*** THE OFFICIAL VINCE YOUNG MADDEN JINX THREAD ***
 

no, young may only miss ONE game as opposed to a season, but it is still important to point out that a 68 QB rating only beats smith, brees, leinart, bulger and jackson. and only one of those players is currently a healthy starter.

http://image.com.com/gamespot/images...4864_front.jpg

hope it was worth it

Re: *** THE OFFICIAL VINCE YOUNG MADDEN JINX THREAD ***
 

Are you really a bust when everyone thinks you suck?

Re: *** THE OFFICIAL VINCE YOUNG MADDEN JINX THREAD ***
 

he just wins football games, even from the sidelines

Re: *** THE OFFICIAL VINCE YOUNG MADDEN JINX THREAD ***
 

[ QUOTE ]
Are you really a bust when everyone thinks you suck?

[/ QUOTE ]

i never said he was a bust, i'm just saying that just cuz the USC defense couldn't touch him doesn't mean he can escape madden.

Re: *** THE OFFICIAL VINCE YOUNG MADDEN JINX THREAD ***
 

[ QUOTE ]
Are you really a bust when everyone thinks you suck?

[/ QUOTE ]

I guess you missed when I kicked that 60 yard field goal last year to win a game or when I used the force to make Kiwanuka fall to the ground.

Re: *** THE OFFICIAL VINCE YOUNG MADDEN JINX THREAD ***
 

madden is not a realistic representation of football

Re: *** THE OFFICIAL VINCE YOUNG MADDEN JINX THREAD ***
 

I have heard it said before, but put Osama Bin Laden on the cover of next year's Madden and we would catch him before week 7 of the NFL season.

Re: *** THE OFFICIAL VINCE YOUNG MADDEN JINX THREAD ***
 

change the poll so we can vote for both

Re: *** THE OFFICIAL VINCE YOUNG MADDEN JINX THREAD ***
 

Am I the only one that remembers how bad the Titans were pre Vince, and how they are favorites to make a Wild Card with Vince Young? Not to mention the Titans might have the least amount of offensive talent in the entire NFL outside of Young.

Re: *** THE OFFICIAL VINCE YOUNG MADDEN JINX THREAD ***
 

Hopefully the trend continues as I heard on the radio today Tom Brady is on SI's cover. God it would be great for him to go down.

Re: *** THE OFFICIAL VINCE YOUNG MADDEN JINX THREAD ***
 

[ QUOTE ]
Am I the only one that remembers how bad the Titans were pre Vince, and how they are favorites to make a Wild Card with Vince Young? Not to mention the Titans might have the least amount of offensive talent in the entire NFL outside of Young.

[/ QUOTE ]

the titans saving grace this season is a godly defense. not VY.

Re: *** THE OFFICIAL VINCE YOUNG MADDEN JINX THREAD ***
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Am I the only one that remembers how bad the Titans were pre Vince, and how they are favorites to make a Wild Card with Vince Young? Not to mention the Titans might have the least amount of offensive talent in the entire NFL outside of Young.

[/ QUOTE ]

the titans saving grace this season is a godly defense. not VY.

[/ QUOTE ]
i couldnt agree more

Re: *** THE OFFICIAL VINCE YOUNG MADDEN JINX THREAD ***
 

[ QUOTE ]
he just wins football games, even from the sidelines

[/ QUOTE ]

No, they lost this past week. Big coincidence, right guys?

Re: *** THE OFFICIAL VINCE YOUNG MADDEN JINX THREAD ***
 

[ QUOTE ]
Am I the only one that remembers how bad the Titans were pre Vince, and how they are favorites to make a Wild Card with Vince Young? Not to mention the Titans might have the least amount of offensive talent in the entire NFL outside of Young.

[/ QUOTE ]

No, I remember too. Same deal with Brady taking over in NE....funny how after they arrived suddenly theres "so much talent" on those teams that were ABSOLUTELY HORRIBLE without them.

