Wanted: Sympathy and Reassurance After Two Weeks of Hell!
 

I think I know the answer to this question, but is it common amongst solid, winning players to play 14,000 hands (in a fortnight, in my case) and still be losing? Do other players suffer extended periods feeling that they can't do anything right?!

With money in the bank after leaving my legal career, I've been playing online poker full-time since June.

I played an average of 20,000 hands per month in each of June, July, August and September and averaged around $3,700 in each of those months at primarily $1/2 and $2/4 NLHE. My PT BB/100 averaged around 4-5 for June-September at both limits and my bankroll has grown from $6,000 to $20,000.

I was very happy with that start as I only moved from limit cash games (and NHLE tournaments) to NLHE cash games in April this year.

I'm a tight but reasonably aggressive player who feels very comfortable taking on most players although (as I guess we all do) I'm still finding the most aggressive, thinking opponents tougher to deal with.

After a pretty solid start in my adventure into full time poker, the last couple of weeks have been extremely tough. I've played 14,000 hands and am down around $1,000 (mainly because most of my tough beats have happened at the $2/4 tables). That's not a huge dent to my roll, of course, but it feels like I'm being dealt big, second best hands every hour, failing miserably to get anyone to pay off my monsters, getting outdrawn fairly often and that a number of the tough calls/folds I've made have turned out to be wrong (with the benefit of hindsight).

I've certainly had bad days in the last four months, but not a seemingly endless run like this!

Does this sound like a relatively inexperienced player trying to deal with his first extended period of tough beats or someone who might be better off going back to his tedious office job?!

Re: Wanted: Sympathy and Reassurance After Two Weeks of Hell!
 

You seem like youve got your head screwed on, I play part time as I work fulltime, but still, downswings hurt like hell. The main thing is to take a break, and roll with it. I know how you feel and it actually feels good to hear somone else on the same kinda problem as me, i can tear up games for 20 or 30k hands then all of a sudden, i cannot win.

Its just the way poker is i guess, you just gotta make sure youve got financial backup to help you get through it without goin busto.

Gluck.

Re: Wanted: Sympathy and Reassurance After Two Weeks of Hell!
 

14k hands breakeven = extremely standard

just play more hands u nit and it will only be a few days breakeven!

Re: Wanted: Sympathy and Reassurance After Two Weeks of Hell!
 

14k hands?

sheeeit. thats nothing. i know a guy who was totally a winning player and lost for over a million hands.

Re: Wanted: Sympathy and Reassurance After Two Weeks of Hell!
 

also if you're going to play for a living, you might want to think about playing >20,000 hands/month, unless you're a super winner, or a high stakes player that can make a ton of money off 20,000 hands

Re: Wanted: Sympathy and Reassurance After Two Weeks of Hell!
 

fgators: "lol, you call that a bad run? page me in 1598600 hands, n00b!"

http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t...fit/gators.jpg

Re: Wanted: Sympathy and Reassurance After Two Weeks of Hell!
 

[ QUOTE ]
also if you're going to play for a living, you might want to think about playing >20,000 hands/month, unless you're a super winner, or a high stakes player that can make a ton of money off 20,000 hands

[/ QUOTE ]

Understood. I've started to get closer to 30,000 hands per month now that I feel comfortable with NHLE and 4-5 tabling. What's a realistic target for a full-time player?

Re: Wanted: Sympathy and Reassurance After Two Weeks of Hell!
 

You might want to read "The Poker Mindset", I thought it had some excellent stuff on "downswings". In fact, if your playing for a living you'd be silly not to pick up a copy.

Re: Wanted: Sympathy and Reassurance After Two Weeks of Hell!
 

30k hands min bro. Grind thru the variences. Personally I would stick with 1-2nl till I had 35-40k. BR-NIT-FTW.

Re: Wanted: Sympathy and Reassurance After Two Weeks of Hell!
 

[ QUOTE ]
You might want to read "The Poker Mindset", I thought it had some excellent stuff on "downswings". In fact, if your playing for a living you'd be silly not to pick up a copy.

[/ QUOTE ]

My friend swares by this book, I'm buying a copy today.

Re: Wanted: Sympathy and Reassurance After Two Weeks of Hell!
 

post when you get to 50k hands breakeven [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

Re: Wanted: Sympathy and Reassurance After Two Weeks of Hell!
 

