Al Gore Wins Nobel Peace Prize
 

From NobelPrize.Org:

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The Nobel Peace Prize goes to the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) and Albert Arnold (Al) Gore Jr. "for their efforts to build up and disseminate greater knowledge about man-made climate change, and to lay the foundations for the measures that are needed to counteract such change". Read More

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Edit: Just noticed this was already posted in the Politics forum. Gonna leave it up anyway as I think the discussion here will be different.

Re: Al Gore Wins Nobel Peace Prize
 

I didn't know the Nobel organization gave out a prize for fiction.

Re: Al Gore Wins Nobel Peace Prize
 

But they are fond of irony! Kissinger FTW!

Re: Al Gore Wins Nobel Peace Prize
 

he just barely beat out Will Smith for his work on Hitch.

Re: Al Gore Wins Nobel Peace Prize
 

[ QUOTE ]
From NobelPrize.Org:

[ QUOTE ]
The Nobel Peace Prize goes to the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) and Albert Arnold (Al) Gore Jr. "for their efforts to build up and disseminate greater knowledge about man-made climate change, and to lay the foundations for the measures that are needed to counteract such change". Read More

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Edit: Just noticed this was already posted in the Politics forum. Gonna leave it up anyway as I think the discussion here will be different.

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This world is going down the gutter and it's not because of CO2.

Re: Al Gore Wins Nobel Peace Prize
 

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he just barely beat out Will Smith for his work on Hitch.

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Thanks to Will, I'm much better now.

Re: Al Gore Wins Nobel Peace Prize
 

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This world is going down the gutter

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I believe that I first heard this profound statement in the mid fifties. Then echoed throughout the sixties. Yes, again at the end of Nixon's second term. And yet again during the Carter years. Oh and in the mid eighties, I believe, that once again the world was on the brink of global disater because of Reagan and his Soviet union views. The nineties did not produce this statement very often to my recollection. Even with Iraq. I believe the doomsday folk were too busy thinking about whether a president should be allowed to get a blow job on the job. I really thought that was how people got "a head". Oh, well.

So here we are, now, after the end of the world has come and gone and we are still just heading for the gutter. Does anyone know the real ETA? Hmmmm....I wonder if Gore knows or is trying to find out so that if he's right we can stop or change our direction. What a silly thought.

pokervintage

Re: Al Gore Wins Nobel Peace Prize
 

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This world is going down the gutter and it's not because of CO2.

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I agree...it's because of overpopulation.

Re: Al Gore Wins Nobel Peace Prize
 

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I didn't know the Nobel organization gave out a prize for fiction.

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Quoted For Stupidity

Re: Al Gore Wins Nobel Peace Prize
 

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This world is going down the gutter and it's not because of CO2.

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I agree...it's because of overpopulation.

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so when are they going to face up to the truth, its not fridges or cars or... that's the problem.

The problem is people who have kids and look after their health. Huge cash incentives to the heavy drinking, 40 a day, overweight childless is what the world needs.

chez

Re: Al Gore Wins Nobel Peace Prize
 

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This world is going down the gutter

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I believe that I first heard this profound statement in the mid fifties. Then echoed throughout the sixties. Yes, again at the end of Nixon's second term. And yet again during the Carter years. Oh and in the mid eighties, I believe, that once again the world was on the brink of global disater because of Reagan and his Soviet union views. The nineties did not produce this statement very often to my recollection. Even with Iraq. I believe the doomsday folk were too busy thinking about whether a president should be allowed to get a blow job on the job. I really thought that was how people got "a head". Oh, well.

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Yes, the world has been constantly sliding into the gutter throughout that time. Your point?

Re: Al Gore Wins Nobel Peace Prize
 

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I didn't know the Nobel organization gave out a prize for fiction.

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Quoted For Stupidity

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Truth is stupidity
War is peace
Freedom is slavery
Ignorance is strength

Re: Al Gore Wins Nobel Peace Prize
 

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Yes, the world has been constantly sliding into the gutter throughout that time. Your point?