Re: *** THE OFFICIAL VINCE YOUNG MADDEN JINX THREAD ***
 

assani, franchise,

We all remember, or at least i do, but you guys are taking this too far. If you want to say that the defense had a huge confidence boost only because of VY then god damnit I'm on board too.

Re: *** THE OFFICIAL VINCE YOUNG MADDEN JINX THREAD ***
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
he just wins football games, even from the sidelines

[/ QUOTE ]

No, they lost this past week. Big coincidence, right guys?

[/ QUOTE ]

he kinda sucked when he was playing in that game

Re: *** THE OFFICIAL VINCE YOUNG MADDEN JINX THREAD ***
 

VY is the best defensive QB in the NFL.

Re: *** THE OFFICIAL VINCE YOUNG MADDEN JINX THREAD ***
 

[ QUOTE ]
Am I the only one that remembers how bad the Titans were pre Vince, and how they are favorites to make a Wild Card with Vince Young? Not to mention the Titans might have the least amount of offensive talent in the entire NFL outside of Young.

[/ QUOTE ]

Am I the only one who notices that the internet sucked a lot before I was born but it is pretty much awesome since I was born?

IOW, correlation != something something something

Re: *** THE OFFICIAL VINCE YOUNG MADDEN JINX THREAD ***
 

I just like to say that I was anti-VY back during the draft(was also anti-Reggie so...bleh). And I am loving the VY sarcasm that was so few and far between last year. Really brings a smile to my face.

Re: *** THE OFFICIAL VINCE YOUNG MADDEN JINX THREAD ***
 

[ QUOTE ]
assani, franchise,

We all remember, or at least i do, but you guys are taking this too far. If you want to say that the defense had a huge confidence boost only because of VY then god damnit I'm on board too.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not saying that VY is the complete reason they are doing well now, but people saying he sucks and is a bust are way off base. Most people thought it would take 3 yrs for him to be decent QB, but he is already there, and thats without zero weapons. I could care less about the titans, but I do think he if had at least 1 offensive weapon he would be doing a lot better as a second yr qb. And on top of all that his team still has an insane W/L record in the past 12 games or whatever.

Re: *** THE OFFICIAL VINCE YOUNG MADDEN JINX THREAD ***
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Am I the only one that remembers how bad the Titans were pre Vince, and how they are favorites to make a Wild Card with Vince Young? Not to mention the Titans might have the least amount of offensive talent in the entire NFL outside of Young.

[/ QUOTE ]

Am I the only one who notices that the internet sucked a lot before I was born but it is pretty much awesome since I was born?

IOW, correlation != something something something

[/ QUOTE ]

Thats a great point, because you have as much influence on the internet as a quarterback does on an NFL teams W-L record.

Re: *** THE OFFICIAL VINCE YOUNG MADDEN JINX THREAD ***
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Am I the only one that remembers how bad the Titans were pre Vince, and how they are favorites to make a Wild Card with Vince Young? Not to mention the Titans might have the least amount of offensive talent in the entire NFL outside of Young.

[/ QUOTE ]

Am I the only one who notices that the internet sucked a lot before I was born but it is pretty much awesome since I was born?

IOW, correlation != something something something

[/ QUOTE ]

Thats a great point, because you have as much influence on the internet as a quarterback does on an NFL teams W-L record.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well thats kind of begging the question isn't it?

But that is sort of the point anyway. In my example is OBVIOUS that I'm not directly causing the effect. In the football example is is far less obvious but it is still a fallacious argument. Thats kind of the point of analogies, ya know? Compare one thing to a more obvious example of that same thing?

Re: *** THE OFFICIAL VINCE YOUNG MADDEN JINX THREAD ***
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Am I the only one that remembers how bad the Titans were pre Vince, and how they are favorites to make a Wild Card with Vince Young? Not to mention the Titans might have the least amount of offensive talent in the entire NFL outside of Young.

[/ QUOTE ]

Am I the only one who notices that the internet sucked a lot before I was born but it is pretty much awesome since I was born?

IOW, correlation != something something something

[/ QUOTE ]

Thats a great point, because you have as much influence on the internet as a quarterback does on an NFL teams W-L record.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well thats kind of begging the question isn't it?

