Flopped bottom two against a 2p2 Tag
 

Regular loose game at the Oaks 15. Directly to my right is Bdaddy, a TAG who posts occasionally and we even frequently IM each other from work (what else is work good for?) about hands we played the night before.

PF: Three limpers, Bdaddy completes in the SB and I check the BB with 76o.

Flop: Kh7h6x, two hearts.
Bdaddy bets, I raise, all fold to Bdaddy who 3-bets, I 4-bet, he 5-bets, I?

I can't think of one hand I'm ahead of here. Even 9h8h I think he just calls the 4th bet instead of 5-betting OOP...

Re: Flopped bottom two against a 2p2 Tag
 

I don't think I'd 4-bet on the flop. Your hand is effectively face-up (bottom two is pretty much the same as TPGK here) and he is still pushing hard OOP. Even if he just has a monster draw (OESD + FD), you are only barely ahead. His hand really feels like a set.

I think I'd just call the flop 3-bet and re-evaluate on the turn.

Re: Flopped bottom two against a 2p2 Tag
 

its common to see someone with a hand suck as Qh6h or 4h5h play the same way that the villain did.

Re: Flopped bottom two against a 2p2 Tag
 

I dont like your 4bet either unless he is spewy which I dont think Bdaddy is.

Re: Flopped bottom two against a 2p2 Tag
 

TT,

I really feel it should be pronounced 'Tuh-Tuh.'

Re: Flopped bottom two against a 2p2 Tag
 

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its common to see someone with a hand suck as Qh6h or 4h5h play the same way that the villain did.

[/ QUOTE ]

Sure, I see donkeys all the time who will automatically put in max action on the flop with any flush draw, but this is a 2p2er playing against his friend whose play he respects. Unless they have a history of playing each other really tricky, I doubt that he's going crazy there with just a heart draw.

4h5h is about 50-50 to beat our bottom two, and if he's got overcards too (like 8h9h), then villain is actually a small favorite.

Re: Flopped bottom two against a 2p2 Tag
 

[ QUOTE ]
TT,

I really feel it should be pronounced 'Tuh-Tuh.'

[/ QUOTE ]

Cardo - I didn't chose my secondary nickname, we can blame MeghanR for that one.

Re: Flopped bottom two against a 2p2 Tag
 

I like calling the 3bet then sometimes raising blank turn.
My frequency of raising the turn would be inversely proportional to his TAGacity.

Re: Flopped bottom two against a 2p2 Tag
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
TT,

I really feel it should be pronounced 'Tuh-Tuh.'

[/ QUOTE ]

Cardo - I didn't chose my secondary nickname, we can blame MeghanR for that one.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's my point. Isn't 'Tuh-Tuh' what she says?

Re: Flopped bottom two against a 2p2 Tag
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
TT,

I really feel it should be pronounced 'Tuh-Tuh.'

[/ QUOTE ]

Cardo - I didn't chose my secondary nickname, we can blame MeghanR for that one.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's my point. Isn't 'Tuh-Tuh' what she says?

[/ QUOTE ]

but when she sends me love letters behind DaveR's back its Ta Ta. Its not my fault she has a retarded pronunciation [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

Re: Flopped bottom two against a 2p2 Tag
 

calling the 3 bet then calling it down.

Re: Flopped bottom two against a 2p2 Tag
 

Thanks for the responses everybody. I think it's interesting the majority of opinions favor calling the 3-bet and reevaluating the turn. Usually when I flop bottom two, I just raise raise raise until I'm sure I'm beat or I get counterfeited.

Maybe this will be a useless hypothetical, as you're all already aware that Bdaddy had a OOP flop 5-betting hand. But just for curiosity, assume you don't know that. And assume I had flat-called the flop 3-bet. Then we advocate raise/folding a safe turn card? And calling down a scary turn card?

And for the record, Bdaddy doesn't spew. He might get a little tricky against me, but 99% of the time he's not putting in that much flop action without a hand (eg just a flush draw or openended or something).

