KK in 3 bet pot against solid tag - NL$50 6m
 

Villian in this hand is baba-joon, one of the more solid tags at NL$50 on FTP imo. Have him at 20/16, he's very aggro, good hand reader, etc. He should have me at 23/17ish, not sure of his other reads on me.

Full Tilt Poker, $0.25/$0.50 NL Hold'em Cash Game, 6 Players
LegoPoker Hand History Converter

BB: $41.55
UTG: $61.25
Hero (MP): $56.50
CO: $66.35
BTN: $55.70
SB: $50.25

Pre-Flop: K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] dealt to Hero (MP)
<font color="red">UTG raises to $1.75</font>, <font color="red">Hero raises to $6</font>, 4 folds, UTG calls $4.25

Flop: ($12.75) Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 Players)
UTG checks, <font color="red">Hero bets $8.50</font>, UTG calls $8.50

Turn: ($29.75) 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 Players)
UTG checks, Hero???

I almost always check behind against a solid player here, but my concerns are:
1. The pot is already huge.
2. He likely puts me to a decision for my stack on any river if I check behind.

Whats your line? If you check behind, do you call a big bet on a blank river?

Re: KK in 3 bet pot against solid tag - NL$50 6m
 

ive seen him do some pretty bad stuff.

Anyways, I would check behind here. i think he would shove the flop with any draw.

You are right about the river. Do you think he is shoving this river w/ 99/1010? He is capable.

Re: KK in 3 bet pot against solid tag - NL$50 6m
 

He cant be flatting a set on this board. On the other hand you beat nothing other than AcKc, but I think he would shove that [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] Can he call with clubs oop?

Re: KK in 3 bet pot against solid tag - NL$50 6m
 

What would he check/call you with that smokes you, especially on a double [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] flop? I think you're fine here.

Villain never slowplays a hand that beats us here, I feel I'm ahead enough to pot commit myself with a turn bet.

whyzzee, why would anyone shove the river with 99/TT unless they're a complete idiot?

Re: KK in 3 bet pot against solid tag - NL$50 6m
 

bet turn for protection here. and to avoid an almost impossible river descion. his range is really big imo and we r obv ahead of it. not the type of board u should b lookin to eek out more value from against a decent player. bet the turn and take down this nice pot most of the time

PS
u wanna just ship tha 50 bones now?!?!!??! [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]



http://images.minorleagueball.com/im...n/rockies2.JPG

Re: KK in 3 bet pot against solid tag - NL$50 6m
 

[ QUOTE ]
What would he check/call you with that smokes you, especially on a double [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] flop? I think you're fine here.

You're essentially pot committing yourself here with any regular sized bet, which is why I check, just in case he did flat call with a set or two pair.

whyzzee, why would anyone shove the river with 99/TT unless they're a complete idiot?

[/ QUOTE ]


I think he could as a valuebluff.

Anyways, if the answer is he never does, then we can check here and fold to a riverbet. Or if he checks river, get some value.

Re: KK in 3 bet pot against solid tag - NL$50 6m
 

No such thing as valuebluff exists.

Re: KK in 3 bet pot against solid tag - NL$50 6m
 

[ QUOTE ]
No such thing as valuebluff exists.

[/ QUOTE ]

theory wise, no...But it happens. I could post a hand where this villian attempts to do it. But i dont want to out myself [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

Re: KK in 3 bet pot against solid tag - NL$50 6m
 

How many of you have ever valuebluffed in a situation like this? I can honestly say valuebluff isn't even in my bag of tricks. I just don't think you run into enough opponents at microstakes to make this profitable. Who folds an over pair here to your shove? No one.

Am I bad?

Re: KK in 3 bet pot against solid tag - NL$50 6m
 

[ QUOTE ]
How many of you have ever valuebluffed in a situation like this? I can honestly say valuebluff isn't even in my bag of tricks. I just don't think you run into enough opponents at microstakes to make this profitable. Who folds an over pair here to your shove? No one.

Am I bad?

[/ QUOTE ]

I think its more of a panic thing. The thought that you should bluff before he does. I dont really know...I dont do it.

Re: KK in 3 bet pot against solid tag - NL$50 6m
 

[ QUOTE ]
How many of you have ever valuebluffed in a situation like this? I can honestly say valuebluff isn't even in my bag of tricks. I just don't think you run into enough opponents at microstakes to make this profitable. Who folds an over pair here to your shove? No one.

Am I bad?