But that is sort of the point anyway. In my example is OBVIOUS that I'm not directly causing the effect. In the football example is is far less obvious but it is still a fallacious argument. Thats kind of the point of analogies, ya know? Compare one thing to a more obvious example of that same thing?

[/ QUOTE ]

You are implying that you obviously have no influence on the awesomeness of the internet, just like VY has no influence on the W-L record of the Titans, I grasp that concept. But that doesn't make you correct, or prove a point, because VY has directly influenced the W-L record of the Titans. Ya know?

Congratulations, you created an analogy. One that is far from the truth. Ya know?

Re: *** THE OFFICIAL VINCE YOUNG MADDEN JINX THREAD ***
 

the Titans are 3-2 with 2close losses vs very tough teams because they have a top3defense(potentially the best overall) not because of Vince Young

Re: *** THE OFFICIAL VINCE YOUNG MADDEN JINX THREAD ***
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Am I the only one that remembers how bad the Titans were pre Vince, and how they are favorites to make a Wild Card with Vince Young? Not to mention the Titans might have the least amount of offensive talent in the entire NFL outside of Young.

[/ QUOTE ]

Am I the only one who notices that the internet sucked a lot before I was born but it is pretty much awesome since I was born?

IOW, correlation != something something something

[/ QUOTE ]

Thats a great point, because you have as much influence on the internet as a quarterback does on an NFL teams W-L record.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well thats kind of begging the question isn't it?

But that is sort of the point anyway. In my example is OBVIOUS that I'm not directly causing the effect. In the football example is is far less obvious but it is still a fallacious argument. Thats kind of the point of analogies, ya know? Compare one thing to a more obvious example of that same thing?

[/ QUOTE ]

You are implying that you obviously have no influence on the awesomeness of the internet, just like VY has no influence on the W-L record of the Titans, I grasp that concept. But that doesn't make you correct, or prove a point, because VY has directly influenced the W-L record of the Titans. Ya know?

Congratulations, you created an analogy. One that is far from the truth. Ya know?

[/ QUOTE ]

That is not even close to what I am implying. I am implying that using the coincidence of my being alive to demonstrate I am responsible for the internet is fallacious, JUST THE SAME AS using the coincidence of Tennesseee winning games and Vince Young being their starting QB to demonstrate he is responsible for those wins is fallacious. He still might be responsible for the wins, but you cannot use the fact that he happened to be there and they happened to win games as an argument. This is called correlation. Correlation ALONE proves nothing. Thats the point of the analogy.

If you want a make an argument that he is RESPONSIBLE for those wins, you need correlation, which you have, but you also need more, usually some mechanism whereby he creates wins. Having a QB rating at the bottom of the league and 3 TDs versus 6 INTs is good evidence AGAINST this mechanism.

For some reason, in sports, people think making arguments like "ZOMG that cant be a coincidence" is somehow legit. Lots of things correlate with lots of other things. You need to make actual arguments to show he is RESPONSIBLE. And it isn't looking good.

If you want me to nerd this thread up further I can link the 9 requirements for establishing causality. Its actually kind of neat to approach sports arguments in this way.

Re: *** THE OFFICIAL VINCE YOUNG MADDEN JINX THREAD ***
 

[ QUOTE ]

Am I the only one that remembers how bad the Titans were pre Vince, and how they are favorites to make a Wild Card with Vince Young? Not to mention the Titans might have the least amount of offensive talent in the entire NFL outside of Young.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is my original post. The point of this post is to oppose the comments that VY "sucks." I understand that the Titans strength is their defense, this isn't a hard concept to grasp. My point is that VY has zero offensive talent. They have the worst receiver/te group in the NFL, and one of the worst groups of RB's, yet the team still wins with him at QB. The point of saying this, is that if he was an awful player, with no offensive weapons, and a great defense, they would still lose games. Obviously he isn't one of the best qb's in the league, my main point if that he has nothing to work with offensively and he is getting ripped when his team has a 11-7 record with him through 18 games starting in the toughest division in football.

