally older and more experienced.

Online, the .50-1 and 1-2 games are very soft and beatable for huge win rates (4bb/100) if you are a good hand reader, play solid starters and know how to play aggressively in the right spots.

At 2-4, the games are often depressingly solid -- there are several regulars I want no part of head up, and I love to play head up.

Re: Thinking of learning stud
 

It depends where, and which games. I usually play 5/10 at the Trop in AC. I find it looser (and more social) than the Taj 5/10 games. The Trop has their share of old regulars, but seems to attract more "housewives", Asian gambler-types, and hold 'em players waiting for seats. The 3/6 game is also good, despite no ante. The pots get pretty big for a low limit game.

IMO, the "poker boom"/TV has pretty much killed off low limit stud. Before 2002 or so, there were lots of younger players (myself included) playing stud. Now, 99% of these guys (and newer casual players) play 1/2NL. Long story short, there are still fish in stud games, you just have to look harder and harder for them now.

Re: Thinking of learning stud
 

No ante-stud games? Eeeek, that's a first for me.

Anyhow, myself wanting to master stud for over a year I'll say this. SSI and 7Stud for Experts are quite different from each other. SSI is for high ante, while the latter is for medium.

Though sometimes I prefer to agree more with the 2+2 book than Brunson's regarding rolled ups, etc (Even in regards to high ante structures). In fact, the 2+2 one even gives reasons why you should NOT slowplay them.

I wonder if Reese ever changed his opinion on the matter. I know at the of his writing that 'he knew' he was playing them differently than the orthodox belief.

Re: Thinking of learning stud
 

The model that Chip uses in S/S is the $10/20 game, right? That's a low-ante game.

Re: Thinking of learning stud
 

Andy, Chip claimed the structure he was using was indeed for 10/20 game, but with 2$ ante.

And while some may claim this is medium ante, it comes to 20% of the SB. Am I correct in assuming that 25% of the SB is considered high-ante?

Because the 7CS for Advanced players, states it is for the 15/30 level with a MEDIUM ante (2$). However, this same 2$ brings the ante to 13% of the SB.

That seems quite a difference.

Most the places I play at are 25% of the SB, so I definitely choose Chip over 7CSforA. in that regard.

13% << 20% < 25%