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My point is that those that believe that the WORLD is sliding into the gutter are just as wrong now as they were in the past.

pokervintage

Re: Al Gore Wins Nobel Peace Prize
 

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Yes, the world has been constantly sliding into the gutter throughout that time. Your point?


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My point is that those that believe that the WORLD is sliding into the gutter are just as wrong now as they were in the past.

pokervintage

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Its just a slight abuse of language and a tendancy to egotise a bit. When they talk about a calamity for humanity they mean a calamity for those caught up in it.

living through WW1/2 etc was a disaster for huge numbers of people - THEIR would did fall into the gutter. A few generations later it makes not a jot of difference. The same is true for nearly all the so called calamatous consequences of climate change.

but its only a minor exaggeration because no-one cares much of a jot for the future generations so the jots cancel out.

chez

Re: Al Gore Wins Nobel Peace Prize
 

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but its only a minor exaggeration because no-one cares much of a jot for the future generations

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maybe i'm too young to know, but i don't think this is true

Re: Al Gore Wins Nobel Peace Prize
 

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a tendancy to egotise a bit.

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More than just a bit.

Would you agree that we, the colletive individuals, do have a choice to at least try, even in the smallest manner, to change a course that we feel is wrong.

Of course I'm speaking of those that do give at least "a jot" about future generations. You see you are wrong about NOONE caring. Al Gore seems to and I know that I do.

pokervintage

Re: Al Gore Wins Nobel Peace Prize
 

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a tendancy to egotise a bit.

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More than just a bit.

Would you agree that we, the colletive individuals, do have a choice to at least try, even in the smallest manner, to change a course that we feel is wrong.

Of course I'm speaking of those that do give at least "a jot" about future generations. You see you are wrong about NOONE caring. Al Gore seems to and I know that I do.

pokervintage

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No he doesn't seem to care about future generation - that's the point. If he really did then climate change is almost irrelevent. Possibly more than irrelevnt in that the future generations tend to do rather well from disasters in the past.

chez

Re: Al Gore Wins Nobel Peace Prize
 

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If he really did then climate change is almost irrelevent.

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That's interesting. Now, I take it that this is your opinion. Perhaps based on the opinions of scientists that you believe are competent in this field. I know from folllowing Al Gore's work in this field that he bases his opinion on the work and opinions of many experts in this field.

Now, I'm not saying that I know whose scientists are correct but the fact is that if Al's are correct then his work has relevance and we must listen to him. In fact anyone that claims he cares about future generations must listen and heed Al's conclusions even if Al is not 100%correct. Because if we dont and he is right then we have let down those future generations that we claim we care about. If we are wrong then no harm is done to the future generations. If we are wrong it only means that we, this generation, must sacrifice a little. Climate change if in fact it occurs because of our negligence is not irrelevant to those that follow.

pokervintage

Re: Al Gore Wins Nobel Peace Prize
 

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If he really did then climate change is almost irrelevent.

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That's interesting. Now, I take it that this is your opinion. Perhaps based on the opinions of scientists that you believe are competent in this field. I know from folllowing Al Gore's work in this field that he bases his opinion on the work and opinions of many experts in this field.

Now, I'm not saying that I know whose scientists are correct but the fact is that if Al's are correct then his work has relevance and we must listen to him. In fact anyone that claims he cares about future generations must listen and heed Al's conclusions even if Al is not 100%correct. Because if we dont and he is right then we have let down those future generations that we claim we care about. If we are wrong then no harm is done to the future generations. If we are wrong it only means that we, this generation, must sacrifice a little. Climate change if in fact it occurs because of our negligence is not irrelevant to those that follow.

pokervintage

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What scientist in the field are saying climate change matters a jot to future generations. What calamity are they predicting for those born in 2500?

I think you're missing the point and fixated on those who will suffer during climate change and in the immediate aftermath.

chez

Re: Al Gore Wins Nobel Peace Prize
 

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I think you're missing the point and fixated on those who will suffer during climate change and in the immediate aftermath.


