Morale Dilema
 

Friend gets tagged for DWI....yes we all know its wrong and he is an idiot etc....its 3rd offense I believe and a felony...yes I still know he is a complete piece of [censored] and sucks at life...but the first 2 happened 20 years ago etc....

...situation is that he was not driving when it happened he was on side of road with flat when cops pulled up and arrested him, they never seen him physically drive the vehicle....if found guilty loses driving privledges for year which means he cant drive his kids or see him really for that matter (divorced) and pays ton of cash he doesnt have in fines etc....

All you have to do is testify that you drove car but left him there for whatever reasonable reason you could think of....

..What do you do? testify and get him off? or say sorry buddy you gotta pay the price?

Re: Morale Dilema
 

Help a brotha out.

Re: Morale Dilema
 

i was skeptical before i opened the thread, but you do have a genuine morale dilema here

Re: Morale Dilema
 

If u think u can get away with it do it up yo.

Re: Morale Dilema
 

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Help a brotha out.

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Re: Morale Dilema
 

first of all, i don't think morale is the word you're looking for here. Second, unless he admitted it, if the cops never saw him driving, he doesn't have anything to worry about and you don't need to bother testifying.

Re: Morale Dilema
 

I'm pretty sure people have been convicted of DUIs after being found sleeping in their car by the side of the road so I don't think the "cop never actually saw him driving" defense would work.

Re: Morale Dilema
 

There is no morale dilemma here.

This is nothing but bad for morale for all involved.

Re: Morale Dilema
 

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if the cops never saw him driving, he doesn't have anything to worry about and you don't need to bother testifying.

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So if cops came to the scene of a crash and found the owner of one of the vehicles stumbling around drunk they wouldn't be able to charge him with DUI? lol. Depending on the state he very well could be considered to have had constructive control over the vehicle, in which case it doesn't matter whether the cops saw him driving it.


STOP GIVING LEGAL ADVICE IF YOU AREN'T A [censored] LAWYER.

HYACHAHCAHCAHCAHAHCAHC

Re: Morale Dilema
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
if the cops never saw him driving, he doesn't have anything to worry about and you don't need to bother testifying.

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So if cops came to the scene of a crash and found the owner of one of the vehicles stumbling around drunk they wouldn't be able to charge him with DUI? lol. Depending on the state he very well could be considered to have had constructive control over the vehicle, in which case it doesn't matter whether the cops saw him driving it.


STOP GIVING LEGAL ADVICE IF YOU AREN'T A [censored] LAWYER.

HYACHAHCAHCAHCAHAHCAHC

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True, I'm not a lawyer, but my best friend is a state trooper and he says all the times he comes upon single car accidents where the owner of the car is obviously drunk and he can't charge them with DUI because he has no evidence that they were driving. Don't know if this is a state by state thing but that's just what I know. If I'm wrong, I apologize.

Re: Morale Dilema
 

Lying to the police/prosecutor FTL.....

Re: Morale Dilema
 

If your friend has a drinking problem, helping him out is only gonna enable him to go back out and do it again. So really your not helping, only keeping him from his consequences. I understand you worrying about his kids and waht not but in reality that should be his responsibility, not yours. So i vote sorry buddy you gotta pay the price (not because your an [censored], cause your a good friend)

I draw this opinion from my own experiences. Both my parents were alcoholics and it wasn't until my dad's 4th DUI, when he was facing hard time, did he get sober.

Re: Morale Dilema
 

well a long time ago I would of voted help a brother out. But since then I have had many friends get killed by Drunk Drivers. So I would say hes SOL, sorry buddy, find someone else to committ perjury for you. I hate people that get drunk and then get behind the wheel. really ruins my Morale
http://www.cardplace.ru/pictures/DK/Morale.jpg

Re: Morale Dilema
 

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http://www.cardplace.ru/pictures/DK/Morale.jpg

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You sir, are old school.

Re: Morale Dilema
 

wow, thats a tough one

I dont think I could lie under oath, I mean im sure I could envision a scenario where I would do it, but im not sure this one would be it. Id prolly tell him to ask another friend.

The only way I could see myself doing it is if he enrolled in AA and quit drinking. (dont care if hes an alcoholic or not), if he wasnt willing to do that then I def wouldnt do it

Re: Morale Dilema
 

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You sir, are old school.

