Starting out online
 

Looking for some advice for a relative newcomer.

Have been playing for about six months, just thru a home game with friends/colleagues. Have read an awful lot about the game and developed some skills but simply need to build experience at the table.

Have opened a small bankroll online account at PokerStars.

Have played a couple of sessions at microlimits for mixed succes, playing

solely SNGs. Found it hard to put players on groups of likely hands, wasn't sure if I was being pushed out of some pots I was ahead in - a lot easier to read the home game players that I playe every week and know their style.

My time online is very limited - usually for just a couple of hrs once or twice a week.

What's the best options for me? Are SNGs the best option or should I play STT?

How aggressive/passive are players at the microlimits?

Any advice greatly appreciated.

Re: Starting out online
 

Play cash games NL full ring to start this is the best training ground.

The fact that you are short on time is not good for MMT because they need you to spend a lot of time on them which you dont have

good luck

Re: Starting out online
 

[ QUOTE ]
Play cash games NL full ring to start this is the best training ground.

[/ QUOTE ]

Can't agree with this.

I think low buy in SnG's are great for new players especially if your home game was structured like a SnG. Presumably, you have watched some tv games that are 95% tourneys as well.

You will get a lot of poker for your money and it is this experience that will help you. No short cuts i'm afraid, just play and get used to online poker. You can't get the same kind of read on players that you will have have in your home games agaist regular players - that is just the nature of the online beast.

Re: Starting out online
 

Please explain why SnGs are the best way to learn how to play poker.

sit n gos=

lots of alls in preflop
playing short stacked
not as much post flop play
more variance

so is that what you think is best for a new player..... instead of playing deep stack cash gmaes which creates a much deeper understanding of the game instead of oh.... cool AK im all in

you forget that playing post flop is where you make your money

so if you want to have fun put your money in on a coin flip half the time and play like pros on tv thats cool donk and play sit n gos

but if you want to become a better player who understands all concepts of the game pre flop and post flop than play full ring cash games to start with

What ever you choose........ GOOD LUCK

Re: Starting out online
 

SnGs can be great for the beginning player as they're a fairly low-risk endeavour compared to cash games.

If you do have the bankroll though, I'd say go straight to FR cash.

Especially with your time constraint, you're going to find it hard to make any meaningful gains playing SnGs.

GL

Re: Starting out online
 

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Please explain why SnGs are the best way to learn how to play poker.

[/ QUOTE ]

New players nowdays tend to start with tourneys becuase that is what they see on TV. Not saying it is right or wrong but just the way it is now. New home games tend to be structured as a SnG because they are fun.

New to online and poker I just think have fun and enjoy it. SnG's are very low risk and you can get lots of action.

Once a player is comfortable playing online and perhaps moving to a more serious player he needs to find his best game (SnGs, MTT's, FR NL cash, Limit cash, short handed, heads up, Omaha, Stud, HE, etc, the choices are limitless).

Just have fun to start. Just as I see it. I may be wrong. and as you said good luck to the OP.

Re: Starting out online
 

.01/.02 NL full ring is the best place to start.

SNGs are a total waste of time. It's not real poker.

Re: Starting out online
 

[ QUOTE ]
.01/.02 NL full ring is the best place to start.

SNGs are a total waste of time. It's not real poker.

[/ QUOTE ]

I disagree,SNG's are the cheapest and best way to get crucial short-handed experience i.e. heads-up

Re: Starting out online
 

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SNGs are a total waste of time. It's not real poker.

[/ QUOTE ]

LOL - not that old dumbass view

Re: Starting out online
 

I`d try the 2 and 3 table SnGs rather than STTs.

The blind structures are usually closer to the home games you will be used to and their run time will fit in with you. (about 2 hrs)

have a look at the prima network

Re: Starting out online
 

I would play 2-5 table SnG's at the lowest possible buy-in. Cash games are a good way to lose your small bankroll in a very short time and STT need a specific strategy to cash in them consistently. Look at it this way: If you play a .01/.02 cash game and buy-in for $2, you might spend around $10 in only an hour. 45 player SnG last 1.5-2 hours and cost only $1.20 or $1.25 - much more value for the money imo.

Re: Starting out online
 

OP, what did you use as a deposit option on Pokerstars? I'm trying to get back online and Epassporte SUCKS, it takes so long to open an account with them. Any suggestions anyone? thanks

Re: Starting out online
 

Now that my roll allows it I play only cash but built my roll from $50 to just over $700 in 3 months playing the 3.25 45 man 5 table sit n go on Stars. Play uber tight until blinds reach 50-100 then you can start to play poker.

I agree cash is better for me now but the risk reward ratio in these are awesome. I would have probably lost my initial deposit had I started playing cash. As compared to tourneys ring games are a different game altogether in terms of strategy.

Re: Starting out online
 

[ QUOTE ]
I would play 2-5 table SnG's at the lowest possible buy-in. Cash games are a good way to lose your small bankroll in a very short time and STT need a specific strategy to cash in them consistently. Look at it this way: If you play a .01/.02 cash game and buy-in for $2, you might spend around $10 in only an hour. 45 player SnG last 1.5-2 hours and cost only $1.20 or $1.25 - much more value for the money imo.

