Online beginner
 

Hi, I'm fairly new to poker (6 months) and I've played about 700 games or so on-line. I've lost about $400. I usually play $5 no-limit 9-person tournaments, and sometimes the $10, at FullTilt. Is this a good place for me to be playing and should I be disheartened that I'm down so much so soon? I feel like I'm a competent player, I just get impatient sometimes, or go on tilt and blow everything I worked all week to earn. Anybody have any advice?

I've read the Harrington books, and I've got the Sklansky's No-Limit Theory and Practice book.

UPDATE: I just found a post with the exact same question, but I'm a little confused. Are Sit-and-Gos always the tourneys or are cash games called SnG as well?

Re: Online beginner
 

Cash games are called sometimes called ring games. Cash games are never called SnG. SnG are always tournies.

Re: Online beginner
 

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I feel like I'm a competent player, I just get impatient sometimes,

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Patience was the hardest thing for me to learn, and the single most important thing.

Re: Online beginner
 

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I've lost about $400.

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Don't do that!
I'd recommend really really good bankroll management while you're learning.

I'm new too and I haven't lost anything.

Some articles:
http://www.fulltiltpoker.com/poker-blog/...ance_part_i.php
http://www.thepokerbank.com/bankroll-management.html
"Chris Ferguson established the following rules for managing his bankroll. These rules should be committed to memory by all poker players.

1. Never buy into a cash game or SnG with more than 5% of your bankroll.

2. Never buy into a MTT with more than 2% of your bankroll.

3. If at any time in a no-limit or pot-limit game the money on the table represents more than 10% of your bankroll, leave the game when the blinds come to you."

Re: Online beginner
 

If you've lost that much, that fast, at those levels, you are probably not as good as you think you are. Don't tilt, if you feel like you're going to tilt, take a break or quit playing. BR management is also a key factor. I wouldn't play higher than $5 SNG until I was a winning player at them.

Re: Online beginner
 

well, i would say that you are a break even player
you have to learn how to beat the rake.
700 sng at %5 mean you pay $350 in rake
if you lost $400, that mean you lost $50 bux, because $350 are the rake paid to the house.
that is why alot people are break even player, to be a winning player, you must beat the rake
for SNG rake is 10%
so if you beat the SNG by 6%, you would still come out 4% in the red.

Re: Online beginner
 

These are some of the deficiencies I had when starting out that I have corrected, maybe you'll see something worth thinking about. I have about as much experience as you, playing mostly the same $5 STT game, but on PS. I'd characterize myself as a breakeven player (after rake), a bit to the positive side at the moment.

- You probably aren't playing as tight as you think you are early in the sng. I used to think hands like KT, KJ, AT, AJ were good and would play them from any position, call preflop raises with them etc. Don't play these too frequently in the first 3 levels or so when the blinds are low and the table is full.

- Be careful about completing from the small blind if you have complete trash. Some players play every small blind in an unraised pot. It may seem like you are getting good odds to play but if your post-flop skills aren't well developed you could end up wasting a lot of chips on something you should have just folded in the first place.

- Do not try to get too fancy/aggressive against a calling station moron. If you see a guy is just flatting it every time you try to steal his blind, strongly reconsider what your move is when you are holding something marginal, and make a note on him. Also make a note on players who will not fold to a bluff/cbet and adjust accordingly.

- If a guy is on an obvious flush draw and he calls with bad odds, don't pay him off when he hits and bets big on the river. I used to do this out of pure frustration/tilt. There's no point in rewarding someone else for playing poorly.

Re: Online beginner
 

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These are some of the deficiencies I had when starting out that I have corrected

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All good points, thank you. I usually (i.e. sober) only play the best stuff from early position, AA, KK, AKs, AQs, QQ. The flush thing is a definite problem for me. Another problem I have is having a great hand, say AA, then seeing KK on the flop and being unable to lay the aces down, even if I know my oppenent has a K. It's like I'm paying to see his cards...

Re: Online beginner
 

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If you've lost that much, that fast, at those levels, you are probably not as good as you think you are.

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When I'm sitting down, concentrating, in a decent mood, I can usually win or place a 9 person match at $5. But then I start entering those 45 person matches and 80% of the time losing on something careless. Then I enter a $10 match and do the same thing. Then I think, if I do a $20 heads up, I'll get SOME of that back...then I play the heads-up real aggressively and lose.

Really, the tilt is the problem. I'd actually gotten into the black, when i tilted, and blew through it ALL in a week. This is before i knew what tilt was...

thanks for the tips.

Re: Online beginner
 

Thanks, crystal. I'll check these out.


UPDATE: best line of the bankroll management URLS is "It should be noted that if you are a losing poker player, bankroll management is not going to help you win money."

