basic river spot
 

Full 60. Villain is laggy John who is one of the better regulars in the 60. He definitely thinks I'm nitty preflop but I give him mountains of action postflop with marginal (but almost always winning) hands. A few hours earlier I 5bet him with AhKh on 5h6h5c4h board after I 3bet his flop c/r and he called me down with QhJh.

So he raises in EP, fold to me I call in bb with K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

Flop Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
I c/r he call

Turn K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
I bet/3 he calls

River J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
I bet he raises

Re: basic river spot
 

GAS.

-DeathDonkey

Re: basic river spot
 

I'd almost always hit it again here.

Re: basic river spot
 

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GAS.

-DeathDonkey

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- Chris Daddy Cool

Re: basic river spot
 

THIRD FLOOR!

Re: basic river spot
 

Weather or not to call a cap seems like a tougher question. This may be a spot where 3b/f is the correct play, though v hard to actually make

Re: basic river spot
 

Never folding to 4bet, I just tell myself he was free showdown raising with JJ on the turn and hope the pot comes my way.

Re: basic river spot
 

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Never folding to 4bet, I just tell myself he was free showdown raising with JJ on the turn and hope the pot comes my way.

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i assumed from your description that he was better than that....

Re: basic river spot
 

Only AT and T9 beat us? And he's laggy?

Raise. What do I win?

Re: basic river spot
 

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Only AT and T9 beat us?

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And of those, only AT[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] and T9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] make sense

Re: basic river spot
 

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Only AT and T9 beat us? And he's laggy?

Raise. What do I win?

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What are some realistic 2 pair or better hands that he can have here? He's never folding two pair on the river but he can never have 1 pair.

Re: basic river spot
 

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What are some realistic 2 pair or better hands that he can have here? He's never folding two pair on the river but he can never have 1 pair.

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for starters, QJhh, and KJhh. I don't see why KQ shouldn't figure prominently in his range either.
Is there an outside chance he would play a flopped set like this? I would guess no, but you should be a better judge.

Re: basic river spot
 

i know the right answer cause ive played with john a lot and know how much he wants to break sean in two. the answer is to 3 bet for a lotta lotta val-U and call a 4 bet with all sorts of hopes your hand might still be good. btw i dont know why sean is bugging you guys with all these straight forward hands where you can only be confused.. each hand is live against players who are easy to read (like the ones against me) and the plays are virtually automatic.

Re: basic river spot
 

I'm actually pretty sure 3betting here is a mistake even though I won the hand. More ways to have T9/AT than two pairs and I lose more bets against the straights.

Re: basic river spot
 

i thought we went over this: THAT GUY HATES YOU.

this is an auto 3 bet-call.

Re: basic river spot
 

It's understandable, it can be frustrating to play against someone who plays as great as I do.

Re: basic river spot
 

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I'm actually pretty sure 3betting here is a mistake even though I won the hand. More ways to have T9/AT than two pairs and I lose more bets against the straights.

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What T9/AT does he have besides the club ones? And why are you only counting two pairs as hands you beat? What about all the undersets?

Re: basic river spot
 

If he had a set other than Jacks we would still be at the casino raising on the turn. AT he can have even offsuit here. T9 he probably does need clubs though although I suspect any T9 is a standard 3bet on the flop for him because it's double gutter and thus might be hidden even though it isn't at all.

Re: basic river spot
 

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If he had a set other than Jacks we would still be at the casino raising on the turn. AT he can have even offsuit here. T9 he probably does need clubs though although I suspect any T9 is a standard 3bet on the flop for him because it's double gutter and thus might be hidden even though it isn't at all.

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Ya I just re-read the hand and your description of him and you are right. AT/T9 make way more sense than anything.

Re: basic river spot
 

VALUE TOWN... one, maybe two more raises... the only thing that scares me is that he KNOWS T9 is definitely in your range and you may play it this way... which would make me a little scarred if he seems like he's willing to keep raising.