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live misclick v. thetakeover 25/50 nl LIVE, 300bb deep...
Note: We are playing 7-2 for 200 bucks, if that affects anything.
Private game. Game is 7 handed, effective stack size 15k. Average raise size in this game is anywhere from 300-500 generally preflop, there has sometimes been a straddle, but not during this hand. Nick has been playing pretty high gear, and has shown down a bluff earlier in the night. The only hand we have played against each other so far was when he raised btn to 300, I called from SB with 77, flop 883, chk call 600, turn 2, chk chk, river 2, I checked, he bet 1100 and I paid off his 1010. Not exactly sure how he views me, he probably thinks I'm decent. UTG, a loose, active player raises to 225, this is an unusually small raise, and I wasn't exactly sure what it meant, I assumed a pretty weak hand (I think he would make it bigger with a stronger hand to discourage multiple callers). Nick immediately makes it 800 to go utg+2. He reraises more than most of the other players preflop in this game, probably has something like 30/20 vpip 7 handed. I am sitting on 15k, he has me covered, I look down at JJ directly to his left in the hijack. What is the best play here and why? I have not 4 bet him this session, the only time I ever 4 bet him was another session when I did it with AK and I got it in v. his AK for 17k each pre. I elect to just call. Is this poor? Surprisingly, the btn, also a more frequent reraiser, cold calls. I am not sure what the btns range is here, but it's probably something like 77-QQ, AQ+. He is likely to 4-bet AK, KK+, but maybe not. Nick's range is probably generally tight when he is doing it v. an utg raiser, however, the utg's small raise size may have been interpreted by Nick as weakness, as it was by me. UTG folds. Flop is 10108 two spades, I have JsJx. Nick checks. What is your action and why? If I am betting here, it would be partially a value bet, and partially an information bet. I am not sure my hand can withstand a raise from either the BTN, or a reraise if Nick checked. However, I thought it would be fairly hard for either of them to raise without a hand that beats mine. I decided to bet 1700 for value, and go to throw out 3 500 chips, and 2 100 chips... Accidentally, I make it 1200 (two 500 chips, 2 100 chips). This is a small bet into the approx. 2600 pot. BTN folds. Nick thinks for a bit, and makes it 4k... If I call, I am going to have approximately 9k left after my call for the turn. What is the best play, and what is my plan for the rest of the hands. Or, alternatively, is this an easy fold? Thanks, dlpnyc21 |
flop was 1088....
flop was 1088, not 10108, sorry about that.
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Re: live misclick v. thetakeover 25/50 nl LIVE, 300bb deep...
I think the difference between 1200 and 1700 is pretty negligible, also I think the flop bet is pretty bad unless you are ready to play for stacks. Your range is sooooo polarized to JJ and QQ, maybe sometimes TT/worse pairs and AA/KK, but just about nothing else. Nick knows this and realizes he can probably get you off of anything except TT and 88, so it's an easy bluff for him to make, and you guys are deep enough so that he will almost surely fire the turn again (meaning, if you aren't folding, I would just call here).
Three-way flops play more timidly than heads-up ones so I think the best line is to check and hope for a blank turn (on which I'd happily check again). |
Re: live misclick v. thetakeover 25/50 nl LIVE, 300bb deep...
umm---fwiw i'd frequently cold call here with AA/KK (not sure if nick knows this). If I check this flop, and BTN bets and nick folds, I am forced to chk-call at least one street, and play the hand out of position. I think the hand is a lot easier to play if I bet this flop. Also, I can get called by worse hands/draws.
Another thing is I give a lot of free turn cards to the btn if I chk call flop. |
Re: live misclick v. thetakeover 25/50 nl LIVE, 300bb deep...
also, doesn't QQ bet this flop if you are nick, and AA/KK, while likely a part of his range, I think are less likely than average simply because he raised so fast preflop. He might have taken a bit more time with those hands, although I can't be sure. him checkraising here with qq also doesn't make much sense....
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Re: live misclick v. thetakeover 25/50 nl LIVE, 300bb deep...
given the questions in this hand, i feel betting the flop is excruciatingly terrible, like a monumental mistake
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Re: live misclick v. thetakeover 25/50 nl LIVE, 300bb deep...