Re: Online beginner
 

IMO 45 man games are closer in nature to an MTT than the STTs you play most often. Naturally you are going to have higher variance playing them.

If you find yourself doing something completely stupid in a 9 man game, just shake it off and realize that all you lost was your $5 buyin. If you can get ahold of yourself, fire up another one, but it sounds like you can't which, is hardly uncommon. Probably the last thing you want to do in this mental state is play tougher competition for higher stakes. Just play the STT until you find your self consistently making money over long periods of time, then consider expanding your horizons to other formats and higher buyins.

I think what I'm saying here is completely unprofound but needs to be said nonetheless.

Re: Online beginner
 

Its that river card that infuriates me and makes me wanna go on a spending spree. That, and the fact that I hold myself to these 'strict' standards only to see these annoying people going all-in with 36 suited.

Re: Online beginner
 

Play lower and establish a track-record. On Full Tilt that means $2+.25 SnGs. I am only a modestly good player even at that level (13% av. ROI over 450 games), but basically playing tight is right. Add in a few concepts, such as bubble-play and equity and you should be able etch out a good winning streak. Post hands in the STT forum and get line-checked as well.

Just some general comments, AQ is a danger hand here, and you should probably avoid being a caller with it, at least in the early levels. With AQ I like to be the first raiser and I only like playing it from perhaps button+2. Even with AK, if there is major action (i.e. it has been 3-bet before it reaches you, or re-raised then re-re-raised if you played it from EP), it is usually an easy laydown. The only hands I will refuse to laydown preflop in the early levels are AA, KK. Other than that, action dictates a lot of what I will do. Some guys with 3-bet with AJ or 88, but typically you are losing against their range with a hand like AQ. I am talking about AQ, AK (and even perhaps AJ) in particular because people seem to have a tremendous problems playing them well and many bust-outs happen from misplaying these hands.

Anyhow, I would suggest reading some material and adjusting your approach. You are probably not losing much with your big pairs. It is very likely that you lose in more marginal situations (AQ, AJ, 66-99, and so forth) and that this is what is causing you to lose in general. Perhaps even avoid turbos until you adjust to playing correctly. Learn about equity, ICM, stuff like that, bubble-play, and SAGE for heads-up when you get that far.

Re: Online beginner
 

Thanks, I am doing lots of reading. It's my post-flop play that needs the real work, I suspect. I tend to get in a lot of pissing matches, or think that I am being bluffed, then end up going all-in only to find that the person was merely making a value bet. :P

Re: Online beginner
 

Obviously learn some bankroll management to even out your wins/losses.

Personally for me when I first began back in '04, after reading, I thought SNGs were the best to go. Soon after (about 10 SNGs played) I realized that patience would be hard to come by to really make money doing these. I soon made the switch to cash/ring games and have not looked back.

If you are having trouble with patience in SNGs, I would recommend trying out some cash/ring games of NLHE (or the game of your choice) to see how your 'patience factor' applies to those. They definitely keep you emersed (spelling?) in the game and on your toes at all time (providing you're a 'good' player and are analyzing every hand and player without having cards and playing in the hand) so you will not have a lack of patience there.

Otherwise, I would simply advise staying with the $5 SNGs if you prefer SNGs over cash games, I still would definitely try out the cash games first, try playing just one SNG with premium hands only such as 99+, AK, AQ and such. The exception to that would be position raises, which are very crucial to learning the SNG and mastering it. Playing blind may also help but I would probably try this out on the $1.25s or some other low buyin first to see if you can really play like this (not everybody can), but I can almost guarantee it will improve your game if you can (not ALWAYS though of course)

Any other questions you may have, I'd be happy to answer if you want to PM me or what not.

Re: Online beginner
 

[ QUOTE ]
well, i would say that you are a break even player
you have to learn how to beat the rake.
700 sng at %5 mean you pay $350 in rake
if you lost $400, that mean you lost $50 bux, because $350 are the rake paid to the house.
that is why alot people are break even player, to be a winning player, you must beat the rake
for SNG rake is 10%
so if you beat the SNG by 6%, you would still come out 4% in the red.

[/ QUOTE ]

SNG rake is not a fixed percentage. It can be as large as 20%, and as small as 5%. On PokerStars, $1 SNG has 20% rake, but $5 is 10% ($1+.20 and $5+.50).

Re: Online beginner
 

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Another problem I have is having a great hand, say AA, then seeing KK on the flop and being unable to lay the aces down, even if I know my oppenent has a K. It's like I'm paying to see his cards...

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Play more aggressively preflop then.

Until your postflop skills develop, play fewer hands before the flop, but raise the hands you do decide to play more preflop. This will help to cut down on the implied odds you offer. It will significantly reduce your post-flop mistakes.