Cheating? Is it possible to......
 

Ok, I apologize if this has already been posted, but the sticky on this thread did now have the answer to my question. I know pokerstars has been proven to be random, but is it possible for a cheater to detect what the flop, turn, and river will look like pre-flop? I say this because I played against someone recently in the tourney, call with crap cards, call all in with low pair, during or after the flop, and still come out on top. This happened in 3 hands, and I wonder if he was just a bad player that got lucky or was getting lucky because he knew the cards that would come. Keep in mind the I'm not the most computer savvy person, so I'm asking someone with a programming background if it is possible to see future cards pre-flop.

Re: Cheating? Is it possible to......
 

no, it isn't possible. the cards are not determined until the moment they are dealt.

Re: Cheating? Is it possible to......
 

No, it's not possible.

Re: Cheating? Is it possible to......
 

On Pokerstars the whole deck is determined before any cards are dealt. However, if someone knows what the flop turn and river cards are, then they probably know the hole cards, and that's almost as bad.

Re: Cheating? Is it possible to......
 

^^^

If the deck is determined before the cards are dealt, then I should be careful next time I play then.

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You'd have to hack into the site to do it and that probably would not be an easy task.
Also if there really was already a hack in place I'd sincerely doubt they'd cheat on low stakes games.

Re: Cheating? Is it possible to......
 

^^^

Thats a good point, it wasn't like I was playing a monster tourney.

Re: Cheating? Is it possible to......
 

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You'd have to hack into the site to do it and that probably would not be an easy task.
Also if there really was already a hack in place I'd sincerely doubt they'd cheat on low stakes games.

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I think it's more likely they would cheat at lower stakes. It would be harder to catch since the low stakes could explain the "crazy" play (if they could see your cards). Also, what are small stakes to you isn't small stakes to, oh let's say, the guy in India or Africa.

Re: Cheating? Is it possible to......
 

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On Pokerstars the whole deck is determined before any cards are dealt. However, if someone knows what the flop turn and river cards are, then they probably know the hole cards, and that's almost as bad.

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If that's true, then yes it is possible to know the flop/turn/river before it happens. However, it would require a master's knowledge of data encryption and network security to pull it off. Someone with this level of rare intelligence would have much bigger fish to fry than low-stakes poker games.

Re: Cheating? Is it possible to......
 

I disagree. If I have this kind of skills, I think pokersite is exactly the kind of place I will target. With some minimum poker skills, I can win lots of money without ever being noticed. Even if I get caught, the pokersite probably wont admit it and I probably wont go to jail for it. Obviously I can steal much more if I hack into the Bank of America's computer system, but it is much harder to get away from a crime like that and the punishment will be much more severe than hacking into an offshore pokersite. Talking about risk and reward, it is just hard to come up with a better place to hack than a pokersite.

Re: Cheating? Is it possible to......
 

Arnt the security codes changed everytime a software update is updated and because it'd take so long to actually hack the site if it were possible, the codes would be changed and the hack process would have to restart?

Re: Cheating? Is it possible to......
 

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I disagree. If I have this kind of skills, I think pokersite is exactly the kind of place I will target. With some minimum poker skills, I can win lots of money without ever being noticed. Even if I get caught, the pokersite probably wont admit it and I probably wont go to jail for it. Obviously I can steal much more if I hack into the Bank of America's computer system, but it is much harder to get away from a crime like that and the punishment will be much more severe than hacking into an offshore pokersite. Talking about risk and reward, it is just hard to come up with a better place to hack than a pokersite.

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I would assume that a person with the knowledge to do something like that would already have a job that pays well enough they don't have to resort to petty theft.

However, I'm probably wrong, judging by the types of individuals you see at a DefCon convention. Some may just do it for the thrill.

Re: Cheating? Is it possible to......
 

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Arnt the security codes changed everytime a software update is updated and because it'd take so long to actually hack the site if it were possible, the codes would be changed and the hack process would have to restart?

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Typically when a hacker finds a backdoor through any software, there needs to be a patch that would address that particular exploitation. It's almost always much more complex than simply knowing a password. If nobody knows they found the backdoor, then who would know what to fix?

Re: Cheating? Is it possible to......
 

no - all the cheaters play at absolute.

Re: Cheating? Is it possible to......
 

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no - all the cheaters play at absolute.

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Actually the way absolute servers were hacked/exploited very much shows that this can happen to any other casino including pokerstars.

Re: Cheating? Is it possible to......
 

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Actually the way absolute servers were hacked/exploited very much shows that this can happen to any other casino including pokerstars.