[ QUOTE ]
given the questions in this hand, i feel betting the flop is excruciatingly terrible, like a monumental mistake [/ QUOTE ] why--i think it makes the hand a lot easier to play. If I bet 2k on this flop, I take control of the hand, can represent a wider range, etc., etc. If I don't bet this flop, I am forced to check-call btn down a lot, letting him play perfectly. Also, what would nick do with JJ, QQ on this flop? What hands would he play like this? I think me betting 1200 (small bet) also makes this hand a bit more interesting, and probably widens nick's cring range here. note: not to mention btn almost never has AA/KK/AK here. |
Re: live misclick v. thetakeover 25/50 nl LIVE, 300bb deep...
[ QUOTE ]
given the questions in this hand, i feel betting the flop is excruciatingly terrible, like a monumental mistake [/ QUOTE ] i agree. If we check and button bets, we are generally ahead of his range, and we can play accordingly. However, by betting, you're building a big pot and pretty much letting Nick play VERY well against our range. I'm not exactly excited about putting in 300BB with this hand on this board, and by betting the flop, thats what you're setting yourself up to do. |
Re: live misclick v. thetakeover 25/50 nl LIVE, 300bb deep...
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] given the questions in this hand, i feel betting the flop is excruciatingly terrible, like a monumental mistake [/ QUOTE ] why--i think it makes the hand a lot easier to play. If I bet 2k on this flop, I take control of the hand, [/ QUOTE ] why would betting 2k on the flop make it so much easier to play and give you so much more control of the hand than 1200 did? because betting 1200 certainly didnt help you at all did it? |
Re: live misclick v. thetakeover 25/50 nl LIVE, 300bb deep...
[ QUOTE ]
why--i think it makes the hand a lot easier to play. [/ QUOTE ] then why don't you know what to do here? |
Re: live misclick v. thetakeover 25/50 nl LIVE, 300bb deep...
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] given the questions in this hand, i feel betting the flop is excruciatingly terrible, like a monumental mistake [/ QUOTE ] why--i think it makes the hand a lot easier to play. If I bet 2k on this flop, I take control of the hand, [/ QUOTE ] why would betting 2k on the flop make it so much easier to play and give you so much more control of the hand than 1200 did? because betting 1200 certainly didnt help you at all did it? [/ QUOTE ] but 1700 might have! |
Re: live misclick v. thetakeover 25/50 nl LIVE, 300bb deep...
i think you, ZJ and garland should have a threesome.
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Re: live misclick v. thetakeover 25/50 nl LIVE, 300bb deep...
[ QUOTE ]
i think you, ZJ and garland should have a threesome. [/ QUOTE ] you're on fire |
Re: live misclick v. thetakeover 25/50 nl LIVE, 300bb deep...
yeah I think you should check the flop against a good, tricky player like Nick
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Re: live misclick v. thetakeover 25/50 nl LIVE, 300bb deep...
I think reraising preflop is way better than flat calling. You say "oh, well since UTG opened smaller than normal, his range is probably wider than usual for 3-betting an UTG raiser" and then you choose to flat call his reraise while still not really having much of an idea about where he's at.
I also agree with everyone else that betting that flop seems pretty bad, not becuase you might not have the best hand, but becuase of how your hand will look (pretty much exactly like QQ-77) and the difficult positions that Nick and the button might put you in becuase of this information that they have about your hand that you lack about theirs. |
Re: live misclick v. thetakeover 25/50 nl LIVE, 300bb deep...
