4-way CB with 56s wheeeee
 

Comments on all streets appreciated.

Full Tilt Poker, $1/$2 NL Hold'em Cash Game, 6 Players
LegoPoker Hand History Converter

MP: $209.20
CO: $56.20
Hero (BTN): $222.30
SB: $65.75
BB: $210.30
UTG: $300.65

Pre-Flop: 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] dealt to Hero (BTN)
UTG calls $2, 2 folds, <font color="red">Hero raises to $10</font>, SB calls $9, BB calls $8, UTG calls $8

Flop: ($40) 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (4 Players)
SB checks, BB checks, UTG checks, <font color="red">Hero bets $30</font>, 2 folds, <font color="red">UTG raises to $84</font>, Hero calls $54

Turn: ($208) 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 Players)
<font color="red">UTG bets $90</font>, Hero folds

The thing is...if I hit the turn, I get paid off enough to make the flop call ok. But, I'm in RIO territory when he has a set with redraws, which I'm guessing he has ALOT.

Re: 4-way CB with 56s wheeeee
 

You have to stack him like every time for this to be profitable.

Might be good for metagame, though!

Re: 4-way CB with 56s wheeeee
 

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You have to stack him like every time for this to be profitable.

Might be good for metagame, though!

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I think I do stack him every time I hit. But, I think I get restacked on some rivers too.

PF and CB comments also welcome...

Re: 4-way CB with 56s wheeeee
 

I'd like to hear your thoughts on why you bet instead of checked? Not saying it's wrong just curious what your reasoning was.

Re: 4-way CB with 56s wheeeee
 

I think the CBet is fine, mostly because I think your bet just gets flatted a ton of the time, didn't this time. Meh.

I can see some good arguments for checking, though.

You MIGHT try betting less... but I think it'll get you in trouble here, since you don't really wanna deal with c/r bluffs in this spot. Might be sexy HU though.

Re: 4-way CB with 56s wheeeee
 

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I'd like to hear your thoughts on why you bet instead of checked? Not saying it's wrong just curious what your reasoning was.

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Well, with that flop I decide to rep a big pair with the CB. I don't think anyone is going to think I am messing around with it being 4-way and I should fold out all pairs 88, 7x, and lower. I think I have a decent chance to take it down on the flop. Plus, it gets me to the river for free usually if I get flat called.

Re: 4-way CB with 56s wheeeee
 

betting and checking both seem equally standard. once the two people fold and you get c/r'd, id shove a large portion of the time.

Re: 4-way CB with 56s wheeeee
 

i check this flop.

pf is standard. c-betting this flop isn't bad i just think we'll get played back at too many times for it to be the most optimal line, against 2 people i'd bet.

Re: 4-way CB with 56s wheeeee
 

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betting and checking both seem equally standard. once the two people fold and you get c/r'd, id shove a large portion of the time.

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We've cbet into 4 people and got c/r?? Why are we shoving, what do you think UTG is going to show up here with 56cc?!?!

EDIT

I'd also c/behind this flop and try and catch our d-gutter. Turns a horrible card....


is everyone putting utg solely on 33/99 poss 77?? Is this EVER air?!

if the turn is the 2 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] does this change anything?

Re: 4-way CB with 56s wheeeee
 

i think its a good spot to c/r with air b/c it looks strong. we've got an open ended straight draw, once we get here like this i think calling is pretty bad bc we have to fold on a blank turn. we're currently getting 3:1 on our money and we have some fold equity. yay variance.

Re: 4-way CB with 56s wheeeee
 

Man 5-10 is fun!