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I run a website dedicated to exposing cheating at Absolute Poker.

You are the first person to claim to know how Absolute servers were hacked/exploited.

Can you please:
a) Explain how it occurred; and
b) How you know this?

Re: Cheating? Is it possible to......
 

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Actually the way absolute servers were hacked/exploited very much shows that this can happen to any other casino including pokerstars.

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I run a website dedicated to exposing cheating at Absolute Poker.

You are the first person to claim to know how Absolute servers were hacked/exploited.

Can you please:
a) Explain how it occurred; and
b) How you know this?

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By "the way servers were hacked" I meant that they were hacked in a way so that people were able to see others hole cards. I.e. people hack sites everyday, but not [everyday] in a way that they can see hole cards.

Re: Cheating? Is it possible to......
 

so... there's no indication that PokerStars (or other operators) share the same vulnerability?

I was a little concerned, as when I first read your post, I thought that was what you meant.

Re: Cheating? Is it possible to......
 

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so... there's no indication that PokerStars (or other operators) share the same vulnerability?

I was a little concerned, as when I first read your post, I thought that was what you meant.

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No, no indicaton for the same vulnerability, but also no indication that similar thing may not happen with ANY other casino.

What's for sure is that in comparison with PokerStars, PS would at least have handled the incident much more adequate. I believe if this happens with PS apart from investigating properly, tracking everything by IP, minute and second (what they do for much smaller incidents) and so on, they would have made a special briefing for all 2+2 mods e.g. etc.

Re: Cheating? Is it possible to......
 

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so... there's no indication that PokerStars (or other operators) share the same vulnerability?


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There is only two possibilities with respect to Absolute.

1) An employee did it.

2) Absolute allows their development team to work remotely and a hacker compromised this without getting detected.

#1 is by far the most likely

Re: Cheating? Is it possible to......
 

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so... there's no indication that PokerStars (or other operators) share the same vulnerability?


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There is only two possibilities with respect to Absolute.

1) An employee did it.

2) Absolute allows their development team to work remotely and a hacker compromised this without getting detected.

#1 is by far the most likely

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How many web/server sites have you hacked so that you are so certain?

Re: Cheating? Is it possible to......
 

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How many web/server sites have you hacked so that you are so certain?

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My days as a hacker pre-date online poker (and even the internet) so none. That doesn't change the fact that those are the only 2 options.

There actually is a 3rd option but that would require that the superuser manage to get spyware onto the computers of a large percentage of high stakes limit players without them noticing. The odds of this are so low that I didn't feel it was worth mentioning.

An employee is the only reasonable way it could be done.

Re: Cheating? Is it possible to......
 

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so... there's no indication that PokerStars (or other operators) share the same vulnerability?

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The internet is a dangerous place. Nothing in invulnerable. That's simply a fact that we have to deal with. I Believe cheating has been going on long before this incident on AP. The fact that large sums of money are involved make online poker a very lucrative target.

The only solution is to have someone develop software that monitors games on all sites looking for abnormalities. This would make it very difficult for someone to accomplish anything after successfully hacking the system.

Re: Cheating? Is it possible to......
 

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The internet is a dangerous place. Nothing in invulnerable. That's simply a fact that we have to deal with. I Believe cheating has been going on long before this incident on AP. The fact that large sums of money are involved make online poker a very lucrative target.

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But your views don't count since you're a muppet who believes stuff with no reason to believe it.

Re: Cheating? Is it possible to......
 

lol at people who still think AP was hacked. It was an inside job fellas.

Re: Cheating? Is it possible to......
 

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lol at people who still think AP was hacked. It was an inside job fellas.

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Lol at people who think the world is that simple [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]
Wasn't pokertracker (i repeat pokertracker) hacked that same week (or around)? Not sure if you noticed but that same week poker academy was hacked too.

Re: Cheating? Is it possible to......
 

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lol at people who still think AP was hacked. It was an inside job fellas.

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Lol at people who think the world is that simple [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]
Wasn't pokertracker (i repeat pokertracker) hacked that same week (or around)? Not sure if you noticed but that same week poker academy was hacked too.

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Mark? AP employee? Who in their right mind would start defending AP right now? I like your subtle hints of the most unlikely scenario's to cover their asses though. GG, you fail.

Re: Cheating? Is it possible to......
 

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lol at people who still think AP was hacked. It was an inside job fellas.

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Lol at people who think the world is that simple [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]
Wasn't pokertracker (i repeat pokertracker) hacked that same week (or around)? Not sure if you noticed but that same week poker academy was hacked too.

