Razz: 8734 vs A236
 

Without looking at twodimes, what do you think the odds of A236 winning are?

Re: Razz: 8734 vs A236
 

i put 65 35, but now that i think about it a little more maybe 60 40

Re: Razz: 8734 vs A236
 

hmm I said 70/30

Re: Razz: 8734 vs A236
 

It's actually closer to [Edit]

Re: Razz: 8734 vs A236
 

hey don't post the results. edit your post

Re: Razz: 8734 vs A236
 

I estimated 60/40

Re: Razz: 8734 vs A236
 

My gut is 70/30 because 3478 has two higher cards than the 4 cards in a236

Re: Razz: 8734 vs A236
 

lol, easy.

try some fun ones:

A234KK vs AA289T
A2JT vs 789K
A234K vs 34569

Re: Razz: 8734 vs A236
 

How do you go about estimating these? (without simulation)?

Re: Razz: 8734 vs A236
 

I have them all memorised!

Re: Razz: 8734 vs A236
 

The general patterns, or the specific cases?

Re: Razz: 8734 vs A236
 

It would be neat to see if there was some sort of guidlines to it, same as in hold'em.....

HU, I would feel it is somewhere around 65/35. It's probably why I am not too good at razz though....as played I would assume it is 99/1 and he would get there... [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

Re: Razz: 8734 vs A236
 

Obviously you would need to know dead cards, but my guess is very close to 70/30.

Re: Razz: 8734 vs A236
 

[ QUOTE ]
Obviously you would need to know dead cards, but my guess is very close to 70/30.

[/ QUOTE ]

Dead cards would be nice, but I put it at 55-45 because of the likelihood of being paired. I'm talking about board cards here, not hole cards.

Re: Razz: 8734 vs A236
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Obviously you would need to know dead cards, but my guess is very close to 70/30.

[/ QUOTE ]

Dead cards would be nice, but I put it at 55-45 because of the likelihood of being paired. I'm talking about board cards here, not hole cards.

[/ QUOTE ]

Huh? I had assumed that the excercise was, there are 2 hands face up on 4th st, what are the odds of A236 one winning.

Re: Razz: 8734 vs A236
 

That was everyone else's assumption, too.

Re: Razz: 8734 vs A236
 

I actually read it to be known boards. Not sure why that makes me dumb, since I dont think I would ever know someone else's down cards on 4th street.

In any event, really doesnt make the result different, and obviously if it was a heads up game there would be no dead cards.

Re: Razz: 8734 vs A236
 

Of course it makes the results different.

xxA246 vs xx8734 is definitely not the same as A246 vs 8734 - unless both people in question will play any 2 down cards.

The quiz is sort of just a checkup. If you put your opponent on a couple of down cards, and you know your cards, can you estimate your equity? I think it was kind of an easy one though.

Re: Razz: 8734 vs A236
 

Its actually an interesting theoretical question, and the math is above me, but I have to concede you are right that it makes some difference, just not a big one.

Running a simulator xxA246 v. xx8734, shows that xxA246 is a 5% stronger hand versus xx8734 than A246 is v. 8734 if you assume that xx for both players is reasonable (9 or under is what I used, your definition of reasonable of course can vary and it is situational).

If you assume xx is random its essentially the same scenario. I assume that the wider the opponents xx range, the closer you will get to the random result.

Re: Razz: 8734 vs A236
 

Yep, the tighter you close the range, the more of a favorite xxA236 - even without doing the math it should be apparent why. The difference gets down to about 85:15 if the ranges are 6 and under I think. Anyway, it obviously never approaches 54:45, even with xxA236 vs xx8734, even considering the odds of pairing.