Re: Flopped bottom two against a 2p2 Tag
 

I only spew a little. [img]/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img] BTW, I might go 5 bets in this game w 89hh.

Additionally, about 20 min after this hand its folded to me in HJ(seat7), and I raise KdJx, Chipspin insta 3 bets me(Seat8) and the blinds reluctanly fold. The flop is
8 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 5 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 2 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], and I insta checkraise Chipspin and he quickly mucks his hand. Several of the players at the table instantly spring to life, start yelling at us, "You cant do that crap!" , basically accusing of us colluding.

Re: Flopped bottom two against a 2p2 Tag
 

I think four betting is fine. most of the time 2 pair is best here. it is only because you have been 5 bet that you have the info suggesting you are behind. Even so you don't know for sure til you see the turn.

Re: Flopped bottom two against a 2p2 Tag
 

[ QUOTE ]
I only spew a little. [img]/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img] BTW, I might go 5 bets in this game w 89hh.

Additionally, about 20 min after this hand its folded to me in HJ(seat7), and I raise KdJx, Chipspin insta 3 bets me(Seat8) and the blinds reluctanly fold. The flop is
8 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 5 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 2 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], and I insta checkraise Chipspin and he quickly mucks his hand. Several of the players at the table instantly spring to life, start yelling at us, "You cant do that crap!" , basically accusing of us colluding.

[/ QUOTE ]

russ,
you deserve to get accused of cheating for making such a bad flop fold. [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

i once accused tnt and kurt of colluding after tnt played a hand so unbelievably terrible and forced me to have to give up my full-house draw on the turn. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Re: Flopped bottom two against a 2p2 Tag
 

[ QUOTE ]
I only spew a little. [img]/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img] BTW, I might go 5 bets in this game w 89hh.

Additionally, about 20 min after this hand its folded to me in HJ(seat7), and I raise KdJx, Chipspin insta 3 bets me(Seat8) and the blinds reluctanly fold. The flop is
8 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 5 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 2 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], and I insta checkraise Chipspin and he quickly mucks his hand. Several of the players at the table instantly spring to life, start yelling at us, "You cant do that crap!" , basically accusing of us colluding.

[/ QUOTE ]

haha

That's right. Nobody else at that table played the raise/reraise/fold style we do. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

And Vmacosta, I folded, cuz I didn't think my full house draw was any good. Usually I don't show a laydown like this (and if I do, I prepare to start calling down A-high for the remainder of the session...), but since it was Bdaddy I showed, and he showed me K6. So I actually had two good outs.... Next time it's 6 bets. [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

Re: Flopped bottom two against a 2p2 Tag
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I only spew a little. [img]/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img] BTW, I might go 5 bets in this game w 89hh.

Additionally, about 20 min after this hand its folded to me in HJ(seat7), and I raise KdJx, Chipspin insta 3 bets me(Seat8) and the blinds reluctanly fold. The flop is
8 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 5 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 2 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], and I insta checkraise Chipspin and he quickly mucks his hand. Several of the players at the table instantly spring to life, start yelling at us, "You cant do that crap!" , basically accusing of us colluding.

[/ QUOTE ]

haha

That's right. Nobody else at that table played the raise/reraise/fold style we do. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

And Vmacosta, I folded, cuz I didn't think my full house draw was any good. Usually I don't show a laydown like this (and if I do, I prepare to start calling down A-high for the remainder of the session...), but since it was Bdaddy I showed, and he showed me K6. So I actually had two good outs.... Next time it's 6 bets. [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

russ,
i was referring to the 852 all diamond board where you 3-bet pf and then folded to a flop c/r getting 9:1 and hu in position. Almost every hand you could have there is making a 1 sb mistake folding there.

Also, in the 76 hand you folded to the flop 5-bet? Or folded on the turn. Folding on the turn is sorta bad but folding on the flop is horrendous--like almost 1 BB mistake.