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ahhh the good ole days of PTs and GPs. memories......

Re: Morale Dilema
 

[ QUOTE ]
Friend gets tagged for DWI....yes we all know its wrong and he is an idiot etc....its 3rd offense I believe and a felony...yes I still know he is a complete piece of [censored] and sucks at life...but the first 2 happened 20 years ago etc....

...situation is that he was not driving when it happened he was on side of road with flat when cops pulled up and arrested him, they never seen him physically drive the vehicle....if found guilty loses driving privledges for year which means he cant drive his kids or see him really for that matter (divorced) and pays ton of cash he doesnt have in fines etc....

All you have to do is testify that you drove car but left him there for whatever reasonable reason you could think of....

..What do you do? testify and get him off? or say sorry buddy you gotta pay the price?

[/ QUOTE ]
this is why i dont have friends.

Re: Morale Dilema
 

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There is no morale dilemma here.

This is nothing but bad for morale for all involved.

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Laf.

How good a friend we talking here?

Personally it doesn't sound like any judge is going to buy that excuse.

But if it is a good friend and I think I would make any difference yea I probably lie.

Re: Morale Dilema
 

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this is why i dont have friends.

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Re: Morale Dilema
 

dark ages was a great series of mtg

Re: Morale Dilema
 

[ QUOTE ]
Friend gets tagged for DWI....yes we all know its wrong and he is an idiot etc....its 3rd offense I believe and a felony...yes I still know he is a complete piece of [censored] and sucks at life...but the first 2 happened 20 years ago etc....

...situation is that he was not driving when it happened he was on side of road with flat when cops pulled up and arrested him, they never seen him physically drive the vehicle....if found guilty loses driving privledges for year which means he cant drive his kids or see him really for that matter (divorced) and pays ton of cash he doesnt have in fines etc....

All you have to do is testify that you drove car but left him there for whatever reasonable reason you could think of....

..What do you do? testify and get him off? or say sorry buddy you gotta pay the price?

[/ QUOTE ]

GG
NYS law
If you have are near the car, and the car is off but have the keys its s DWI. Im not even kidding.
Take example you were so drunk you pulled into an empty parking lot drawled in the back seat and feel asleep with your keys on you. You'd get the DWI.

Its reasonable for the cops to assume that he a)drove drunk before the flat b) will drive drunk after the repair.

that being said, hell yes you help him

Re: Morale Dilema
 

generally i value justice over mercy, so i say he should pay up.

edit: esp since he is a repeat offender

Re: Morale Dilema
 

How about this one:

"A friend gets drunk and takes a loaded gun and shoots it into a crowd. He misses everyone, so no one was hurt, but the police want to charge him with attempted manslaughter. If I come forward and say it was my gun that I knew was loaded with blanks he will get off the charge. Should I do it?"

The legal system dealing with DUI was constructed for a reason. How are you going to feel if you testify, he gets off, and a month later he gets behind the wheel drunk and runs over a kid?

Re: Morale Dilema
 

depending on what the friend said at the scene, could a lawyer argue that the friend was sober, drove the car and got a flat. went to a neighborhood bar and had some drinks. then decided to go back and change the tire where the police showed up.


and no im not perjuring myself for a friend under this situation.

Re: Morale Dilema
 

Dude this is so black and white. You don't get to validate lying to protect your friend from himself. You're going to lie and then he's going to do it again and kill somebody then you're the [censored]. Also, jail time is pretty cool. The idea that anybody thinks this is OK is ridiculous.

Re: Morale Dilema
 

Don't lie for him.

Anyone else think DUI should be strict liability, i.e. harsh penalties but only if you cause something bad to happen? There are so many things that are legal that are such a higher risk factor than being slightly drunk.

Re: Morale Dilema
 

Riverman,

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Anyone else think DUI should be strict liability, i.e. harsh penalties but only if you cause something bad to happen?

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By harsh penalties you mean, worse than death/disfigurement/serious injury?

The reason people DUI is that they think "it'll never happen to me"

Re: Morale Dilema
 

Did he ask you to do this? I don't think that's very nice of him.

Re: Morale Dilema
 

[ QUOTE ]
Riverman,

[ QUOTE ]

Anyone else think DUI should be strict liability, i.e. harsh penalties but only if you cause something bad to happen?

