Will 2+2 have a response or position on the AP fiasco?
 

It's only a matter of time before posters start to ask what 2+2 will do about the AP fiasco. Several want to know if 2+2 will stop accepting ads with AP's logo on it from affiliates or direct advertising if it ever comes up. Some have asked in threads about an official response from Mason etc. It might be time for 2+2 to be thinking of where they stand on this disaster. Several affiliates have already stopped promoting AP and UB and expect there to be more blacklistings.

Re: Will 2+2 have a response or position on the AP fiasco?
 

PA,

lol?

c

Re: Will 2+2 have a response or position on the AP fiasco?
 

[ QUOTE ]
PA,

lol?

c

[/ QUOTE ]

Just a heads up that the questions are coming from posters. Hopefully most of the affiliates will do the right thing anyway. BW and Pokerlisting sites have already dumped AP/UB and CM has already rogued them. I'm sure more is to come. I'm just curious if 2+2 will come up with a position for when posters start asking directly.

Re: Will 2+2 have a response or position on the AP fiasco?
 

Not that this means anything, but I'm pretty sure P5's is gonna stop allowing them to advertise as well.

Re: Will 2+2 have a response or position on the AP fiasco?
 

PA,

Is there a post somewhere w/ a good summary of what are now commonly accepted as the "facts" of the case for those of us who haven't been following this saga?

Re: Will 2+2 have a response or position on the AP fiasco?
 

[ QUOTE ]
PA,

Is there a post somewhere w/ a good summary of what are now commonly accepted as the "facts" of the case for those of us who haven't been following this saga?

[/ QUOTE ]

The second post here is a good cliff note

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showfl...=0#Post12516934

Here is the long story

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showfl...e=0&fpart=1

I'm not sure if NWP ever took AP advertising but I know they have said they will keep this as a top story on their site and certainly not take advertising from them.

Re: Will 2+2 have a response or position on the AP fiasco?
 

Adanthar through his contacts has nailed down a suspected user of the cheating accounts and the person stealing everyone's money: the owner of Absolute Poker.

Link

Re: Will 2+2 have a response or position on the AP fiasco?
 

The more I read about this, the more I agree that there should be a response from admin.

Re: Will 2+2 have a response or position on the AP fiasco?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Adanthar through his contacts has nailed down a suspected user of the cheating accounts and the person stealing everyone's money: the owner of Absolute Poker.

Link

[/ QUOTE ]

wheeeeeeeeeeee

Re: Will 2+2 have a response or position on the AP fiasco?
 

this is fairly important, so i'll jump in here:

7 accounts tied to that IP address (not to be making public, people, unless necessary):

Alexandra@AP
BuckWild
hollister83
koko333
pokermachine
ruffreitrud
the watchdog

member numbers (i don't know if they're respective or not, but who cares):

8545
56805
76641
87837
107603
114830
114856

Re: Will 2+2 have a response or position on the AP fiasco?
 

can we at least say there are 7 2p2 accounts tied to this user?

Re: Will 2+2 have a response or position on the AP fiasco?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Adanthar through his contacts has nailed down a suspected user of the cheating accounts and the person stealing everyone's money: the owner of Absolute Poker.

Link

[/ QUOTE ]
Wow.

iron, possibly your finest link ever.

Re: Will 2+2 have a response or position on the AP fiasco?
 

you can say anything you want. i have no money in ap, and don't think that this is going to collapse the online poker world, but if there's anyone (like adanthar) who wants to keep things relatively quiet for investigatory purposes, i would defer to them.

Re: Will 2+2 have a response or position on the AP fiasco?
 

Hi Everyone:

First off we don't currently have any ads from Absolute Poker.

Second, there are many claims and counter claims and we don't know exactly what is true and what isn't. Therefore, I don't feel it is appropriate for Two Plus Two to make an official comment one way or the other.

Best wishes,
Mason

Re: Will 2+2 have a response or position on the AP fiasco?
 

It would be a bad idea to respond now, given that nothing is really for sure.