Obviously the defense is the main reason that they are winning games, but he has still had a positive influence on the teams win loss record, and this is without very little help on offense. I don't understand why this is a view that so many people are coming down so hard on.

Re: *** THE OFFICIAL VINCE YOUNG MADDEN JINX THREAD ***
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

Am I the only one that remembers how bad the Titans were pre Vince, and how they are favorites to make a Wild Card with Vince Young? Not to mention the Titans might have the least amount of offensive talent in the entire NFL outside of Young.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is my original post. The point of this post is to oppose the comments that VY "sucks." I understand that the Titans strength is their defense, this isn't a hard concept to grasp. My point is that VY has zero offensive talent. They have the worst receiver/te group in the NFL, and one of the worst groups of RB's, yet the team still wins with him at QB. The point of saying this, is that if he was an awful player, with no offensive weapons, and a great defense, they would still lose games. Obviously he isn't one of the best qb's in the league, my main point if that he has nothing to work with offensively and he is getting ripped when his team has a 11-7 record with him through 18 games starting in the toughest division in football.

Obviously the defense is the main reason that they are winning games, but he has still had a positive influence on the teams win loss record, and this is without very little help on offense. I don't understand why this is a view that so many people are coming down so hard on.

[/ QUOTE ]

Do you think it is possible that Vince Young HURTS the teams chances to win and they still manage to win? I don't mean is it likely, just is it POSSIBLE?

Re: *** THE OFFICIAL VINCE YOUNG MADDEN JINX THREAD ***
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

Am I the only one that remembers how bad the Titans were pre Vince, and how they are favorites to make a Wild Card with Vince Young? Not to mention the Titans might have the least amount of offensive talent in the entire NFL outside of Young.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is my original post. The point of this post is to oppose the comments that VY "sucks." I understand that the Titans strength is their defense, this isn't a hard concept to grasp. My point is that VY has zero offensive talent. They have the worst receiver/te group in the NFL, and one of the worst groups of RB's, yet the team still wins with him at QB. The point of saying this, is that if he was an awful player, with no offensive weapons, and a great defense, they would still lose games. Obviously he isn't one of the best qb's in the league, my main point if that he has nothing to work with offensively and he is getting ripped when his team has a 11-7 record with him through 18 games starting in the toughest division in football.

Obviously the defense is the main reason that they are winning games, but he has still had a positive influence on the teams win loss record, and this is without very little help on offense. I don't understand why this is a view that so many people are coming down so hard on.

[/ QUOTE ]

Do you think it is possible that Vince Young HURTS the teams chances to win and they still manage to win? I don't mean is it likely, just is it POSSIBLE?

[/ QUOTE ]

Do you think its POSSIBLE that the fact that he has zero offensive weapons severely hurts his stats? Do you think its POSSIBLE that he has certain intangibles and skills such as leadership/4th quarter comebacks/running ability that aren't shown in his QB Rating?

These are all as much possible as the fact that he hurts the titans.

Like honestly, what numbers do we expect from this guy with the players around him on offense? Am I really incredibly far fetched in thinking that VY is better than his numbers say, and that he has a positive influence on his teams win loss record?

I've never said he is the sole reason the the Titans have become competitive, if thats how it sounded initially I apologize for not explaining my point better, I assumed it was obvious that the Titans D was the main reason for their success. But I strongly believe VY has had a positive influence on the Titans record and success, and the only evidence I have for that is that their win loss record is better with him than without him, along with the previous mentioned intagibles, but thats enough for me.

Re: *** THE OFFICIAL VINCE YOUNG MADDEN JINX THREAD ***
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

Am I the only one that remembers how bad the Titans were pre Vince, and how they are favorites to make a Wild Card with Vince Young? Not to mention the Titans might have the least amount of offensive talent in the entire NFL outside of Young.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is my original post. The point of this post is to oppose the comments that VY "sucks." I understand that the Titans strength is their defense, this isn't a hard concept to grasp. My point is that VY has zero offensive talent. They have the worst receiver/te group in the NFL, and one of the worst groups of RB's, yet the team still wins with him at QB. The point of saying this, is that if he was an awful player, with no offensive weapons, and a great defense, they would still lose games. Obviously he isn't one of the best qb's in the league, my main point if that he has nothing to work with offensively and he is getting ripped when his team has a 11-7 record with him through 18 games starting in the toughest division in football.