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] given the questions in this hand, i feel betting the flop is excruciatingly terrible, like a monumental mistake [/ QUOTE ] why--i think it makes the hand a lot easier to play. If I bet 2k on this flop, I take control of the hand, [/ QUOTE ] why would betting 2k on the flop make it so much easier to play and give you so much more control of the hand than 1200 did? because betting 1200 certainly didnt help you at all did it? [/ QUOTE ] because betting 2k makes it more expensive for nick to cr this flop (he would need to make it something like 8k, making my decision shove/fold, rather than call/shove/fold. by betting 1200, which I think is definitely a lot different than 1700, it allows him to bluff cr more cheaply. Do you not think his range is wider here than if I bet 2k on this flop and he cr'd to like 7500? If I check and button bets, is my plan to donk a non AKQ non spade turn and get it in? Also it puts me in a lot of spots where I have to check call down here which I'm not sure is that fun v. the btn. What do you guys think nick's range is here given the way he played the hand? Thanks, sorry for all the questions, this was a confusing hand. Also, if you assume the flop bet was bad (which I do not necessarily agree with--I think my underbet was a lot worse), what do you do given action? Thanks, dlpnyc21 |
Re: live misclick v. thetakeover 25/50 nl LIVE, 300bb deep...
Agree w/ consensus... check flop.
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Re: live misclick v. thetakeover 25/50 nl LIVE, 300bb deep...
im going to save this thread a whole lot of time bc i don't want to study for this test.
your range for cc'ing pre is v narrow, something like 88-QQ AQs... then sometimes AA/KK, AK, 66-77, but no doubt the latter are less likely than the former. the button's range is probably similar. when nick checks the flop, he gets relative position back- that is, he likely views you as a player who will bet most of those hands on the flop "to find out where you're at" or for value, or whatever, becuase i've never played with you but from a dozen posts i've read of you on this board iknow thats what 'level' your'e on, so with an hour or more of play, nick likely knows the same. that said, nick's c-bet here should ahve a very low % of working. it's not a great board to c-bet if you'r enot goign to shove turn or river, because a TON of you and the buttons range either got really healthy and wants to play for stacks, or likes the flop enough to peel at least one street. becasue of that, i think nick's flop check looks good with nearly his entire range- that which wants to bluff, and that which wants to re evaluate (perhaps the only hand i would argue should lead this flop in nick's case is tens full). if he thinks one of you will bet, he'll have a ton of options with his entire range, air can raise or fold depending how he views the bet, the nuts can raise, medium strength hands can PC. when nick CRs, his hand is traditionally tens full+ or AA. concievably after yoru flop bet, he can CR two aces i suppose- expecting to play for stacks against any face card pocket pair; trying to paly it fast to get the most obviously, although as i said it's weighted to the two aces more than two queens- i can't imagine him CRing two queens here. this is a big long drawn out boring post about absolutely nothing other than when you bet, there are more combinations of the obvious hands that you have JJ, QQ, KK than the less obvious hands that you have TT, 88. betting the bottom range of your hand that doesn't want to put a bunch of bets in on a bunch of streets here just sucks really badly, and the fact taht you feel like you can't check it for some reason and awnt to define it just scares the bejesus out of me. |
Re: live misclick v. thetakeover 25/50 nl LIVE, 300bb deep...
[ QUOTE ]
Agree w/ consensus... check flop. [/ QUOTE ] ok...so flop is a check. what do you do, afterwards, given my awkward flop bet? what is nick's range given action? thanks, dlpnyc21 |
Re: live misclick v. thetakeover 25/50 nl LIVE, 300bb deep...
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im going to save this thread a whole lot of time... [/ QUOTE ] Good post |
Re: live misclick v. thetakeover 25/50 nl LIVE, 300bb deep...
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] Agree w/ consensus... check flop. [/ QUOTE ] ok...so flop is a check. what do you do, afterwards, given my awkward flop bet? what is nick's range given action? thanks, dlpnyc21 [/ QUOTE ] It depends. Are you willing to play for stacks here? (I don't think you should be) Is he ever slowing down on the turn with any of his range if you flat call? Would you ever bet a draw here? If so, would you get it AI on the flop against his range here? It's basically a big game of how you think he's gonna react to your moves. Your hand is pretty transparent and if you're not willing to stack off here, I'd be mostly folding on the flop and I guess sometimes flatting the flop and folding to a solid turn bet. |
Re: live misclick v. thetakeover 25/50 nl LIVE, 300bb deep...