However,

Given that people are apparently taking interviews with bluff and cardplayer, it's very likely that 2p2 is going to be mentioned, if only because the threads that went over this happened here. I'd at least get a prettty rocking "no comment" ready.

Re: Will 2+2 have a response or position on the AP fiasco?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Given that people are apparently taking interviews with bluff and cardplayer

[/ QUOTE ]
Where did you hear that? I don't think I've seen it in the main threads.

Re: Will 2+2 have a response or position on the AP fiasco?
 

iron,

It's in the main threads.

Nat has a % of Bluff and is talking to them.

CP has contacted Wako Kid and Nat as well.

Re: Will 2+2 have a response or position on the AP fiasco?
 

Interesting aside: here are the most recent numbers I pulled on BBV:

301 registered and 421 anonymous users are browsing this forum.

722, wow. Isn't that pushing near where Legislation was during the UIGEA stuff? I'm guessing that forum averages around 150 users or so in the middle of a weekday.

Re: Will 2+2 have a response or position on the AP fiasco?
 

koko333 moved to Costa Rica several months ago. Prior to moving he was deeply in debt and thinking about declaring bankruptcy. After moving to Costa Rica it appears he was living with poster CostaRicaBill. About 90% of CostaRicaBill's posts pertain to AP. The above is what I have surmised reading both users posts.

Thank you,

Jim Kuhn
Catfish4u
[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

Re: Will 2+2 have a response or position on the AP fiasco?
 

This appears to be koko333's myspace page here. It appears he is close friends with a Chris that claims to own pokersourceonline and went to high school in Grand Rapids MI. Chris (Nichols?) has also moved to Costa Rica. Chris has his myspace page here.

koko333 appears to be a guy named Shawn Thornton. Shawn went from deeply in debt and making $5-$6 per hour in Costa Rica to wining and dining the ladies in a few months. I wonder where he got the money.............

Thank you,

Jim Kuhn
Catfish4u
[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

Re: Will 2+2 have a response or position on the AP fiasco?
 

Koko333 (Shawn) works for Bonuswhores.com a site which blacklised AP already. I'm pretty sure he took over my job when we all walked away in December 2006. He is not relevent to any of this AP mess. The others will require more research.

Costaricabill is a large AP affiliate close to the AP guys. He certainly knows all involved but I would seriously doubt he has any involvement. It's likely he just posted from AP.

Re: Will 2+2 have a response or position on the AP fiasco?
 

I think Shawn worked for AP last year. That is why his posting ip showed AP. Costaricabill was living with Shawn several months ago. Neither is probably involved with this mess but probably know some of the parties that are. I was just digging via the AP ip associated accounts that were listed in this thread.

Thank you,

Jim Kuhn
Catfish4u
[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

Re: Will 2+2 have a response or position on the AP fiasco?
 

tomorrow, the freakanomics blog will have a piece (again) on the situation, and will quote/link to a couple of the latest threads here.

Re: Will 2+2 have a response or position on the AP fiasco?
 

[ QUOTE ]
tomorrow, the freakanomics blog will have a piece (again) on the situation, and will quote/link to a couple of the latest threads here.

[/ QUOTE ]

Link to blog, please.

Re: Will 2+2 have a response or position on the AP fiasco?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
tomorrow, the freakanomics blog will have a piece (again) on the situation, and will quote/link to a couple of the latest threads here.

[/ QUOTE ]

Link to blog, please.

[/ QUOTE ]

http://freakonomics.blogs.nytimes.com/20...lown-wide-open/

Re: Will 2+2 have a response or position on the AP fiasco?
 

http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f236/tepop/ap.jpg

Re: Will 2+2 have a response or position on the AP fiasco?
 

[ QUOTE ]
http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f236/tepop/ap.jpg

[/ QUOTE ]

thats an affiliate ad, we cant expect 2+2 to control that, when Mason said there was no ads I think he meant directly from UB or Absolute. Mat could send an email advising all affiliates look into the Absolute Poker rumors so they can make their own decisions of course.