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Mark? AP employee? Who in their right mind would start defending AP right now? I like your subtle hints of the most unlikely scenario's to cover their asses though. GG, you fail.

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Yeah, isn't it obvious. While absolute fails to make anything more than aboriginal statement, they do plant secret spies that stay around on 2+2 for a year talkign about nash equlibrium and other stuff so that only once there is a cheating scandal they can come out of the forest and say it's a hack and not superuser account issue.

And if you tell me my writing is "defending" absolute then I can only imagine the state of mobbness of the whole comunity these days ;-))

btw just to put your theory on even more stable ground as based only on these posts is not sustainable: I don't have a big business on absolute, but I actually plan to play even more after these scandals, it's going to be a nice fishy place after some tight a* are out ;-)

Re: Cheating? Is it possible to......
 

I didn't take the time to look at your post history indiana, but I think that your statement about the most unlikely scenario's is disturbing. I don't know if you're just trying to play Devil's advocate, or if you really believe in your alternate theory, but it's pretty absurd when you apply some basic logic. You're free to do whatever you want with your money, but I wouldn't expect people like you to support scum because you seem like an intelligent guy.

Re: Cheating? Is it possible to......
 

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lol at people who still think AP was hacked. It was an inside job fellas.

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Lol at people who think the world is that simple [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]
Wasn't pokertracker (i repeat pokertracker) hacked that same week (or around)? Not sure if you noticed but that same week poker academy was hacked too.

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Hacking a website is not the same thing as hacking into Absolute.

Re: Cheating? Is it possible to......
 

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I didn't take the time to look at your post history indiana, but I think that your statement about the most unlikely scenario's is disturbing. I don't know if you're just trying to play Devil's advocate, or if you really believe in your alternate theory, but it's pretty absurd when you apply some basic logic. You're free to do whatever you want with your money, but I wouldn't expect people like you to support scum because you seem like an intelligent guy.

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Think whatever you want, but I myself wouldn't be harsh with absolute at least not with the present facts (except for not hiring someone more intelligent to be able to handle the case like this). If you think absolute will rig themselve for an extra bug ... this is the "omg action flops" kind of thinking. I put hacking as more probable, or at least same prob as "internal job".

And w.r.t. money on absolute - i'll put them where i think the return will be biggest. I'm not high stakes player, so i don't run VH risk.

But this whole argue is pointless actually [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]
Let's move on.

I hope the outcome of all this is at least is not bad for the online poker in general.

You know - the previous planet poker case was perfect example for why "online poker CAN be rigged" and now we got also the "OMG he can see my whole cards" example.

Re: Cheating? Is it possible to......
 

It is not easy , but i am sure its possible. And in a 13 billion $ Industry many will try any kind of cheat. And never forget a few inside the companys could be involved, not the company itself more underpaid workers. Heard many software is developed in india from 400$/monthly paid workers.

Re: Cheating? Is it possible to......
 

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The internet is a dangerous place. Nothing in invulnerable. That's simply a fact that we have to deal with. I Believe cheating has been going on long before this incident on AP. The fact that large sums of money are involved make online poker a very lucrative target.

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But your views don't count since you're a muppet who believes stuff with no reason to believe it.

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You sound like a future victim of identity theft.

Re: Cheating? Is it possible to......
 

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I know pokerstars has been proven to be random,

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Wait, how?

Re: Cheating? Is it possible to......
 

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no - all the cheaters play at absolute.

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Actually the way absolute servers were hacked/exploited very much shows that this can happen to any other casino including pokerstars.

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Lol, no it doesn't. Every software isn't setup the same as AP. Not to mention unless you work for PS, FTP or whatever site you don't know what sort of security precautions (if any) they have in place to detect or prevent this type of thing.

Making blanket "it happened there, so it can happen anywhere" statements is pointless and does nothing but spread FUD.

Re: Cheating? Is it possible to......
 

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lol at people who still think AP was hacked. It was an inside job fellas.

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Lol at people who think the world is that simple [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]
Wasn't pokertracker (i repeat pokertracker) hacked that same week (or around)? Not sure if you noticed but that same week poker academy was hacked too.

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lol at someone who thinks hacking someones web server is the same as hacking the servers at any online poker site...

Re: Cheating? Is it possible to......
 

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I know pokerstars has been proven to be random,

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Wait, how?

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lol, Entropyaments

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Making blanket "it happened there, so it can happen anywhere" statements is pointless and does nothing but spread FUD.

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