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This sounds like the statement of an evolutionist that believes in survival of the fitist. If a calamity occurs, something similar to the plague, those that survive will be stronger and thus better off for the calamity. You accept that the immediate generations after a calamity will suffer but that some how later generations won't suffer in the same way. Somehow they will adapt and adjust. Sounds optimistic. Sounds like we should welcome the calamity so that future man can live better. Sounds like we should welcome global warming. Sounds like you are basing your opinion on something you have no way of knowing. That is, how do you know what kind of calamity global warming will cause and to what extent it will affect future generations. What if the calamity is on the same scale or greater than that that has caused extinction of species in the past. What if there was posibilty that the calamity would cause extinction of our species. Would it be relevant then?

pokervintage

Re: Al Gore Wins Nobel Peace Prize
 

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I think you're missing the point and fixated on those who will suffer during climate change and in the immediate aftermath.


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This sounds like the statement of an evolutionist that believes in survival of the fitist. If a calamity occurs, something similar to the plague, those that survive will be stronger and thus better off for the calamity. You accept that the immediate generations after a calamity will suffer but that some how later generations won't suffer in the same way. Somehow they will adapt and adjust. Sounds optimistic. Sounds like we should welcome the calamity so that future man can live better. Sounds like we should welcome global warming. Sounds like you are basing your opinion on something you have no way of knowing. That is, how do you know what kind of calamity global warming will cause and to what extent it will affect future generations. What if the calamity is on the same scale or greater than that that has caused extinction of species in the past. What if there was posibilty that the calamity would cause extinction of our species. Would it be relevant then?

pokervintage

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Nothing to do with survival of the fittest.

Yes extinction would be exactly a calamity for humanity unlike nearly all the predictions of climate change. Which scientists are predicting extinction?

chez

Re: Al Gore Wins Nobel Peace Prize
 

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Yes extinction would be exactly a calamity for humanity unlike nearly all the predictions of climate change. Which scientists are predicting extinction?


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I dont know if any are. Does it matter?

pokervintage

Re: Al Gore Wins Nobel Peace Prize
 

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Yes extinction would be exactly a calamity for humanity unlike nearly all the predictions of climate change. Which scientists are predicting extinction?


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I dont know if any are. Does it matter?

pokervintage

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only because you seemed to think I was disagreeing with the scientists, which I'm not.

chez

Re: Al Gore Wins Nobel Peace Prize
 

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Yes extinction would be exactly a calamity for humanity unlike nearly all the predictions of climate change. Which scientists are predicting extinction?


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I dont know if any are. Does it matter?

pokervintage

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only because you seemed to think I was disagreeing with the scientists, which I'm not.

chez

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sorry if i missed the point, but is it: that
we should wait, at least for a little while, before acting on Global Warming?

Re: Al Gore Wins Nobel Peace Prize
 

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Yes extinction would be exactly a calamity for humanity unlike nearly all the predictions of climate change. Which scientists are predicting extinction?


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I dont know if any are. Does it matter?

pokervintage

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only because you seemed to think I was disagreeing with the scientists, which I'm not.

chez

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sorry if i missed the point, but is it: that
we should wait, at least for a little while, before acting on Global Warming?

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definitely nothing to do with the point.

chez

Re: Al Gore Wins Nobel Peace Prize
 

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only because you seemed to think I was disagreeing with the scientists, which I'm not.


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No, it appeared to me that you believe that Gore did not consider the impact of global warming on the lives of future generations. And that you feel that even if a calamity strikes a future generaton it will only adversely affect those caught up in it. Which to me is reason enough to take action. But you seem to think that those that will be affected are irrelevant because later generations will somehow fare well from a calamity. You seem to be willing to take a chance with the welfare of those generations when the truth is that we have no way of knowing the extent of damage we may cause.

