Sleep
 

like most college students, I have a pretty bad sleeping schedule. Sometimes I go to sleep at midnight, sometimes I go to sleep at 4 in the morning. The problem now though, is that I can almost never get up in the morning (8-10 in the morning). In High School, I got by on 5-6 hrs/sleep a week for 4 years and would just crash on the weekends, but now in college I guess I'm just a lot lazier and just flat out a night owl. How can I change this? is it possible that some people are just not morning people? on weekdays, I usually go to sleep before 2 in the morning so its not even that bad, but I just find myself turning off my alarm and going right back to sleep every single day.

Another thing is I'm not sure how many hours of sleep I need. I always hear the 8 hour rule but whenever I do get 8 hours I'm still tired when I wake up, etc. However, when I sleep for 10-12 hours I'll still be tired too. Sooo... any suggestions?

Re: Sleep
 

Dude, I'm having this same problem. I got up in high school everyday fine, but I'm guessing you also had your parents bothering you about getting up for that. I'm going to schedule all my classes for after 1pm next semester though.

Re: Sleep
 

i've made some posts and there have been some threads about sleep, i did a lot of sleep research as an undergrad. in one class, a sleep seminar, we had to keep a sleep journal.

i slept an avg. of 10.2 hours per night, with an average bedtime of 1:45am and an average wake time of around noon.

some people, most people, do best with about 9 hours of sleep. and yes, changing your cycle messes it up.

Re: Sleep
 

sorry, don't want to be rude, but what are you trying to say? just that I should get a good sleeping schedule down? the problem is, I already do kindof have one, I go to sleep around 1-2 AM, and its hard for me to wake up before 11-12 in the morning, which is 9-10 hours of sleep.

Re: Sleep
 

do you take anything to fall asleep? because most sleep aids dont allow you to get REM sleep, which is the sleep you really need.

Re: Sleep
 

I don't know anything about sleep aids, but I know that if you didn't get any REM sleep you would be feeling it in a big way, so I dunno if that's true about sleep aids.

REM sleep isn't the kind you need, your body wants all the types and it hasn't been established that REM is "the important one" or anything like that.

OP,
We don't really know ish about sleep, it's a new science. IMO no one can say how much the average person "needs", "they" probably just take the average number people get, add a few hours since most people are tired, and pass that info out.

I would say you don't NEED any certain number, just whatever makes you feel good. If you want to restrict it, set an alarm so that you wake up in 6-8 hours, you'll be fine. If you feel better with more, fine. You can, however, slowly reduce the number of hours you get with about the same amount of energy and satisfaction of sleep. So if you were getting 9 hours you can then set your alarm for 8:45, etc.

Are you taking any drugs such as caffeine?

Re: Sleep
 

i dont take any aids, or any caffeine or anything. its just, I feel my whole sleeping thing is just messed up. For example, this last weekend, I went to bed at 3 AM sat. night and woke up at 1 PM Sunday afternoon and still felt tired/sleepy the entire day and then got more energy as the night progressed (this is probably a good sign that I am a night owl, which I definitely am). However, I tried to get the typical 8 hours yesterday so I went to bed at 1 but still could not for the life of me get up at 9 AM when my alarm went off.

have people actually tried sleep doctors? do they actually work?

Re: Sleep
 

I just stopped attending classes, slept when i was tired, and woke up when i was not. Ended up pretty close to a 28 hour day with 9 hours sleep. 28 works out well because 6 x 28= 7 x 24.

Re: Sleep
 

Yeah I get into that bxb.

SC,

I mean, your going to feel tired/energetic at weird intervals if you are sleeping like a crazy person. I am 5x as bad as you but I don't really have a problem with anything.

If you want to try to feel more consistently normal I would just suggest:
1. Go to sleep at 2AM every night no matter what, if you are not tired, lay in bed with the lights off.
2. Wake up at 11AM or whatever every day. Get 3 alarm clocks set at 10 minutes apart from one another at different parts of the room. Or buy this and this lol
http://www.nandahome.com/products.clocky.html
http://www.newlaunches.com/archives/...larm_clock.php

Re: Sleep
 

The problem is not that you're getting X hours of sleep and still feeling tired.

The problem is that you're not getting X hours of sleep on a consistent basis.

Try putting yourself on a solid sleep schedule, i.e. going to sleep everyday at midnight and setting the alarm for 8. It's probably not a big deal to slack a bit on the weekends, but the general idea is to go to sleep and wake up at around the same time every day.

In the beginning this might be hard, I would suggest that on your first night stay up until whenever you want until you're tired enough to sleep. Then, set your alarm for 8-10 or whatever and make sure you get up at that time. Later that night it should be easier to go to sleep at your target time and wake up etc..

Also, avoid things like TV and computers right before bed because they can make it harder to sleep/deteriorate sleep quality. If I may ask, when you're up late at night are you constantly watching TV or on the computer? I would be surprised if you weren't.