Full Tilt Poker, $5/$10 NL Hold'em Cash Game, 5 Players
LegoPoker Hand History Converter

Hero (BB): $1,008.75
UTG: $1,033
CO: $178.25
BTN: $1,110.25
SB: $290

Pre-Flop: 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] dealt to Hero (BB)
UTG folds, CO calls $10, 2 folds, Hero checks

Flop: ($25) 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 Players)
<font color="red">Hero bets $25</font>, CO calls $25

Turn: ($75) A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 Players)
<font color="red">Hero bets $55</font>, CO calls $55

River: ($185) 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 Players)
<font color="red">Hero bets $90</font>, CO calls $88.25 and is All-In

Results: $361.50 Pot ($3 Rake)
Hero showed 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (two pair, Nines and Sevens) and LOST (-$178.25 NET)
CO showed 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (two pair, Aces and Nines) and WON $358.50 (+$180.25 NET)

Re: 4-way CB with 56s wheeeee
 

With no reads how do we know he's capable of putting in this sort of c/r ?? Just wondering I always think i'm giving my opponents too much credit when I think like this because they always show up with 99/33.

Re: 4-way CB with 56s wheeeee
 

[ QUOTE ]
Man 5-10 is fun!

Full Tilt Poker, $5/$10 NL Hold'em Cash Game, 5 Players
LegoPoker Hand History Converter

Hero (BB): $1,008.75
UTG: $1,033
CO: $178.25
BTN: $1,110.25
SB: $290

Pre-Flop: 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] dealt to Hero (BB)
UTG folds, CO calls $10, 2 folds, Hero checks

Flop: ($25) 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 Players)
<font color="red">Hero bets $25</font>, CO calls $25

Turn: ($75) A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 Players)
<font color="red">Hero bets $55</font>, CO calls $55

River: ($185) 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 Players)
<font color="red">Hero bets $90</font>, CO calls $88.25 and is All-In

Results: $361.50 Pot ($3 Rake)
Hero showed 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (two pair, Nines and Sevens) and LOST (-$178.25 NET)
CO showed 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (two pair, Aces and Nines) and WON $358.50 (+$180.25 NET)

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nice addition to this discussion buddy.

Re: 4-way CB with 56s wheeeee
 

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You have to stack him like every time for this to be profitable.


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I think my rule-of-thumb maths must be wrong. I thought that we are nearly getting direct odds and that we don't need much in implied to make that up.

Re: 4-way CB with 56s wheeeee
 

lol whoops, wrong thread, as for the hand I think I agree that betting and checking the flop are neutral EV and should be done at about the smae frequency. I think I prefer checking here because of the number of people, it makes it more likely someone has somethign even though it's a dry board

Re: 4-way CB with 56s wheeeee
 

I take a freebie here because no one will see our hand coming.

Re: 4-way CB with 56s wheeeee
 

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You have to stack him like every time for this to be profitable.


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I think my rule-of-thumb maths must be wrong. I thought that we are nearly getting direct odds and that we don't need much in implied to make that up.

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We're getting 5.2:1 implied, and we're only 4.9:1 to hit our draw on the next card.

Re: 4-way CB with 56s wheeeee
 

I like checking our double gutter back here. Gives us a free card and keeps the pot smaller, so if someone bets into us on the turn our implied odds are bigger becasue there is more left in our stack to bet or raise on the river

Re: 4-way CB with 56s wheeeee
 

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You have to stack him like every time for this to be profitable.


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I think my rule-of-thumb maths must be wrong. I thought that we are nearly getting direct odds and that we don't need much in implied to make that up.

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We're getting 5.2:1 implied, and we're only 4.9:1 to hit our draw on the next card.

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If these are the odds we need to fold the flop even if we get him all-in on the turn 100% when we hit.

Re: 4-way CB with 56s wheeeee
 

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i think its a good spot to c/r with air b/c it looks strong. we've got an open ended straight draw, once we get here like this i think calling is pretty bad bc we have to fold on a blank turn. we're currently getting 3:1 on our money and we have some fold equity. yay variance.

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shoving this is suicide w/o a significant amount of history

Re: 4-way CB with 56s wheeeee
 

agreed, but I think I'd still rather shove than call merely cuz the odds suck against his range(if he's bluffing at all, or has 8T and moves us off our hand or something like that). I think fold is prolly best though.