Oh, I do believe that extintion of some species are predicted due to the affects of global warming. I'm not sure which. But isn't that also something we should be concerned about as caring human beings?

pokervintage

Re: Al Gore Wins Nobel Peace Prize
 

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But you seem to think that those that will be affected are irrelevant because later generations will somehow fare well from a calamity.

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Never said or suggested that those who are affected are irrelevent. Just that there's likely to be no downside for future generations and quite possible an upside.

chez

Re: Al Gore Wins Nobel Peace Prize
 

Oh well. Have a good night.

pokervintage

Re: Al Gore Wins Nobel Peace Prize
 

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Oh well. Have a good night.

pokervintage

[/ QUOTE ]txs I expect to as fortunately past calamities had no downside for us and quite possible an upside [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

chez

Re: Al Gore Wins Nobel Peace Prize
 

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This world is going down the gutter and it's not because of CO2.

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I agree...it's because of overpopulation.

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Am I allowed to use this in arguments with Christians and people (like InTheDark and IronUnkind) who claim that the Christian philosophy >>>> secularism? IOW, I can throw out the Crusades and the Inquisition and all of that and just use this argument for why religion is the most destructive force on Earth?

Re: Al Gore Wins Nobel Peace Prize
 

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This world is going down the gutter and it's not because of CO2.

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I agree...it's because of overpopulation.

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Am I allowed to use this in arguments with Christians and people (like InTheDark and IronUnkind) who claim that the Christian philosophy >>>> secularism? IOW, I can throw out the Crusades and the Inquisition and all of that and just use this argument for why religion is the most destructive force on Earth?

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over population? i guess if it was an actual problem, then i suppose you could.

but, you atheist folks will argue, regardless, so argue on...

Re: Al Gore Wins Nobel Peace Prize
 

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This world is going down the gutter and it's not because of CO2.

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I agree...it's because of overpopulation.

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Am I allowed to use this in arguments with Christians and people (like InTheDark and IronUnkind) who claim that the Christian philosophy >>>> secularism? IOW, I can throw out the Crusades and the Inquisition and all of that and just use this argument for why religion is the most destructive force on Earth?

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over population? i guess if it was an actual problem, then i suppose you could.

but, you atheist folks will argue, regardless, so argue on...

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Try to pay attention, I am arguing with Phil, who is also an atheist.

FWIW overpopulation isn't really a problem right NOW but could become one in the near future. So I don't really know what your point was on that front either.

Re: Al Gore Wins Nobel Peace Prize
 

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This world is going down the gutter and it's not because of CO2.

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I agree...it's because of overpopulation.

[/ QUOTE ]

Am I allowed to use this in arguments with Christians and people (like InTheDark and IronUnkind) who claim that the Christian philosophy >>>> secularism? IOW, I can throw out the Crusades and the Inquisition and all of that and just use this argument for why religion is the most destructive force on Earth?

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over population? i guess if it was an actual problem, then i suppose you could.

but, you atheist folks will argue, regardless, so argue on...

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Try to pay attention, I am arguing with Phil, who is also an atheist.

FWIW overpopulation isn't really a problem right NOW but could become one in the near future. So I don't really know what your point was on that front either.

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how does you telling me that "Phil" is an atheist change anything i said??

maybe you're the one not paying attention.

Re: Al Gore Wins Nobel Peace Prize
 

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This world is going down the gutter and it's not because of CO2.

[/ QUOTE ]
I agree...it's because of overpopulation.

[/ QUOTE ]

Am I allowed to use this in arguments with Christians and people (like InTheDark and IronUnkind) who claim that the Christian philosophy >>>> secularism? IOW, I can throw out the Crusades and the Inquisition and all of that and just use this argument for why religion is the most destructive force on Earth?

[/ QUOTE ]

over population? i guess if it was an actual problem, then i suppose you could.

but, you atheist folks will argue, regardless, so argue on...

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Try to pay attention, I am arguing with Phil, who is also an atheist.

FWIW overpopulation isn't really a problem right NOW but could become one in the near future. So I don't really know what your point was on that front either.

