four maybe interesting hands from the $300 6m wcoop event
 

hand 1 - reads: utg seems to be playing a decent lagtag game save for when he flatted my btn raise in the bb w/ A2o like 40bb deep.
bb: playing sort of laggy but seems aggro and passive at the wrong times.

utg opens to 525 at 100/200/20 and i flat A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] in the sb w/ 10.9k behind. bb flats as well w/ 6500(utg covers both) and we take the flop 3 ways. 1695 in the pot and it comes AA7r. i think i have a bunch of options here. i check, bb checks, utg bets 1100, i flat, bb folds. turn is a 6 creating a heart fd, i check and he checks behind. river is an offsuit 3 and i lead 2750 into 3895. thoughts on the whole hand? i think it coulda maybe been played better.



hand 2 - reads: none, just moved to table.

i open KQo in the hj to 1500 at 300/600/60 w/ about 44k behind, co calls who covers, and sb calls w/ 17k. flop comes KT9r and we both check to the co who bets 6600 into 5460, sb folds and i call. turn is a 6d creating a bd fd and i check and call the same 6600 this time into about 18k. river is a 6o and i check and he shoves. about 32k in the pot and 29k behind.



hand 3 - reads: utg is playing sorta standard, only hand of note was when he limped AKo in sb vs my bb and i shoved 55 and he won the flip.

btn: playing fairly aggro and 3-betting my opens a lot, for sure more than anyone else at the table. i 4-bet him once when he 3-bet my open and he folded. i also think it's important to note that while he 3-bet me a bunch of times he has only squeezed once previously though.

utg opens to 16500 at 3k/6k/600 w/ 165k to start the hand and i flat right behind him in the hj w/ ~133k to start the hand and AQo. co folds and btn makes it 44k w/ another 120k behind. utg folds, i??



hand 4 - reads: nothing comes to mind, though i don't think reads are entirely relevant in this spot as they are others.

4k/8k/800, folded to me on the button with 140k and 22. sb has 120k after posting and bb has over 500k. thoughts?

Re: four maybe interesting hands from the $300 6m wcoop event
 

Hand 1:

I looooove leading this flop. No A is every folding and I think this gets the most action from KK/QQ also. I the BB has an A of some sort, yours is definitely better and you can get 3 streets of value from him.

As you played it, i think i want to c/r the river. KK/QQ has to bet there, right?


Hand 2:

I guess we don't have much info on the CO, but his line is so [censored] weird. I'm so confused, but some people will keep betting as long as you keep checking, so i probably call out of confusion.


Hand 3:

Probably fold, right? He rr an UTG raise + call, and he made it really small. I'd be lying if i said i don't shove there a bunch, but i think you run into a real hand too often.


Hand 4:

Ugh, I hate having ~15-17 effective BBs. Is folding terrible? Is shoving terrible? Bc i hate raise/folding. Limping seems kinda bad too. I'd probably fold there.

Re: four maybe interesting hands from the $300 6m wcoop event
 

fwiw, im trying to work on my MTT game, so please, if my analysis (especially in the 15-25 BB zone) is off, call me out on it!

Re: four maybe interesting hands from the $300 6m wcoop event
 

re: 1) yeah i think relative position makes the flop a lead. i also agree as played i could c/r the river but vs. a semi-unknown i think leading is fine.

re: 3) i mean vs. anyone standard i'm folding fast, but this guy was fairly aggro wrt 3-bets, still probably a fold but seemed sorta close.

re: 4) folding would be pretty terrible imo. after looking at some numbers i think shoving is probably correct. it is never -cEV, and could be +cEV by more than 1BB which is pretty huge long term.

Re: four maybe interesting hands from the $300 6m wcoop event
 

#1: agree with the leading the flop.
#2: really dunno - it's pretty messy. I'd db the guy before I got there, but I'm folding the river.
#3: I wouldn't flat there unless I was willing to play on to a squeeze from an lag behind. Which is to say, I would generally fold AQo with ~20bbs from UTG+1 when UTG opens.
#4: I don't like raise/folding and raise/calling seems bad too so I think limp/call, limp/shove, open fold and open shove are the viable options and I wouldn't know how to rank them. Even if nothing comes to mind, I think reads and image are relevant in this spot, unless you are David Sklansky, in which case make it 45k to go and fold to a push.

Re: four maybe interesting hands from the $300 6m wcoop event
 

i dont think i hate open folding #4. I'd def shove w/ 100k, or even w/ 120k, but 140k seems a little big.
also obviously depending on how resteal happy the blinds are/what's gone on so far at the table, just raise-folding could be fine.

Re: four maybe interesting hands from the $300 6m wcoop event
 

You already know my thoughts chewy but i'll put em in the thread.

Hand 1: We agreed we both think lead is somewhat > c/c in most cases.

Hand 2: I like the way you played it the whole way.

Hand 3: IMO this is the toughest hand. Without a read i end up folding cause i'm a pussy.

Hand 4: My standard in this spot has been to open fold. I'm open minded as to why that's wrong.

Re: four maybe interesting hands from the $300 6m wcoop event
 

[ QUOTE ]
Hand 1:
As you played it, i think i want to c/r the river. KK/QQ has to bet there, right?


[/ QUOTE ]

pb, tournament people are awful. they do NOT have to bet there.