Obviously the defense is the main reason that they are winning games, but he has still had a positive influence on the teams win loss record, and this is without very little help on offense. I don't understand why this is a view that so many people are coming down so hard on.

[/ QUOTE ]

Do you think it is possible that Vince Young HURTS the teams chances to win and they still manage to win? I don't mean is it likely, just is it POSSIBLE?

[/ QUOTE ]

Do you think its POSSIBLE that the fact that he has zero offensive weapons severely hurts his stats? Do you think its POSSIBLE that he has certain intangibles and skills such as leadership/4th quarter comebacks/running ability that aren't shown in his QB Rating?

These are all as much possible as the fact that he hurts the titans.

Like honestly, what numbers do we expect from this guy with the players around him on offense? Am I really incredibly far fetched in thinking that VY is better than his numbers say, and that he has a positive influence on his teams win loss record?

I've never said he is the sole reason the the Titans have become competitive, if thats how it sounded initially I apologize for not explaining my point better, I assumed it was obvious that the Titans D was the main reason for their success. But I strongly believe VY has had a positive influence on the Titans record and success, and the only evidence I have for that is that their win loss record is better with him than without him, along with the previous mentioned intagibles, but thats enough for me.

[/ QUOTE ]

Of course those things are possible. I'd say they are even very likely. The reason I'm asking if its possible for him to hurt the team and for them to still win is to make the point that winning doesn't prove anything. It would be a pretty ridiculous argument to claim that J.D. Drew is an underrated player and deserves credit for the Red Sox being the best team in baseball this year right? I mean, obviously he is clutch and makes the rest of the guys around him better, and hey, it cant be a coincidence that he is on the team and they won all those games! Then you'd point out that he was a net negative just not negative enough to cost them the game.

Of course NFL QB is a little different because its the highest leverage position (I'm almost certain). So, if he is a net negative, he is bound to be a HUGE net negative and its unlikely they can overcome this. But its still possible.

Of course VY would be better with some real weapons. EVERYONE would be better if they had better players around them. But that doesn't mean he is good. You can't just say "Hey he might be a star if he was on the Pats therefore ignore the fact that he currently basically sucks." He's bad. He's not bad enough to lose games, apparently, but he is bad. Below average, for sure.

Re: *** THE OFFICIAL VINCE YOUNG MADDEN JINX THREAD ***
 

I hope AP and the Vikings enjoy this season, because he's next.

Re: *** THE OFFICIAL VINCE YOUNG MADDEN JINX THREAD ***
 

I hope Madden never puts a whole team on the cover. That would be one sad plane crash.

Re: *** THE OFFICIAL VINCE YOUNG MADDEN JINX THREAD ***
 

When Vince Young left Sunday's game, the Titans were tied 3-3. They lost on a last second field goal. I really doubt VY had that much of an effect on the game. In fact, Kerry Collins probably played better if only because he didn't throw a pick.

Oh, and part of the reason for VY's last minute heroics last year is because he is obviously much better out of the shotgun. Norm Chow, for whatever reason, tries to make VY run a normal offense for the first 3 and a half quarters, then lets him go crazy in the shotgun to finish the game when they're trailing.

Re: *** THE OFFICIAL VINCE YOUNG MADDEN JINX THREAD ***
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
he just wins football games, even from the sidelines

[/ QUOTE ]

No, they lost this past week. Big coincidence, right guys?

[/ QUOTE ]

he kinda sucked when he was playing in that game

[/ QUOTE ]

And yet they were tied on the road against a very good opponent when he got injured. Funny how Vince always "sucks" yet puts his team in position to win...yet without him they lose. But again I'm sure this is just a total huge coincidence.

