Overplayed 4 card straight?
 

Button is skilled LAGTAG, SB is Loose-sucky.

PokerStars 10/20 Hold'em (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Preflop: Button is BB with A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
UTG calls, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Button raises</font>, SB calls, <font color="#CC3333">hero 3-bets</font>, UTG calls, Button calls, SB calls.

Flop: (12 SB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
SB checks, <font color="#CC3333">hero bets</font>, UTG folds, Button calls, <font color="#CC3333">SB raises</font>, hero calls, Button calls.

Turn: (9 BB) T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
SB checks, <font color="#CC3333">hero bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Button raises</font>, SB calls, <font color="#CC3333">hero 3-bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Button caps</font>, SB calls, hero calls.

River: (21 BB) A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
SB checks, hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">Button bets</font>, SB folds, hero calls.

Final Pot: 23 BB

Re: Overplayed 4 card straight?
 

Looks good with the overlay from the sb and the fact that if he just has the Q high straight, you're rickrolling for the whole pot.

Re: Overplayed 4 card straight? *DELETED*
 

Post deleted by NinaWilliams

Re: Overplayed 4 card straight?
 

Re: Overplayed 4 card straight?
 

Saw that one comin'

Re: Overplayed 4 card straight?
 

The overaly is .5BB when you chop with button. You loose 1 BB when button has KJ.

Not sure its worth it but havent done the math

Re: Overplayed 4 card straight?
 

Looks good to me.

Button caping the turn is worrysome but you cant do anything about that.

Re: Overplayed 4 card straight?
 

Button's range is pretty much KJ/AJ MAYBE JT on the turn, given PF and flop...

The question is whether he raises AJ/JT on this turn?

Re: Overplayed 4 card straight?
 

I would say he does raise it with AJ or JT on the turn. I think he'll be raising it with any jack.

I think you played it fine and it's probably a chop, but for some odd reason I seem to want to say he has QT.

Re: Overplayed 4 card straight?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Button's range is pretty much KJ/AJ MAYBE JT on the turn, given PF and flop...

The question is whether he raises AJ/JT on this turn?

[/ QUOTE ]

If thats his range then id just call. I dont see why he cant have QJ or JT or J8 or J9 though [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

Re: Overplayed 4 card straight?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Button's range is pretty much KJ/AJ MAYBE JT on the turn, given PF and flop...

The question is whether he raises AJ/JT on this turn?

[/ QUOTE ]

If thats his range then id just call. I dont see why he cant have QJ or JT or J8 or J9 though [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

In a pot of this size I think J(q,9,8) all raise the flop.

Re: Overplayed 4 card straight?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Button's range is pretty much KJ/AJ MAYBE JT on the turn, given PF and flop...

The question is whether he raises AJ/JT on this turn?

[/ QUOTE ]

If thats his range then id just call. I dont see why he cant have QJ or JT or J8 or J9 though [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

In a pot of this size I think J(q,9,8) all raise the flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

I also didnt see that he iso raised so you can probably discount J8 J9 some. Its probably just a call now.

Re: Overplayed 4 card straight?
 

i dont bet the flop.

Re: Overplayed 4 card straight?
 

Actual Hand. BB/villain is Stane1985. I think he (arguably) misplayed 3 streets here, but I think the turn 3/bet is pretty wretched unless he thinks I'm a total muppett.

I posted this because I've seen a lot of us SSSH'ers make these overplays (pf 3-bet is only ok because of limper, IMO), flop lead is, as Miles said, pretty not good - this flop crushes an iso raisers range, and SB is folding nothing.

But the turn is worse - the best he can really hope for is that I'm also playing AJ/JT, and that SB has a set/2 pair that misses.

PokerStars $10/$20 Limit Hold'em - 6 players
Hand Converter Tool from DeucesCracked.com

Preflop: Hero is Button with K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
UTG calls, MP folds, CO folds, <font color="#FF0000">Hero raises</font>, SB calls, <font color="#FF0000">BB 3-bets</font>, UTG calls, Hero calls, SB calls.

Flop: (12.00 SB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
SB checks, <font color="#FF0000">BB bets</font>, UTG folds, Hero calls, <font color="#FF0000">SB raises</font>, BB calls, Hero calls.

Turn: (9.00 BB) T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
SB checks, <font color="#FF0000">BB bets</font>, <font color="#FF0000">Hero raises</font>, SB calls, <font color="#FF0000">BB 3-bets</font>, <font color="#FF0000">Hero caps!</font>, SB calls, BB calls.

River: (21.00 BB) A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
SB checks, BB checks, <font color="#FF0000">Hero bets</font>, SB folds, BB calls.

Final Pot: 23.00 BB

Results:
<font color="#FFFFFF">
Hero shows Kh, Js (a straight, Ten to Ace).
BB mucks As, Jc.
Outcome: Hero wins 22.85 BB.
($3.00 Rake)
</font>

Re: Overplayed 4 card straight?
 

i dont think its much of a spew?

if you have AJ KJ J9s

AJ-9 combos
KJ-12 combos
J9s-2 combos

so he's just about breakeven vs. your range and there's a third player. it is probably just a call but close and not surprising at all that he reraised there. you could show up maybe an add'l small % of the time w/o the straight (T9s maybe?).

i see much worse daily.

Re: Overplayed 4 card straight?
 

Miles we're less than 30% against that range. Best case is he has J9s and we have ~55% equity.

Re: Overplayed 4 card straight?
 

sorry i am a fool

you have 50% equity against ~half his range. so clearly not a 3-bet.

still with the third player in and the slim chance seth has a non-straight, i believe it takes about 200 hands for me to see a clearer/worse spew from a tag.

Re: Overplayed 4 card straight?
 

[ QUOTE ]

still with the third player in and the slim chance seth has a non-straight, i believe it takes about 200 hands for me to see a clearer/worse spew from a tag.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't disagree - I don't think this type of thing is an ENORMOUS spew, but I think it's a very very common one which I see from 2p2 tags quite frequently.

Re: Overplayed 4 card straight?
 

Don't three bet the turn, KJ is too likely. And if he doesn't have KJ you're likely splitting... It's really not worth it.

Re: Overplayed 4 card straight?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

still with the third player in and the slim chance seth has a non-straight, i believe it takes about 200 hands for me to see a clearer/worse spew from a tag.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't disagree - I don't think this type of thing is an ENORMOUS spew, but I think it's a very very common one which I see from 2p2 tags quite frequently.

[/ QUOTE ]
yup, i agree. it's one of those weird spots that people misplay often. i mean, you got me to say it's close when it isn't [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]. so yeah, interesting spot to bring up just because it is one of those where a good amount of decent players misplays it. i just felt like pointing out that i see the same players play worse blah blah blah. i feel like the mistake i made when i first posted in this thread is the one that most players make when they decide they should reraise the turn

Re: Overplayed 4 card straight?
 

i almost always 3-bet there in the heat of the moment. thanks for giving me stuff to think about.