Re: 4-way CB with 56s wheeeee
 

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i think its a good spot to c/r with air b/c it looks strong. we've got an open ended straight draw, once we get here like this i think calling is pretty bad bc we have to fold on a blank turn. we're currently getting 3:1 on our money and we have some fold equity. yay variance.

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You may think it's a good spot to c/r bluff but you and villain don't think alike.

Re: 4-way CB with 56s wheeeee
 

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agreed, but I think I'd still rather shove than call merely cuz the odds suck against his range(if he's bluffing at all, or has 8T and moves us off our hand or something like that). I think fold is prolly best though.

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carrot wins!

I love how the biggest lagtard and the biggest nit in SSNL are starting to agree with each other quite often &lt;3

Re: 4-way CB with 56s wheeeee
 

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agreed, but I think I'd still rather shove than call merely cuz the odds suck against his range(if he's bluffing at all, or has 8T and moves us off our hand or something like that). I think fold is prolly best though.

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odds suck yes, but your FE is close to none here. So fold yea it probably best

Re: 4-way CB with 56s wheeeee
 

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You have to stack him like every time for this to be profitable.


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I think my rule-of-thumb maths must be wrong. I thought that we are nearly getting direct odds and that we don't need much in implied to make that up.

[/ QUOTE ]
We're getting 5.2:1 implied, and we're only 4.9:1 to hit our draw on the next card.

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If you assume he has a set, we may have better odds!

Re: 4-way CB with 56s wheeeee
 

Yeah why are you guys not all jumping up and down and saying shove. I shove there on the flop all the time. Sometimes they fold, sometimes you get there. whee

Re: 4-way CB with 56s wheeeee
 

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Yeah why are you guys not all jumping up and down and saying shove. I shove there on the flop all the time. Sometimes they fold, sometimes you get there. whee

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because its really bad in a vacuum and nothing mentioned in the OP gives us any reason to think it wouldnt be really bad here

edit: agree w/ carrot that its better than calling, which doesnt make it any less bad though.

Re: 4-way CB with 56s wheeeee
 

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You have to stack him like every time for this to be profitable.


[/ QUOTE ]

I think my rule-of-thumb maths must be wrong. I thought that we are nearly getting direct odds and that we don't need much in implied to make that up.

[/ QUOTE ]
We're getting 5.2:1 implied, and we're only 4.9:1 to hit our draw on the next card.

[/ QUOTE ]
If you assume he has a set, we may have better odds!

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If by 'better', you mean 'worse', then ok.

Re: 4-way CB with 56s wheeeee
 

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You have to stack him like every time for this to be breakeven.


Might be good for metagame, though!

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FMP

Re: 4-way CB with 56s wheeeee
 

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You have to stack him like every time for this to be profitable.


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I think my rule-of-thumb maths must be wrong. I thought that we are nearly getting direct odds and that we don't need much in implied to make that up.

[/ QUOTE ]
We're getting 5.2:1 implied, and we're only 4.9:1 to hit our draw on the next card.

[/ QUOTE ]
If you assume he has a set, we may have better odds!

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EV vs set:
0.17*0.78*282 - 0.83*54 - 0.17*0.22*182 = -$14

EV vs a hand drawing dead if we hit (still stacking off 100%):
0.17*282 - 0.83*54 = +$3


So if villain has a set 18% of the time (or more) we can't ever call profitable. Even if he always stacks off when we hit. Unless we're counting on getting a free turn sometimes which seems unlikely.

Turning a fd will probably boost the ev of a call a bit. Not too much though.


Cliff notes: Calling is bad.

Re: 4-way CB with 56s wheeeee
 

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Cliff notes: Calling is bad.

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Ya, I agree in hindsight (and probably at the table too, heh)...and I guess the flop CB is meh, w/e, either way so I guess that's that.