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By harsh penalties you mean, worse than death/disfigurement/serious injury?

The reason people DUI is that they think "it'll never happen to me"

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OK, but take your argument to the next step. If it is so reprehensible to think "it will never happen to me" when intoxicated, why is it not equally "bad" to think the same thing when speeding, driving without glasses, driving while talking on your cell phone, driving when you are super-old, or driving on slick roads with an ill-equipped car?

Re: Morale Dilema
 

[ QUOTE ]
depending on what the friend said at the scene, could a lawyer argue that the friend was sober, drove the car and got a flat. went to a neighborhood bar and had some drinks. then decided to go back and change the tire where the police showed up.


and no im not perjuring myself for a friend under this situation.

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This was about exactly what I was going to post. Let him lie for himself. Unfortunately with 2 dwi's on his belt already, I doubt they'll believe it.

Re: Morale Dilema
 

[ QUOTE ]


GG
NYS law
If you have are near the car, and the car is off but have the keys its s DWI. Im not even kidding.
Take example you were so drunk you pulled into an empty parking lot drawled in the back seat and feel asleep with your keys on you. You'd get the DWI.


[/ QUOTE ]

Interesting, because back in the day in Georgia the rumor was that if you crawled into the back seat to sleep off a drunk you should take the keys out of the ignition. I never knew that was an actual law anywhere.

Re: Morale Dilema
 

My post is sorta hard to understand but basically if you are in or near the car and have the keys to the car and are drunk its a DUI.

This is how it was explained to me in Traffic School/Drivers Ed

Re: Morale Dilema
 

Don't lie for this guy. He's only been caught 3 times. How many time's has he done it without being caught.

Re: Morale Dilema
 

Going to jail for perjury isn't my idea of helping a brotha out. Will the prosecutor be able to destroy your story? Can anyone place you away from the accident? Why did you leave the scene? Where did you go? Why didn't you return? What did you friend tell the cop at the scene? I'm not a lawyer, but I'm pretty sure I could blow hole sin this charade without working up a sweat.

Re: Morale Dilema
 

It's funny...in the past, every reply to these kinds of threads used to be "i'd bury the body yada yada"... but all of a sudden no one wants to lie under oath because it's morally wrong. I never get OOT.

I think if one of my best friends asked I'd probably do it, but I wouldn't offer. Afterwards I' smack the hell outta them for driving drunk and putting both of us in that situation

Re: Morale Dilema
 

tough one, but i don't think i'm willing to perjure myself for someone who is entirely to blame for the situation he is in. the fact that i'm in law school probably influences my decision, because something like this could have a devastating impact on the rest of my career.

a few years ago, i had a friend who got drunk one night and ended up vandalizing one of the buildings on our college campus, causing very significant damage. the cops were looking for who did it, and i was fortunate that they never contacted me, because i was not going to risk an obstruction of justice charge by lying to them. (i was especially fortunate since they basically interviewed everyone in our apartment, though i wasn't there when they made the rounds.)
anyways, they ended up finding out without having to talk to me. but i think that generally, if you do something completely stupid, something for which only you are to blame, you shouldn't expect people, even your friends, to risk perjuring themselves for you.

edit: i forgot to mention that he was my roommate when he did this, which makes me especially curious as to why the police did not try harder to contact me.

Re: Morale Dilema
 

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dark ages was a great series of mtg

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it was the dark, not dark ages. i played magic for a bit in high school, god it was so long ago. i would never even think to consider myself a magic nerd, yet the morale card is the first thing i thought of for a split second when i saw the thread title.

Re: Morale Dilema
 

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but all of a sudden no one wants to lie under oath because it's morally wrong

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fwiw my choice to not want to go on the stand has nothing to do with morals, it has to do with not wanting to risk my ass going to jail for his mistake. If I thought there's a good chance I would get away with it I'd do it in a heartbeat.

Re: Morale Dilema
 

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My post is sorta hard to understand

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Posting while intoxicated, sir? Please step away from the keyboard and let me see your interwebs license.

Re: Morale Dilema
 

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but all of a sudden no one wants to lie under oath because it's morally wrong

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fwiw my choice to not want to go on the stand has nothing to do with morals, it has to do with not wanting to risk my ass going to jail for his mistake. If I thought there's a good chance I would get away with it I'd do it in a heartbeat.

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