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Agree w/ consensus... check flop. [/ QUOTE ] ok...so flop is a check. what do you do, afterwards, given my awkward flop bet? what is nick's range given action? thanks, dlpnyc21 [/ QUOTE ] It depends. Are you willing to play for stacks here? (I don't think you should be) Is he ever slowing down on the turn with any of his range if you flat call? Would you ever bet a draw here? If so, would you get it AI on the flop against his range here? It's basically a big game of how you think he's gonna react to your moves. Your hand is pretty transparent and if you're not willing to stack off here, I'd be mostly folding on the flop and I guess sometimes flatting the flop and folding to a solid turn bet. [/ QUOTE ] Don't think I would play for stacks here, I would most likely call and evalute turn. Would probably flat with AA/1010/8x some of the time as well, and shove with them. Would shove most combo draws (although sometimes call with them). I am not sure if he would slow down on turn, I imagine he would have to be scared after I bet smallish on flop, then "just called" his cr, he would have to be worried I have a big hand, making a turn bet without a very strong hand (we're basically all in on the turn) less likely. That said, if he feels I am weak, I see no reason why he couldn't shove turn, just that he would be less likely to given how strong I look. |
Re: live misclick v. thetakeover 25/50 nl LIVE, 300bb deep...
[ QUOTE ]
Don't think I would play for stacks here, I would most likely call and evalute turn. Would probably flat with AA/1010/8x some of the time as well, and shove with them. Would shove most combo draws (although sometimes call with them). I am not sure if he would slow down on turn, I imagine he would have to be scared after I bet smallish on flop, then "just called" his cr, he would have to be worried I have a big hand, making a turn bet without a very strong hand (we're basically all in on the turn) less likely. That said, if he feels I am weak, I see no reason why he couldn't shove turn, just that he would be less likely to given how strong I look. [/ QUOTE ] If you're not willing to play for stacks, then I'd be folding most of the time and calling some of the time, maybe 75/25 depending on what Nick's been doing. For a player as good as he is, you're probably just throwing away money calling most of the time here just because he will lead the turn with such a high frequency and you basically say that you'll be folding to that bet. I agree that he'll have to consider the possibility that you might actually have AA or 8x or TT, but really the only one of those hands that really falls into the meat of your range based on preflop action is TT and since it's only one hand (well, 3 combos) in your range, I'd expect him to bet the turn often. |
Re: live misclick v. thetakeover 25/50 nl LIVE, 300bb deep...
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] Don't think I would play for stacks here, I would most likely call and evalute turn. Would probably flat with AA/1010/8x some of the time as well, and shove with them. Would shove most combo draws (although sometimes call with them). I am not sure if he would slow down on turn, I imagine he would have to be scared after I bet smallish on flop, then "just called" his cr, he would have to be worried I have a big hand, making a turn bet without a very strong hand (we're basically all in on the turn) less likely. That said, if he feels I am weak, I see no reason why he couldn't shove turn, just that he would be less likely to given how strong I look. [/ QUOTE ] If you're not willing to play for stacks, then I'd be folding most of the time and calling some of the time, maybe 75/25 depending on what Nick's been doing. For a player as good as he is, you're probably just throwing away money calling most of the time here just because he will lead the turn with such a high frequency and you basically say that you'll be folding to that bet. I agree that he'll have to consider the possibility that you might actually have AA or 8x or TT, but really the only one of those hands that really falls into the meat of your range based on preflop action is TT and since it's only one hand (well, 3 combos) in your range, I'd expect him to bet the turn often. [/ QUOTE ] great post, thank you, dlpnyc21 |
Re: live misclick v. thetakeover 25/50 nl LIVE, 300bb deep...
fwiw i think i like a reraise pf
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Re: live misclick v. thetakeover 25/50 nl LIVE, 300bb deep...
i cant believe im saying this but... nice post ae :P
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Re: live misclick v. thetakeover 25/50 nl LIVE, 300bb deep...