[/ QUOTE ]
from my experience this villian makes more moves than most 50 playes, probably why whyzze has seen him do some retarded stuff. He is a petty good hand reader though, so if I check behind he will know I'm not in love with my hand and that I will probably puke if he shoves teh river. I def think he's capable of shoving the river with 99/1010, but I'm not sure he calls a flop bet in a 3 bet pot with 2 overs on the board from me though.

Re: KK in 3 bet pot against solid tag - NL$50 6m
 

I just bet the turn here, and take any play away from him. You're obv not folding the river if he calls or pushes over your turn bet.

Re: KK in 3 bet pot against solid tag - NL$50 6m
 

bet for value. also, the term 'valuebluff' is highly unapplicable here...you never get a better hand to fold.

Re: KK in 3 bet pot against solid tag - NL$50 6m
 

[ QUOTE ]
bet for value. also, the term 'valuebluff' is highly unapplicable here...you never get a better hand to fold.

[/ QUOTE ]


lol, that's what I'm questioning.

Re: KK in 3 bet pot against solid tag - NL$50 6m
 

I am so confused.

Why would you ever, ever, ever check behind here?

I would keep betting and expect to be shown AQ, KQ, or a club draw almost everytime.

Re: KK in 3 bet pot against solid tag - NL$50 6m
 

results:
I checked behind and spiked a king on the river. He shoved and I double fist-pumped snap called and stacked his AA. Thoughts on villian's line with AA here?

Re: KK in 3 bet pot against solid tag - NL$50 6m
 

I don't think his range is exclusive to sets, but alot of you seriously underestimate the amount of people who would cc a set on the flop.

And there's really not even anything that wrong with it

Re: KK in 3 bet pot against solid tag - NL$50 6m
 

[ QUOTE ]
results:
I checked behind and spiked a king on the river. He shoved and I double fist-pumped snap called and stacked his AA. Thoughts on villian's line with AA here?

[/ QUOTE ]

If I call AA pf here it is with the intention of check/jamming almost all flops

Re: KK in 3 bet pot against solid tag - NL$50 6m
 

That's a very weird line for him to take with AA. Nothing you'd expect from an agg 20/16. Very tricky.

Re: KK in 3 bet pot against solid tag - NL$50 6m
 

baba-joon always gets his AA stacked cause he plays it like [censored]

Re: KK in 3 bet pot against solid tag - NL$50 6m
 

Yeah, this is clearly an awful way to play AA.

Re: KK in 3 bet pot against solid tag - NL$50 6m
 

[ QUOTE ]
Yeah, this is clearly an awful way to play AA

[/ QUOTE ]
ya this hand made me re-evaluate my read on him. Forgot to mention the river was the king of clubs. He butchered this hand so bad and in so many ways.

Re: KK in 3 bet pot against solid tag - NL$50 6m
 

His AA line is flat out terrible. His river shove is beyond atrocious, not to mention the rest of his play in the hand.

And from the 160 hands or so I have on him, his overall play is flat out terrible.

Re: KK in 3 bet pot against solid tag - NL$50 6m
 

[ QUOTE ]
His AA line is flat out terrible. His river shove is beyond atrocious, not to mention the rest of his play in the hand.

And from the 160 hands or so I have on him, his overall play is flat out terrible.

[/ QUOTE ]


Maybe he should stop 7 tabling.

Re: KK in 3 bet pot against solid tag - NL$50 6m
 

Maybe?

Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (5 handed) Full Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

saw flop|<font color="#C00000">saw showdown</font>

Hero ($52.20)
SB ($66.50)
<font color="#C00000">BB ($81.60)</font>
<font color="#C00000">UTG ($50)</font>
MP ($35.60)

Preflop: Hero is Button with 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
<font color="#CC3333">UTG raises to $1.75</font>, <font color="#CC3333">MP raises to $3</font>, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, BB calls $2.50, UTG calls $1.25.

Flop: ($9.25) K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
BB checks, UTG checks, MP checks.

Turn: ($9.25) 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
BB checks, <font color="#CC3333">UTG bets $6</font>, MP folds, BB calls $6.

River: ($21.25) 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">BB bets $10.5</font>, <font color="#CC3333">UTG raises to $25</font>, BB calls $14.50.

Final Pot: $71.25

Results in white below: <font color="#FFFFFF">
BaBa has 8s 8h (two pair, kings and eights).
UTG has Kh Ac (three of a kind, kings).
Outcome: UTG wins $71.25. </font>