Re: four maybe interesting hands from the $300 6m wcoop event
 

Hand 1: I like leading the flop also... as played river is a good spot to bet IMO as Aejones pointed out most people don't vbet thin enough for checking to be goot.
Hand 2. I fold because he made such a small turn bet and than shoved river. If he was bluffing turn I think he would be more.
Hand 3: Anyone 3bet pf the first time? As played hmm its super close I probably shove because I expect him to have AK almost never.
Hand 4: I hate this spot.... I have no idea

Re: four maybe interesting hands from the $300 6m wcoop event
 

[ QUOTE ]
re: 4) folding would be pretty terrible imo. after looking at some numbers i think shoving is probably correct. it is never -cEV, and could be +cEV by more than 1BB which is pretty huge long term.

[/ QUOTE ]

Idk - Intuitively, it just seems wrong. What ranges did you use to make this +1BB? I just feel that the majority of the time, it is sooo barely +EV, that its a spot i certainly don't mind passing on.

Re: four maybe interesting hands from the $300 6m wcoop event
 

Hand 1 Lead flop. Pasterbator lol at thinking people will bet KK/QQ on the river.

Hand 2 I agree with Eagles this doesn't seem like a bluff line and he can't really have that many draws unless the is doing something weird and turning a Pair + draw into a bluff.

Hand 3 Has he squeezed yet? Sometimes laggro guys will squeeze the first time they can if they haven't squeezed in a while.

Hand 4: I think I raise/fold, unless I think they are aggro enough that I would need to raise/call than I would jam.

Re: four maybe interesting hands from the $300 6m wcoop event
 

[ QUOTE ]
Hand 1 Lead flop. Pasterbator lol at thinking people will bet KK/QQ on the river.


[/ QUOTE ]

BUT I WOULD!

Re: four maybe interesting hands from the $300 6m wcoop event
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Hand 1 Lead flop. Pasterbator lol at thinking people will bet KK/QQ on the river.


[/ QUOTE ]

BUT I WOULD!

[/ QUOTE ]

then again, they probably arent going to call your river c/r, and since most people underbet in lots of places, you'll be making way less than you would if you bet.

Therefor, i like a river bet. Near pot sized.

Re: four maybe interesting hands from the $300 6m wcoop event
 

Hand 1: If this is a guy who calls a raise out of the BB w/A2, then that means he loves aces. Meaning, he could have any in this hand, and you have to be more aggressive. Either lead, or c/r.

Re: four maybe interesting hands from the $300 6m wcoop event
 

Hand 1 Hard to earn more money unless you have a bad image, but people never believe leads so you could try that if you think there's a decent chance he has a pair. I like the way you played it though because you earn money from KQ type hands.
Hand 2 I don't think he ever has anything here, his line makes no sense. On a KT9 r flop he bets over pot on the flop, then 1/3 pot on the turn. I would probably call with a 9.
Hand 3 is really tough, even if he has only squeezed once before anyone that is smart enough to 3bet a wide range would be smart enough to squeeze. I'd probably fold too though, especially considering he's squeezing against utg and utg + 1, but it's close.
Hand 4 I fold. Raise/call is really bad because alot of people will think they have FE with something like 33. You're a little too big to shove I think

Re: four maybe interesting hands from the $300 6m wcoop event
 

Hand 1
I like the play... I assume you checked the turn going for check raise. Maybe a stop and go here is better...

On the river, you may have to bet a little less to get called.

Hand 2:
Wow... WTF... I think you are ahead... but I would have trouble calling. cold call / over bet the pot / under bet the pot / go all in. Tough one. I would probably call here... I think?

Hand 3: I fold. You are out of position with AQo

Hand 4: All in or 4X the blind with the intention of going with it. Reads are relatively important because if I have a guy who will make a move on me, I probably go all in. Folding not a bad play either [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] Hate this hand.

Re: four maybe interesting hands from the $300 6m wcoop event
 

Hand 1, I like pf/flop/turn. Cbettor will bluff this flop very often, so you lose that bluff money when you lead. By river, I would just bet something small like 1400, cause a lot of his range is two pair and air. I think TT type hand is going to fold to your 2700 bet a fair % of time on river. YOur range is more ace/float when you lead for 2750, whereas when you lead for like 1400, people can convince themselves you are blocking and call you w/ a weak hand or bluff you.

Hand 2: I just bet/fold the flop. People will rarely bluff raise you there, they can call you w/ a lot of stuff pair+gs stuff, and they won't bluff that often when checked to. As played, i dunno about flop. We talked about not having the ability to vbet. Fold river once you get there tho.

Hand 3: Fold

Hand 4: Meh, if my image is tight and players haven't been too aggressive, I'll raise/fold here. Yea, we don't get flatted that often, but it's more of a randomizing/game theory thing. If they are aggro enough where you have to raise/call, just open fold.

Re: four maybe interesting hands from the $300 6m wcoop event
 

mike, wrt hand 2, by checking i regain relative position from the sb on the turn, as well as control pot a little because it's not the greatest flop. also giving a free card is fine because i'm generally not just going to stack off if someone 5 outs me on the turn.

everyone, wrt hand 4...shoving is unexploitable against any opponents, and +cEV anywhere from .5bb to 1.5bb assuming realistic call ranges. i'm all for passing up small edge in a tournament with a good structure, but is this a small edge? seems like long term this is too much to pass up.

Re: four maybe interesting hands from the $300 6m wcoop event
 

i don't feel qualified to comment on the postflop decisions but open folding hand 4 would be very stinky. raise/fold doesnt sound too appealing either. but shoving is def +ev.

Re: four maybe interesting hands from the $300 6m wcoop event
 

i raise/call #4