if we assume nick is always making really good higher level decisions, then i think we have to check the flop, but the reality is that he's going to be betting most of the time with hands that beat you, even if checking that flop with those hands would have been the right move. people are also underestimating how wide your range is and btn's range. the RR is just for 5% of stacks. i think it's the case of posters piling on and engaging in a bit of groupthink. the smallish bet is obviously bad if you don't know how often it will induce a bluff raise. i think a 2k bet is still the best play. this hand does not get easier if the flop is checked, similarly if btn bets, which i think is likely with a large part of his range.
given what's happened so far, if we're committed i think call and call/push the turn is far far better than pushing the flop. i haven't played enough with nick to know how often he'd be making a move here. i don't think he'd try to get you to fold JJ/QQ here in this game, so i don't believe your hand is as obvious as people seem to think it is, especially given your weird bet. |
Re: live misclick v. thetakeover 25/50 nl LIVE, 300bb deep...
I think reraising pre-flop is good because THAT makes your hand much easier to play. If he pushes/rr's you fold... if he flats I'd put him on JJ/AK+ himself and be pretty concerned. As played I think I would just fold once he reraises you. Your hand isn't strong enough to stand up when he tests you on the turn. A flop check for pot control makes your hand a lot easier to play I think. On a safe turn if it checks to you you can bet or check. I think you can only get 1 street of value on this hand.
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Re: live misclick v. thetakeover 25/50 nl LIVE, 300bb deep...
[ QUOTE ]
I think reraising pre-flop is good because THAT makes your hand much easier to play. If he pushes/rr's you fold... if he flats I'd put him on JJ/AK+ himself and be pretty concerned. As played I think I would just fold once he reraises you. Your hand isn't strong enough to stand up when he tests you on the turn. A flop check for pot control makes your hand a lot easier to play I think. On a safe turn if it checks to you you can bet or check. I think you can only get 1 street of value on this hand. [/ QUOTE ] you realize there is another person in the hand right? You also realize that by checking, if my hand is good on the flop, a quarter of the deck is likely to hurt me, also. In addition, to the people who think that betting 1200 is the same as 1700-2k, I strongly disagree. 1700 will seem substantial enough that it'll be treated like a real bet. 1200 looks so weird it's asking to be interpreted funny. don't understand why you don't see that. Can I profitably call his CR? Or, if I think I am good on the flop, is shoving best? Thanks, dlpnyc21 |
Re: live misclick v. thetakeover 25/50 nl LIVE, 300bb deep...
This is my first post. Take it for what its worth.
I think this hand is very interesting. Raising pre-flop would have made this hand easier to play post-flop. But not raising isn't necessarily a mistake. Since you didn't raise you have alot of things to think about on the flop. I would be worried about the button cold calling pre-flop. Your flop bet and size are also not really a mistake. It got the button to fold which gives you position for the rest of the hand and based on its size in relation to the size of the pot I don't think it clearly defines your hand. Especially because of how deep you are. Once you get check raised the rest of the hand depends on what level of thinking you put your opponent on. If you think he can accurately narrow your hand down based on your perception of him as a player and the flow of the hand then you need to weigh the likely hood that he knows what you have and is trying to push you off of your hand. What does he put you on? If he knows he is beat how much effort will he put toward pushing you off of your hand? Or has he made the correct read and is raising for value? I would consider a reraise. You have position. You isolated him with your flop bet so all of the aggression of his check raise is directed at you which is something he could do with a wide range of hands. I think he could easily have AKs AQs AJs. QQ+ is possible but I think he would have bet the flop. Your raise size makes me think that a cr was not his original intent and he thinks he can now take it away. |
Re: live misclick v. thetakeover 25/50 nl LIVE, 300bb deep...
[ QUOTE ]
im going to save this thread a whole lot of time bc i don't want to study for this test. [/ QUOTE ] I [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] ae .... coach me? |
Re: live misclick v. thetakeover 25/50 nl LIVE, 300bb deep...