[/ QUOTE ]

.2/.5 - I did great. Then I moved down a step after reading about BR management
.1/.2 - Lost a ton of $$ (crazy ass players that I didn't know what to do with)

Then I moved to $3.40 single-table SnGs... and have been winning consistently for 3 months. It's because I have a strategy that helps me place in the money.

I look forward to the day when my BR is big enough that I can lose a lot of $$ learning cash games better...

Re: Starting out online
 

[ QUOTE ]
OP, what did you use as a deposit option on Pokerstars? I'm trying to get back online and Epassporte SUCKS, it takes so long to open an account with them. Any suggestions anyone? thanks

[/ QUOTE ]

E-passporte seems to be the best way to make small deposits for an American player, though the steps and time you have to go through to get it started are indeed annoying.

The other option is sending the money Western Union. I think the minimum is $100, but it certainly won't take the two weeks required to get up and running with an E-passporte account.

Re: Starting out online
 

I started playing dollar sngs on stars recently, having played mostly cash games before that. Putting players on hands seems to be impossible. For example, I dealt KK, raise, get I caller, flop comes A 10 9, I bet he calls, turn is a 6, I bet he calls, river is a 2, I'm spooked so I check and he checks... what do you think he had?

Re: Starting out online
 

I would say that cash games are the best training ground for learning to play poker as a general rule. If you have a decent bankroll and you are willing to lose a little to learn the game, this is the way to go. The variance in SnGs will leave you wondering if you really know the game at all. The fact that your odds equal your equity in cash games will help you assess more quickly if what you are doing is playing winning poker. Plus you get to learn the ins-and-outs of preflop and postflop play (if you want to concentrate on preflop play, you can shortstack).

Basically, it is like this, good cash-game players don't have much issue beating SnGs, but good SnG players have much more difficulty beating cash games. So go to the proper training grounds if you want to learn poker. If you just want to earn money with a rather simple form of poker with a pretty well-defined mathematical strategy, go for SnGs.

Re: Starting out online
 

Thanks for all the feedback guys - 1st chance I've had to get back to the thread in a few days...
Will have a read, soak up the advice and let u know where I head next and how I get on...

Re: Starting out online
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I would play 2-5 table SnG's at the lowest possible buy-in. Cash games are a good way to lose your small bankroll in a very short time and STT need a specific strategy to cash in them consistently. Look at it this way: If you play a .01/.02 cash game and buy-in for $2, you might spend around $10 in only an hour. 45 player SnG last 1.5-2 hours and cost only $1.20 or $1.25 - much more value for the money imo.

[/ QUOTE ]

.2/.5 - I did great. Then I moved down a step after reading about BR management
.1/.2 - Lost a ton of $$ (crazy ass players that I didn't know what to do with)

Then I moved to $3.40 single-table SnGs... and have been winning consistently for 3 months. It's because I have a strategy that helps me place in the money.

I look forward to the day when my BR is big enough that I can lose a lot of $$ learning cash games better...

[/ QUOTE ]

So what you're saying is you suck at poker and you can only win at donkaments?

SNGs are not real poker. Yes you can learn to beat them, but that has jack **** to do with how good a poker player you are. If you want to be a good POKER PLAYER, not a SNG DONK, you have to play the NL (or limit if you so choose) cash games.

Anybody that says otherwise is a tourney donk who doesn't know how to play real poker.

Re: Starting out online
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I would play 2-5 table SnG's at the lowest possible buy-in. Cash games are a good way to lose your small bankroll in a very short time and STT need a specific strategy to cash in them consistently. Look at it this way: If you play a .01/.02 cash game and buy-in for $2, you might spend around $10 in only an hour. 45 player SnG last 1.5-2 hours and cost only $1.20 or $1.25 - much more value for the money imo.

[/ QUOTE ]

.2/.5 - I did great. Then I moved down a step after reading about BR management
.1/.2 - Lost a ton of $$ (crazy ass players that I didn't know what to do with)

Then I moved to $3.40 single-table SnGs... and have been winning consistently for 3 months. It's because I have a strategy that helps me place in the money.

I look forward to the day when my BR is big enough that I can lose a lot of $$ learning cash games better...

[/ QUOTE ]

So what you're saying is you suck at poker and you can only win at donkaments?

SNGs are not real poker. Yes you can learn to beat them, but that has jack **** to do with how good a poker player you are. If you want to be a good POKER PLAYER, not a SNG DONK, you have to play the NL (or limit if you so choose) cash games.

Anybody that says otherwise is a tourney donk who doesn't know how to play real poker.

[/ QUOTE ]

LOL - I take it you can't beat the donks then.

It does make me laugh when idiots say this. Tourneys, be they SnG or MTT are a form of poker. Different skills required to cash games I agree but poker it is.