[ QUOTE ]
You seem like youve got your head screwed on, I play part time as I work fulltime, but still, downswings hurt like hell. The main thing is to take a break, and roll with it. I know how you feel and it actually feels good to hear somone else on the same kinda problem as me, i can tear up games for 20 or 30k hands then all of a sudden, i cannot win.

Its just the way poker is i guess, you just gotta make sure youve got financial backup to help you get through it without goin busto.

Gluck.

[/ QUOTE ]

take some days off. Downswings/breakeven stretches mess with your head. If you have a friend, who knows how to play, let him look while you play and comment, to reasure your confidence.

GL

Re: Wanted: Sympathy and Reassurance After Two Weeks of Hell!
 

[ QUOTE ]
fgators: "lol, you call that a bad run? page me in 1598600 hands, n00b!"

http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t...fit/gators.jpg

[/ QUOTE ]

[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

Re: Wanted: Sympathy and Reassurance After Two Weeks of Hell!
 

[ QUOTE ]
30k hands min bro. Grind thru the variences. Personally I would stick with 1-2nl till I had 35-40k. BR-NIT-FTW.

[/ QUOTE ]

Cheers, mate. I'm going to stick to 1-2 for at least a few days until things smooth out a bit and a copy of "Poker Mindset" is on the way from Amazon already.

And I'm starting to feel like a real nit now, but what on earth does BR-NIT-FTW mean?

Re: Wanted: Sympathy and Reassurance After Two Weeks of Hell!
 

Variance.

Plus you make more than that from RB surely?

Re: Wanted: Sympathy and Reassurance After Two Weeks of Hell!
 

I play on Pacific and Bodog, neither of which offer Rakeback. :-(

Re: Wanted: Sympathy and Reassurance After Two Weeks of Hell!
 

bankroll nit for the win.

BigDan, out of curiosity how many hands have you logged at 1/2?

Re: Wanted: Sympathy and Reassurance After Two Weeks of Hell!
 

Err..right. I think I'm still missing something - lol.

I'm at 61,000 for 1/2, currently running at 4.5BB/100, and at 25,000 for 2/4, now running at a fairly pathetic 2.25/100. I am well aware that's a fairly small sample size but my number of hands per month is increasing with multi-tabling and generally increased confidence/motivation.

What's a decent number of hands to aim for in a month? 30,000? 40,000? Or more?

Re: Wanted: Sympathy and Reassurance After Two Weeks of Hell!
 

[ QUOTE ]
Err..right. I think I'm still missing something - lol.

I'm at 61,000 for 1/2, currently running at 4.5BB/100, and at 25,000 for 2/4, now running at a fairly pathetic 2.25/100. I am well aware that's a fairly small sample size but my number of hands per month is increasing with multi-tabling and generally increased confidence/motivation.

What's a decent number of hands to aim for in a month? 30,000? 40,000? Or more?

[/ QUOTE ]

I could play 30 or 40k and still have a job with that.


Tbh, the first thing that came to my mind when I read this was "If you have to ask this question chances are high that you shouldnt be a professional player at all"

Im not taking the right to say this cause Im such a great player or because I know it all. Much rather Ive been in the same situation as you; call it "going pro, without being a pro" - its no good.

Getting a job just to cover your living and steadily growing a roll / gaining experience / getting better really is the way to go. There are just too many things in your posts that indicate (to me) that youre not quite ready.

I dont judge about your play, you may very well be a winning player. However, really making a living online takes so much more than just to know how to play the cards.

Its all just a personal opinion and I could be very wrong,... but I may not.


Ill end this little lesson with : Swings can get much worse than that.

Re: Wanted: Sympathy and Reassurance After Two Weeks of Hell!
 

Points taken, hra. I'm impressed if you can rack up 30,000 or 40,000 hands in addition to a full-time job - I obviously need to step up my game!

Re: Wanted: Sympathy and Reassurance After Two Weeks of Hell!
 

I agree with hra and was suprised you quit you job with only $6k roll, that leaves pretty much no room for error... alas, you seem to have pulled through and built it to a decent amount - so continue on grinding, I say.