Ceczar,
Very nice post. [ QUOTE ] If we assume nick is always making really good higher level decisions, then i think we have to check the flop, but the reality is that he's going to be betting most of the time with hands that beat you, even if checking that flop with those hands would have been the right move. people are also underestimating how wide your range is and btn's range. the RR is just for 5% of stacks. i think it's the case of posters piling on and engaging in a bit of groupthink. the smallish bet is obviously bad if you don't know how often it will induce a bluff raise. [/ QUOTE ] I agree that some groupthink has taken place and polarized OP's range a bit too much given 1)how deep the game is playing and 2)the UTG light open with what may be an isolation raise by nick. [ QUOTE ] i think a 2k bet is still the best play. this hand does not get easier if the flop is checked, similarly if btn bets, which i think is likely with a large part of his range. [/ QUOTE ] Not sure I fully agree with this statement. Not to say that the hand gets easier or harder one way or the other but rather checking the flop helps to manage the pot better. There is still a chance that a showdown will come into play. Checking this hand on the flop makes that a possibility while betting it seems to eliminate it. Not sure if that is good, bad or indifferent for many but I value that as a possibility. [ QUOTE ] given what's happened so far, if we're committed i think call and call/push the turn is far far better than pushing the flop. i haven't played enough with nick to know how often he'd be making a move here. i don't think he'd try to get you to fold JJ/QQ here in this game, so i don't believe your hand is as obvious as people seem to think it is, especially given your weird bet. [/ QUOTE ] Agree with this. |
Re: live misclick v. thetakeover 25/50 nl LIVE, 300bb deep...
ive never played 72 but my instincts tells me that doing it for 4BBs a pop should DRASTICALLY change the entire dynamic of the table, shouldnt it? like a sick amount. thats $1400 more in the pot to snatch each time u get it. just the 72 alone should tip the scales into making this a DEFINITE repop preflop. obviously affects it less postflop but still far from negligable. i have not played many hands with nick but if u felt it would be close without the 72 on, it might be a call now. terribly misplayed hand tho, so that makes it kinda hard to comment.
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Re: live misclick v. thetakeover 25/50 nl LIVE, 300bb deep...
[ QUOTE ]
if we assume nick is always making really good higher level decisions, then i think we have to check the flop, but the reality is that he's going to be betting most of the time with hands that beat you, even if checking that flop with those hands would have been the right move. people are also underestimating how wide your range is and btn's range. the RR is just for 5% of stacks. i think it's the case of posters piling on and engaging in a bit of groupthink. the smallish bet is obviously bad if you don't know how often it will induce a bluff raise. i think a 2k bet is still the best play. this hand does not get easier if the flop is checked, similarly if btn bets, which i think is likely with a large part of his range. given what's happened so far, if we're committed i think call and call/push the turn is far far better than pushing the flop. i haven't played enough with nick to know how often he'd be making a move here. i don't think he'd try to get you to fold JJ/QQ here in this game, so i don't believe your hand is as obvious as people seem to think it is, especially given your weird bet. [/ QUOTE ] very nice post ceczar. fwiw, ceczar has played in these games before and has put in a lot of hours with nick. as he stated, he would be MUCH more likely to bet this flop with hands that beat mine then check it, I actually have never seen him take the rr pre, cr flop line before, he usually just leads with his range. It seems everyone agrees this flop is a check, given that I bet this small amount, and he cr'd--what is my plan for the rest of the hand? thanks, dlpnyc21 |
Re: live misclick v. thetakeover 25/50 nl LIVE, 300bb deep...
[ QUOTE ]
I think reraising pre-flop is good because THAT makes your hand much easier to play. If he pushes/rr's you fold... if he flats I'd put him on JJ/AK+ himself and be pretty concerned. [/ QUOTE ] So essentially, by raising preflop, we are sort of bluffing. We don't get value from worse hands ever. We have the best hand, we take the 1200 or whatever in the pot. We have the best hand, we get 5betbluffed and lose ~2400 or whatever. We don't have the best hand, we lose ~2400 + any other chips we put in postflop (unless we flop a J). 4betting seems pretty bad, the only useful thing I can see it doing is folding out QQ? |
Re: live misclick v. thetakeover 25/50 nl LIVE, 300bb deep...