Re: *** THE OFFICIAL VINCE YOUNG MADDEN JINX THREAD ***
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

Am I the only one that remembers how bad the Titans were pre Vince, and how they are favorites to make a Wild Card with Vince Young? Not to mention the Titans might have the least amount of offensive talent in the entire NFL outside of Young.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is my original post. The point of this post is to oppose the comments that VY "sucks." I understand that the Titans strength is their defense, this isn't a hard concept to grasp. My point is that VY has zero offensive talent. They have the worst receiver/te group in the NFL, and one of the worst groups of RB's, yet the team still wins with him at QB. The point of saying this, is that if he was an awful player, with no offensive weapons, and a great defense, they would still lose games. Obviously he isn't one of the best qb's in the league, my main point if that he has nothing to work with offensively and he is getting ripped when his team has a 11-7 record with him through 18 games starting in the toughest division in football.

Obviously the defense is the main reason that they are winning games, but he has still had a positive influence on the teams win loss record, and this is without very little help on offense. I don't understand why this is a view that so many people are coming down so hard on.

[/ QUOTE ]

Do you think it is possible that Vince Young HURTS the teams chances to win and they still manage to win? I don't mean is it likely, just is it POSSIBLE?

[/ QUOTE ]

Possible? Yes. Also possible that Tom Brady and Peyton Manning hurt their team's chances of winning. Likely? No. VY has won everywhere he goes. And before he arrives and after he leaves, his teams don't win nearly as much. Yes it could be a huge coincidence, but I don't see why you'd think that. I also don't see why you'd believe the rest of the Titans magically went from doormat at the beginning of last year to playoff contender at the middle/end of lsat year and this year....isn't the change at QB a major change and most likely the reasoning?

Re: *** THE OFFICIAL VINCE YOUNG MADDEN JINX THREAD ***
 

[ QUOTE ]
? Do you think its POSSIBLE that he has certain intangibles and skills such as leadership/4th quarter comebacks/running ability that aren't shown in his QB Rating?


[/ QUOTE ]
If only there were some way to measure his running ability....

Re: *** THE OFFICIAL VINCE YOUNG MADDEN JINX THREAD ***
 

[ QUOTE ]
I have heard it said before, but put Osama Bin Laden on the cover of next year's Madden and we would catch him before week 7 of the NFL season.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hahaha

Re: *** THE OFFICIAL VINCE YOUNG MADDEN JINX THREAD ***
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
he just wins football games, even from the sidelines

[/ QUOTE ]

No, they lost this past week. Big coincidence, right guys?

[/ QUOTE ]

he kinda sucked when he was playing in that game

[/ QUOTE ]

And yet they were tied on the road against a very good opponent when he got injured. Funny how Vince always "sucks" yet puts his team in position to win...yet without him they lose. But again I'm sure this is just a total huge coincidence.

[/ QUOTE ]
Assani,
Why were the titans in a position to win the game? It is because there defense allowed 3 points. VY literally could have kneeled every single play and than have the punter kick it away and it would be a 1 possession game. BTW Do you know who led there offense to the 1 touchdown they scored? It was Kerry Collins not VY.

Re: *** THE OFFICIAL VINCE YOUNG MADDEN JINX THREAD ***
 

What's funny is you could have put anybody on the cover except for Manning and Brady and the jinx would hold true. This has been a wild year injury-wise.

Re: *** THE OFFICIAL VINCE YOUNG MADDEN JINX THREAD ***
 

VY parted the Red Sea.

Re: *** THE OFFICIAL VINCE YOUNG MADDEN JINX THREAD ***
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
he just wins football games, even from the sidelines

[/ QUOTE ]

No, they lost this past week. Big coincidence, right guys?

[/ QUOTE ]

he kinda sucked when he was playing in that game

[/ QUOTE ]

And yet they were tied on the road against a very good opponent when he got injured. Funny how Vince always "sucks" yet puts his team in position to win...yet without him they lose. But again I'm sure this is just a total huge coincidence.

[/ QUOTE ]

yes, yes it is. not to worry though, when vince gets back, we'll eventually see that he doesn't have any magical winning powder that he sprinkles on the defense.