Hra, th eproblem with working fulltime and playing 30-40k hands per month is that you're likely not going to have much time left to study and improve, whereas going fulltime allows for far more effort to be put in.

Re: Wanted: Sympathy and Reassurance After Two Weeks of Hell!
 

[ QUOTE ]
Points taken, hra. I'm impressed if you can rack up 30,000 or 40,000 hands in addition to a full-time job - I obviously need to step up my game!

[/ QUOTE ]

not a fulltime job. Take a job that leaves you with as much time as possible and just exactly covers your (minimal) cost of living.
That changes all of the financial dynamics in your first months of (essentially) going pro. Not to speak of the psychological advantages that it bringes with it.

Im not trying to talk you out of your plans. If you are psychologically tough and the pokergods dont exactly doom you you can do it. No doubt. But also note that even 50BIs isnt a ton for playing professionally.

We dont really know enough about your financial situation though. Will you have to cash out every month from your effective roll? What are your costs of living? What are you expecting?

etc. pp , it all goes into the equation.


To finish off what more positively: You CAN do it. If you really want to and if youre willing to put the time and effort into it.

Re: Wanted: Sympathy and Reassurance After Two Weeks of Hell!
 

[ QUOTE ]


Hra, th eproblem with working fulltime and playing 30-40k hands per month is that you're likely not going to have much time left to study and improve, whereas going fulltime allows for far more effort to be put in.

[/ QUOTE ]


Thats true. I didnt really make it clear what I meant in my first post.
I wanted to stick with the idea of going pro but taking out some of the most dangerous variables - hence a parttime job.

Sticking with a fulltime job and playing poker is a little different ofcourse. If you were to decide to go back to it again you would obviously have to play less hands and study more.

Re: Wanted: Sympathy and Reassurance After Two Weeks of Hell!
 

[ QUOTE ]
page me in 1598600 hands, n00b!"

[/ QUOTE ]

I lol'd

Re: Wanted: Sympathy and Reassurance After Two Weeks of Hell!
 

Good stuff, hra and Sink.

To put things in perspective, I'd saved enough from my last job (which was well paid but seriously dull and stressful) to last me for 6-9 months whilst I dedicate my time to poker. I'm keeping my living costs to a minimum (not easy in London, but possible) and I'm not expecting to be living the high life anytime soon. Averaging anything close to $4,000 per month in my first year would be a great success from my point of view.

With hindsight and knowledge/experience, $6K was clearly a small bankroll to start with but the poker gods' help in getting that to $20K has been a blessing. However, I totally accept the points made by you and other 2+2ers that I really need to get more hands in per month.

Sinks' point about studying is also a good one. I do take time off, but I also spend a fair bit of time when I'm not online on other poker-related stuff (compiling notes on players, reading poker literature and, now, posting more on 2+2). I even go running to keep myself fit (mentally and physically) and often spend that time thinking over hands I played earlier that day.

Your final, positive note is appreciated: Motivation and effort are not lacking but more experience and sound advice from other 2+2 ers is what I really need now!

Re: Wanted: Sympathy and Reassurance After Two Weeks of Hell!
 

6 - 9 months and if you fail nothing happened?

dude, wtf, go for it!

50BIs is plenty in this case.

Re: Wanted: Sympathy and Reassurance After Two Weeks of Hell!
 

[ QUOTE ]
Your final, positive note is appreciated: Motivation and effort are not lacking but more experience and sound advice from other 2+2 ers is what I really need now!

[/ QUOTE ]

soundest advice i have: keep poker a hobby.

Re: Wanted: Sympathy and Reassurance After Two Weeks of Hell!
 

Just make sure you're prepared mentally and financially for 20k b/e stretches (likely to get a few of these in 100k hands) and 10-15 BI downswings.... this is why its important to try and get 35-40k hands p/month so you have less chance of a b/e or losing month.

Personally I'm going to try and train myself not to be happy while in a winning period and likewise not be pissed off and upset while in a losing or b/e stretch... but try and remain emotinally neutral. This is hard to do but must be possible. Just have to forget about the current situation and remember the overall hourly winrate [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Re: Wanted: Sympathy and Reassurance After Two Weeks of Hell!
 

how the hell are you playing full-time without rakeback? Move to a site with rb now plz.

[x] missed value