Re: Will 2+2 have a response or position on the AP fiasco?
 

Most probably won't make that distinction, though. They'll just note that AP and their logo are still being displayed on 2+2, advising you to click for a sweet deal. People will still want to point fingers at us even if it's indirect.

Re: Will 2+2 have a response or position on the AP fiasco?
 

TT,

"thats an affiliate ad, we cant expect 2+2 to control that"

Huh? Of course users should expect 2+2 to control that.

Re: Will 2+2 have a response or position on the AP fiasco?
 

we should not have absolute on our website period, even as an affiliate

Re: Will 2+2 have a response or position on the AP fiasco?
 

it's rakereduction's banner. I'll ask chuck to exclude that one from the rotation.

Re: Will 2+2 have a response or position on the AP fiasco?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Most probably won't make that distinction, though. They'll just note that AP and their logo are still being displayed on 2+2, advising you to click for a sweet deal. People will still want to point fingers at us even if it's indirect.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree people will point fingers, but the numbers of people who will do the pointing are small compared to the overall user base.

I could not ethically ask 2+2 to walk away from a middle-man affiliate advertiser without a replacement source of advertising revenue, thats dipping into the company's wallet while taking a leap of faith since there still is not 100% conclusive evidence (I admit the evidence is becoming rather good). Of course it makes sense to advise the affiliate that there is a conflict of interest advertising Absolute Poker in the eyes of the 2+2 users, and that it would be in everyone's best interest that they change their advertising creative to remove mention of Absolute Poker but I don't think 2+2 should force the issue - YET.

PS: seems like Mat's on it already.

Re: Will 2+2 have a response or position on the AP fiasco?
 

TT,

Your argument doesn't make any sense. The fact that there's a middle-man affiliate involved is irrelevant. If 2+2 decides the right move is to not accept AP advertising, then it doesn't matter if it's direct or through a partner.

Re: Will 2+2 have a response or position on the AP fiasco?
 

[ QUOTE ]
TT,

Your argument doesn't make any sense. The fact that there's a middle-man affiliate involved is irrelevant. If 2+2 decides the right move is to not accept AP advertising, then it doesn't matter if it's direct or through a partner.

[/ QUOTE ]

tell that to ESPN, they still accept poker.net sites. The evidence is damming, but the results aren't final yet, lets not turn 2+2 Publishing into the online poker police enforcement department when the forum members discover something that they can enforce on their own. 2+2 has time in my opinion, rushing to a conclusion could do more harm than waiting for definitive results. Its only time... we have lots of it.

My position was and still remains that 2+2 should not rush to a conclusion.

Re: Will 2+2 have a response or position on the AP fiasco?
 

TT,

You completely missed the point.

Re: Will 2+2 have a response or position on the AP fiasco?
 

Rakereduction can easily remove the AP part of that animated banner. It would take all of 2 minutes.

Re: Will 2+2 have a response or position on the AP fiasco?
 

TT have you followed the AP developments? How can you say it's not 100% conclusive?

If I were in charge of 2p2 I'd already have a 0-AP policy, and only if/when AP rectifies this situation satisfactorily would I reconsider that stance.

As a major player in the poker world, you cannot show any support for a site that has knowingly covered up this scandal and repeatedly lied and lied again to cover up more lies. Honesty and integrity drive internet gambling, since without it sites cannot exist.

Re: Will 2+2 have a response or position on the AP fiasco?
 

they agreed to this already.

presumably it's only temporary. they didn't object.

Re: Will 2+2 have a response or position on the AP fiasco?
 

LOL. I saw this in the mod forum after reading this thread.

http://www.rakebreak.com/images/Rtwoplustwo.gif

Re: Will 2+2 have a response or position on the AP fiasco?
 

[ QUOTE ]
LOL. I saw this in the mod forum after reading this thread.

http://www.rakebreak.com/images/Rtwoplustwo.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

There are probably more too. Most rakeback affiliates stil offer AP [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img].