It is like saying draw poker is pure poker as opposed to Holdem or that Omaha is real poker and stud is not. Is limit more pure than no limit? Or the other way round? Is razz a proper game? What about HORSE?

There are so many different forms and formats of poker and tourneys are just one of them. Of course if you can't beat them I see why you would argue they are not poker.

Re: Starting out online
 

I don't waste my time with donkaments.

I could win the WSOP next year and I would still hold the same opinion. Norman Chad would ask me how I feel and I would say "Well Norman, I won the lottery. I sifted through all the donks out here and came out on top. 98% of these players are awful and would get absolutely destroyed in my regular 2/5 game. Donkaments are not poker, but I'll take the $X million, thanks."

Draw, Stud, Community Card...these are "forms" of poker. Donkaments is not a "form" of poker. It is just a bastardization of it.

Re: Starting out online
 

[ QUOTE ]


So what you're saying is you suck at poker and you can only win at donkaments?

SNGs are not real poker. Yes you can learn to beat them, but that has jack **** to do with how good a poker player you are. If you want to be a good POKER PLAYER, not a SNG DONK, you have to play the NL (or limit if you so choose) cash games.

Anybody that says otherwise is a tourney donk who doesn't know how to play real poker.

[/ QUOTE ]

Evank - Here are a few quotes from your blog dated Sep 2, 2006.

'Why is there hatred in the world?'
'What is gained by spreading hate?'
'The way I see it, if only the world would "live and let live", then the world would be one step closer to the utopian world I dream of.'
'I mean tolerance of every person, regardless of whatever differences they may have from what you deem normal or acceptable.'

Your point will be better received if you use less venom.

Re: Starting out online
 

lol @ first post exposing Evank

nh

Re: Starting out online
 

It's advice. There's no venom there. It's all the truth.

Odd first post though for sure.

And exposing me for what? For being a bleeding heart socialist pacifist? Guilty as charged. That's not something that I hide.

Re: Starting out online
 

[ QUOTE ]
I don't waste my time with donkaments.

I could win the WSOP next year and I would still hold the same opinion. Norman Chad would ask me how I feel and I would say "Well Norman, I won the lottery. I sifted through all the donks out here and came out on top. 98% of these players are awful and would get absolutely destroyed in my regular 2/5 game. Donkaments are not poker, but I'll take the $X million, thanks."

Draw, Stud, Community Card...these are "forms" of poker. Donkaments is not a "form" of poker. It is just a bastardization of it.

[/ QUOTE ]

Says it all for me.

Condescening twidle twadle.

Re: Starting out online
 

You posters that think cash games/tournaments/SNGs aren't all challenging and require different skills need to stop regurgitating crap you hear someone else say. Some players are better suited to certain formats more than others, that's all. You might be very skilled with ICM and endgame play as a SNG player, things a cash game player might know little about, just as an example.

I mean I'm a strictly cash player and lol donkaments, but I don't think some people appreciate that there is more to tourneys than lol AK shove.

The OP mentioned he only has a couple of hours to play a week though. You think he should multitable ring games or something as opposed to SNGs? PLease. He's not going to have much of a long term with his limited time to play.

Re: Starting out online
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I would play 2-5 table SnG's at the lowest possible buy-in. Cash games are a good way to lose your small bankroll in a very short time and STT need a specific strategy to cash in them consistently. Look at it this way: If you play a .01/.02 cash game and buy-in for $2, you might spend around $10 in only an hour. 45 player SnG last 1.5-2 hours and cost only $1.20 or $1.25 - much more value for the money imo.

[/ QUOTE ]

.2/.5 - I did great. Then I moved down a step after reading about BR management
.1/.2 - Lost a ton of $$ (crazy ass players that I didn't know what to do with)

Then I moved to $3.40 single-table SnGs... and have been winning consistently for 3 months. It's because I have a strategy that helps me place in the money.

I look forward to the day when my BR is big enough that I can lose a lot of $$ learning cash games better...

[/ QUOTE ]

So what you're saying is you suck at poker and you can only win at donkaments?

SNGs are not real poker. Yes you can learn to beat them, but that has jack **** to do with how good a poker player you are. If you want to be a good POKER PLAYER, not a SNG DONK, you have to play the NL (or limit if you so choose) cash games.

Anybody that says otherwise is a tourney donk who doesn't know how to play real poker.

[/ QUOTE ]

lol

I don't play tourneys often (and when I do it is usually higher buy-in big multi-tables), but SNGs are "real" poker. It is poker that requires a different calculus and skill set from ring games, but it is poker nonetheless. If you learn to be a good SNG player you will have an opportunity to make good money playing poker: There are lots of people that make a good living multi-tabling SNGs. Will you be a good cash game player? Not necessarily. Poker skills don't translate seamlessly from one game to the next: A expert stud player might be a dog in NLHE; Lots of decent NLHE players suck at PLO; Good NLHE players often suck at limit poker.

Lucky

Re: Starting out online
 

Thanks again guys....
To illuminate things a little, is anyone able to give me an idea of how play differs in the ring games tactically from SNGs?