Re: Sleep
 

sometimes its computer, sometimes its tv, or sometimes its homework (like right now).

i dont understand how some people literally do 6 hour days 5 days a week with no naps, its insane

Re: Sleep
 

Sounds like you might just be lazy.

Re: Sleep
 

Just get out of bed and make some coffee. Or don't go to class (not a bad idea). Also 10 hrs of sleep is probably too much and will actually make you feel more tired then 8-9.

Re: Sleep
 

That's some good sn creation there sir, I have much to learn.

Re: Sleep
 

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REM sleep isn't the kind you need, your body wants all the types and it hasn't been established that REM is "the important one" or anything like that.


[/ QUOTE ]

You'll die without REM sleep, thats not "important" or anything.

Re: Sleep
 

when you get 10 hours of sleep and feel tired, it's not because 10 hours isn't a lot. it's because you haven't made up your "sleep debt." let's say you need 8 hours every day, but lately you've been getting only 6 hours. if you were all caught up a week ago, and got 6 hours of sleep the last 7 days, you'd be (6-8)x7 hours of sleep behind. in other words, you have to make up 14 more hours before your sleep debt is "paid off" and you won't feel tired. so if you got 10 hours of sleep every day for a week, you'd be caught up and would feel great.

at least, that's what the research at my school is suggesting. so just try and catch up on sleep for a while - once you're caught up and get 8 hours (or however much you need) every day, you should be fine.

also, just train yourself to get out of bed in the morning. it's hard, but once you get the habit down of climbing out of bed when the alarm goes off, it becomes second nature and you won't find yourself hitting snooze 5 or 6 times.

Re: Sleep
 

I don't buy into the sleep debt thing unless I have months of it built up from early childhood. I can sleep 10+ hours a night for 2 weeks and still be tired. Does anyone have an explanation for that? I almost never drink caffeine and don't take anything to aid my sleep if thats important.

Re: Sleep
 

Duke/CalledDown,
The accumulation of sleep debt indefinitely, at least, has been proven to not be plausible. So it may be a factor but the childhood build up notion is wrong.

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[ QUOTE ]

REM sleep isn't the kind you need, your body wants all the types and it hasn't been established that REM is "the important one" or anything like that.


[/ QUOTE ]

You'll die without REM sleep, thats not "important" or anything.

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Slappz,
That's never been proven, and I'm not sure that there is any reason to believe that. Can you link to any credible source that says that?

Re: Sleep
 

Okay, say I get a normal schedule going, which I feel like I do. I have mandatory classes to attend at 8AM on MW and 930AM on T TH.

However, the weekends screw me up because I stay out until like 3 or 4 and sometimes even later drinking.

What's the best way to get back on track?

Re: Sleep
 

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i dont understand how some people literally do 6 hour days 5 days a week with no naps, its insane

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don't do any activity during the day, eat a lot of calories, drink a lot of caffeine.

OP,
my suggestion is to explore the wonderful world of naps.

Re: Sleep
 

im in HS, i work on a biphasic sleep cycle, i sleep from about 2:30am-7am and 4pm-6:30pm, its what i found works for me, maybe you could try it.

Re: Sleep
 

That's pretty interesting. How did you get into that? I.e. was it a concious choice like you were reading about polyphasic sleep and thought it might work, or did you drift into it somehow?

Re: Sleep
 

[ QUOTE ]
That's pretty interesting. How did you get into that? I.e. was it a concious choice like you were reading about polyphasic sleep and thought it might work, or did you drift into it somehow?

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i really have problems sleeping early, i just started going to sleep later because id get home from school and be exhausted. i realized that i will never get any work done while im tired i started taking naps, which started getting longer as i stayed up later, til it got to this point that just works for me. i know im not gonna get any work done when i get home, so why not use that time sleeping and be more awake later? i've tried to get ot a normal sleep cycle but to get 8 hours id have to be sleeping at 11pm, and i just cannot manage that. ive always had immense trouble sleeping, never got any professional help but it takes me 30minute-2hours from when i decide to go to bed and when i actually sleep

Re: Sleep
 

2 am-8am weekdays, weekends like 4 am - 4pm

Re: Sleep
 

just go to bed half the days

I use this, it's awesome... it's actually ANTI-sleep so I don't know why I'm posting it. However - from a different perspective, it allows you to feel fully rested. Case in point, I did a project last night til 6 am. My class is at 9am. I had a dose of modafanil (from above link) and have woken up refreshed. Usually I crash after the class to like 1 pm, but I'm fine now - it's pretty cool.

Re: Sleep
 

[ QUOTE ]
just go to bed half the days

I use this, it's awesome... it's actually ANTI-sleep so I don't know why I'm posting it. However - from a different perspective, it allows you to feel fully rested. Case in point, I did a project last night til 6 am. My class is at 9am. I had a dose of modafanil (from above link) and have woken up refreshed. Usually I crash after the class to like 1 pm, but I'm fine now - it's pretty cool.