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Note: We are playing 7-2 for 200 bucks, if that affects anything. Private game. Game is 7 handed, effective stack size 15k. Average raise size in this game is anywhere from 300-500 generally preflop, there has sometimes been a straddle, but not during this hand. Nick has been playing pretty high gear, and has shown down a bluff earlier in the night. The only hand we have played against each other so far was when he raised btn to 300, I called from SB with 77, flop 883, chk call 600, turn 2, chk chk, river 2, I checked, he bet 1100 and I paid off his 1010. Not exactly sure how he views me, he probably thinks I'm decent. UTG, a loose, active player raises to 225, this is an unusually small raise, and I wasn't exactly sure what it meant, I assumed a pretty weak hand (I think he would make it bigger with a stronger hand to discourage multiple callers). Nick immediately makes it 800 to go utg+2. He reraises more than most of the other players preflop in this game, probably has something like 30/20 vpip 7 handed. I am sitting on 15k, he has me covered, I look down at JJ directly to his left in the hijack. What is the best play here and why? I have not 4 bet him this session, the only time I ever 4 bet him was another session when I did it with AK and I got it in v. his AK for 17k each pre. I elect to just call. Is this poor? Surprisingly, the btn, also a more frequent reraiser, cold calls. I am not sure what the btns range is here, but it's probably something like 77-QQ, AQ+. He is likely to 4-bet AK, KK+, but maybe not. Nick's range is probably generally tight when he is doing it v. an utg raiser, however, the utg's small raise size may have been interpreted by Nick as weakness, as it was by me. UTG folds. Flop is 10108 two spades, I have JsJx. Nick checks. What is your action and why? If I am betting here, it would be partially a value bet, and partially an information bet. I am not sure my hand can withstand a raise from either the BTN, or a reraise if Nick checked. However, I thought it would be fairly hard for either of them to raise without a hand that beats mine. I decided to bet 1700 for value, and go to throw out 3 500 chips, and 2 100 chips... Accidentally, I make it 1200 (two 500 chips, 2 100 chips). This is a small bet into the approx. 2600 pot. BTN folds. Nick thinks for a bit, and makes it 4k... If I call, I am going to have approximately 9k left after my call for the turn. What is the best play, and what is my plan for the rest of the hands. Or, alternatively, is this an easy fold? Thanks, dlpnyc21 [/ QUOTE ] pre is good. if he got in 17k w/ ak you dont need to open up a rr here. post flop he solidly puts you on a med pp or an "ace buster" type hand cuz he knows ull get in 17k w/ ak. the fact you called off 2k earlier on a similar board means hes raising to make you pay on a draw heavy board. the reason he cr'd here but usually doesnt is becuase its 4 handed. feel free to make an ez fold orrr if money is not a problem weigh your chances of getting him to fold aa/kk w/ a re-raise. or can you freeze him up w/ a flat call? if you can flat call him and take it on the turn. but if you cant freeze him up and hell push the turn you have to riase or fold here. if you have regularly slow played big hands you cant push youll get insta called but if you generally play your big hands fast this is a perfect time for a push. |
Re: live misclick v. thetakeover 25/50 nl LIVE, 300bb deep...
your hand looks SO MUCH like 1010 JJ possibly QQ. it comes down to if he thinks he can push you off those hands.
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Re: live misclick v. thetakeover 25/50 nl LIVE, 300bb deep...
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it comes down to if he thinks he can push you off those hands. [/ QUOTE ] regardless of whether folding JJ is right here or not, there is no way nick expects to get anyone to fold any overpair on this board with a small checkraise. he may think david may have a lower pair he will fold, or some other middling hand, but if nick is bluffing here, it's not because he puts OP on JJ |
Re: live misclick v. thetakeover 25/50 nl LIVE, 300bb deep...
Would it be so terrible to fold preflop to a reraise of an UTG raiser from a good aggressive player? Entering the pot with a call narrows your range squarely on a pair 99>QQ given he knows you are solid.
Just makes things hard to play +EV poker. |
Re: live misclick v. thetakeover 25/50 nl LIVE, 300bb deep...
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Would it be so terrible to fold preflop to a reraise of an UTG raiser from a good aggressive player? [/ QUOTE ] Yes |
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