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how does you telling me that "Phil" is an atheist change anything i said??

maybe you're the one not paying attention.

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Ok, maybe I just assumed you were actually trying to make some kind of point. Besides the "overpopulation isn't a problem" comment, what exactly was the point of your statement "but you atheists will argue..."

Re: Al Gore Wins Nobel Peace Prize
 

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[ QUOTE ]
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This world is going down the gutter and it's not because of CO2.

[/ QUOTE ]
I agree...it's because of overpopulation.

[/ QUOTE ]

Am I allowed to use this in arguments with Christians and people (like InTheDark and IronUnkind) who claim that the Christian philosophy >>>> secularism? IOW, I can throw out the Crusades and the Inquisition and all of that and just use this argument for why religion is the most destructive force on Earth?

[/ QUOTE ]

over population? i guess if it was an actual problem, then i suppose you could.

but, you atheist folks will argue, regardless, so argue on...

[/ QUOTE ]

Try to pay attention, I am arguing with Phil, who is also an atheist.

FWIW overpopulation isn't really a problem right NOW but could become one in the near future. So I don't really know what your point was on that front either.

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how does you telling me that "Phil" is an atheist change anything i said??

maybe you're the one not paying attention.

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Ok, maybe I just assumed you were actually trying to make some kind of point. Besides the "overpopulation isn't a problem" comment, what exactly was the point of your statement "but you atheists will argue..."

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no big deal. maybe i am running in circles here. i saw the overpopulation quote and then the hit on christians. i see people bring up the overpopulation excuse and it makes me wince a little...

the athiest arguing statement is neither here nor there. although you guys seem to be very defensive and militant, to me, about your views...

Re: Al Gore Wins Nobel Peace Prize
 

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I didn't know the Nobel organization gave out a prize for fiction.

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No doubt. Unreal.

Re: Al Gore Wins Nobel Peace Prize
 

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No he doesn't seem to care about future generation - that's the point. If he really did then climate change is almost irrelevent. Possibly more than irrelevnt in that the future generations tend to do rather well from disasters in the past.

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This argument is absurd on its face. Or, at the least, suggests that we should be actively causing disasters for the betterment of humanity. Who's taking donations so we can steer big asteroids INTO collision paths?

Re: Al Gore Wins Nobel Peace Prize
 

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living through WW1/2 etc was a disaster for huge numbers of people - THEIR would did fall into the gutter. A few generations later it makes not a jot of difference.

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The past makes more than a jot of difference on the present. The colonization and arbitrary border drawing done by European powers, for example, continues to cause a ton of problems. Iraq and Israel/Palestine are the ones most currently relevant.

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Possibly more than irrelevnt in that the future generations tend to do rather well from disasters in the past.

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In some cases, such as developing disease immunities, but certainly not in all cases.

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What scientist in the field are saying climate change matters a jot to future generations. What calamity are they predicting for those born in 2500?

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First, how are those suffering during the crisis and the aftermath not "future generations"? You are equating "future generations" with "all future generations". Saying someone cares about future generations does not mean their given specific concerns must be relevant for those in the year 5000. This is a nitpick, but it seems to render the argument between you two somewhat irrelevant.

Second, many things from 500 years ago still affect us and I see no reason to believe that there would be no negative consequences on those living in 2500 from a major climate change disaster of the past. That seems more likely to me than the other way around. This can't be proven, but it can be speculated on. Why do you feel they'd likely be better off?

Re: Al Gore Wins Nobel Peace Prize
 

The world is not overopulated. Most of the scarciies attributed to overpopulation are better explaind by political arrangements.

[He said, hoping to elicit a Feeney sighting.]

Re: Al Gore Wins Nobel Peace Prize
 

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The world is not overopulated. Most of the scarciies attributed to overpopulation are better explaind by political arrangements.

[He said, hoping to elicit a Feeney sighting.]

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True, but I think the point is not that we're overpopulated currently. It's that the population is growing exponentially and the world will soon be overpopulated.