[/ QUOTE ]
your god

Re: Sleep
 

freshman year in college i had noticed that my sleep schedule was sucking. somehow i got myself to get eight hours of sleep for two weeks. my grades were great and my focus was at its best. obv, being in college, this routine didnt last. between all the drinking, poker, and killing time with roomates and girlfriend, i never sleep during the week. average night i goto sleep at 3 to 3:30am. wake up at 8:45 for class. I have been doing this since freshman year and am a senior now. get a lot more sleep on weekend. even during the summer, i can never fall asleep before three. even when i have to get up for work.

Re: Sleep
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
just go to bed half the days

I use this, it's awesome... it's actually ANTI-sleep so I don't know why I'm posting it. However - from a different perspective, it allows you to feel fully rested. Case in point, I did a project last night til 6 am. My class is at 9am. I had a dose of modafanil (from above link) and have woken up refreshed. Usually I crash after the class to like 1 pm, but I'm fine now - it's pretty cool.

[/ QUOTE ]
your god

[/ QUOTE ]

I dunno, suggesting a controlled substance that people cant obtain seems kinda meh.

Re: Sleep
 

these sleep threads are always hillarious with people throwing around the 'you die without REM' and 'sleep debt' stuff.

anyhoo one thing i'd look at is improving your quality of sleep. Pretty easy to research it. Also try things like exercising in the morning and see if that helps.

Another thing you can try is napping. I forget who said it, maybe claudio sampi, but having a 20 minute nap during the afternoon can take 60 minutes off ur night time sleep time. Imo nappying is the easiest change to make if you want to cutdown on sleep time.

Re: Sleep
 

Whenever i slip into the wrong sleeping patterns, i reset them by staying awake. Often, i slip into the 3 or 4 am to 2pm cycle. Instead of falling asleep at 4 am, I will stay awake all of the day until about 9 or 10 pm. You will be extremely tired the whole day and probably useleess, but you will have no problem falling asleep at a "decent" time.
Now that your getting up at 9 am-ish, after 14 hours of being awake, your body will be ready to sleep by 11pm.

If you think about it, this is the same concept that yeilded the later sleeping cycle. One night, you stayed up later than usual(to study for a test or party or w/e.) pushing back your normal bedtime. This caused your normal time that you awake to be push backed. Since you cannot voluntarily go to sleep when your not tired (unlike your ability to voluntarily stay awake when you are), you get stuck into that later sleep cycle.

Of course, this would all be a waste of time if you were to disrupt the "normal cycle". I suggest you set up a routine and stick to it.

Re: Sleep
 

In high school when I wasn't playing basketball, I had a bi-phasic sleep cycle that my parents got mad as hell at me for having. Slept from 1-7 AM and 3-6PM. Not really good if you want to start participating in school activities and stuff, which I didn't for a lot of my time at school.

Re: Sleep
 

exercise every day. i exercise for an hour every day (jump rope, do pushups etc) and i'm able to get by on 5-6 hrs of sleep without a problem. i rarely ever feel tired.

Re: Sleep
 

yo, op, you're just a lazy bastard. I am too. Holler.


Cereally, it sucks. If you cared enough about school you'd get up no matter how tired you are. But who wants to go to schoo yo? I havn't been to class in like a week. I hate myself for it, really. I'm going to go tomorrow though, no matter what.

Re: Sleep
 

do you guys ever NOT feel like [censored] when you wake up regardless of how much you slept?

I have now discovered that I almost always feel either one of these or a combination: still tired/groggy, hungry, thirsty, awake but still wanting to go back to sleep.

Re: Sleep
 

I have a 9:05am class and wake up at 8:15am. I used to get up and take a shower and be ready to go. Now I sleep in until 8:45am, don't take a shower, get changed, and just go to class. I always feel tired.

Sometimes I feel like crap and I think it's from being dehydrated. So I try to drink some water before I go to sleep and then I have to piss early in the morning before it's time for me to get up.

I think the military has ruined my sleeping habits because I need at least 8.5-9hours of sleep to feel refreshed.

Re: Sleep
 

[ QUOTE ]
do you guys ever NOT feel like [censored] when you wake up regardless of how much you slept?

I have now discovered that I almost always feel either one of these or a combination: still tired/groggy, hungry, thirsty, awake but still wanting to go back to sleep.

[/ QUOTE ]

all the [censored] time

Re: Sleep
 

I start each day at either 8 or 9, Im usually good for my first class but have to get a coke afterwards so I dont doze off in calc, which i have everyday at 10.

Re: Sleep
 

SC,

I have the exact same problem, too. My sleep schedule has been messed up for I don't know how long. I think I've permanently become a night person. Even if I go to sleep early and wake up early at like 8 or 9 after 8 hours of sleep, I'll be way more tired than if I got 8 hours and woke up at 11 or 12. I recently dropped out of school, though, to make poker a full-time career. With that said, I guess the hours don't really matter then, as long as I'm fully awake for 16 or so.

I've been trying to get on a good sleep schedule lately by incorporating exercuse into my routine. That really is a good suggestion; exercise makes a big difference.