On being a \"poker snob\"
 

Let me start out by saying that I don't know where this thread really belongs and thought for a while before posting it here. If it doesn't, mods accept my apologies and please move.

OK, so recently I have stepped up my playing from part-time to almost as a second income. I work a regular day job and have a wife and son. My wife is TEH NUTZ when it comes to me playing and has no problems about me going off and putting in a session pretty much whenever I please.

Prior to this I did play in a casino a good deal, but not at the frequency I am now. As a result, I have pretty much stopped putting together the home game I used to host. The game, while actually having reasonably decent players, was usually for only $10-20.

I said to another friend of mine who plays as a FT job while in college last night that I find it incredibly difficult to get my "poker juices" flowing for a total pot of $50-60. Like damn near impossible. As a result, I usually play terrible in these home games and am a LAGtard x 1,000 because I don't take it seriously.

I was asked recently if I thought I was a "poker snob" because I would much rather sit at a table with 8 strangers with a total of around $2-3K on the table vs. playing in a home tournament where first prize is $50.

My counter was that if I'm going to do an all-nighter and spend time away from my wife and son, I want to make it financially worth my while. Plus, I can't take such a low stakes, more social event seriously.

I ask this because I have another friend who is a very decent player however from what it sounds like from what he tells me, his wife is not as cool with him going casino playing like mine is. Like she's virtually not ever. He's only been to the local casino with us twice and every time we ask him, he always has something going on or whatever.

This is where I'm torn because he's a good friend and I respect his game. He could absolutely hold his own in any of my regular casino games. However, since the only chance he gets to play is the home tournaments, he takes those very seriously which I understand.

Is it wrong that I don't feel bad at all nor do I want to organize a home game just so he and a few others from our circle can play? Also, anyone else have experience with this topic? Like your friends are having a $20 home game but you choose to go take a couple hundred or more to the local casino or log on to Stars/UB/etc. because you take the game more seriously?

I like making teh monies when I play and if I'm going to dedicate 6-8 hours or more of my life to playing, I want it to be financially worth my while.

Or am I just being a jackass who ditches his friends for a poker game? [img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]

Re: On being a \"poker snob\"
 

cliff notes plz

Re: On being a \"poker snob\"
 

Make a big last longer bet with your friend and play the home games. Solves the problem, imo.

Re: On being a \"poker snob\"
 

If you are playing poker to make money then do that. Don't let your game selection suffer because your friend's wife selection sucks.

Re: On being a \"poker snob\"
 

Part of being a professional is not giving it away free. If you don't respect the value of your time at the poker table, ain't nobody gonna give a good cahoot.

We're not talking about charity here, a lawyer might take a pro bono case, a poker pro might play in a charity tournament. That's helping a worthy cause, not devaluing your profession. Your friend likes your home game, but can't organize one himself; if you were a mechanic, would you repair his car for free because he couldn't and his wife didn't like spending money?

I started with friendly poker, moved on to taking it so seriously that I couldn't play for small stakes, and only later in life learned to enjoy friendly games again (I still have trouble turning off the intensity or putting up with people who don't respect the game, I even have to bite my tongue at play-money casino night games). At your point, you can't afford to let misguided friendship get in the way of your career.

Re: On being a \"poker snob\"
 

Perhaps you should seperate social life and professional poker in your mind.

What is wrong, with playing badly in a small game for fun at home with friends?

Are you really wanting your friends to be a significant 3rd income for you?

Seems to me, playing rather badly and having a laugh is probably a way to be sociable and have fun with ppl. Why feel guilty that you don't play your A game, and be a Stone-Killer with these people?

It's rational to tone it down in these games, you're not playing to make money in those games, you're playing for fun!

Re: On being a \"poker snob\"
 

Im almost in identical shoes!
I play poker as my part-time job, and I barely play any hom games anymore...plus the games they play our $20 dollar buy ins and they set theblinds to go up so quick,that your really playing only the flop ever. The last "big" one I played, the buy in was 50 bucks...I was done in 20 minutes and left and went to the boat. I think its natural...its not like Pro basketball players, even ones that have been cut, are playing pick up games at the rec center..they are playing in a select "pick" up game where their time and effort are worth while.

Re: On being a \"poker snob\"
 

[ QUOTE ]
Perhaps you should seperate social life and professional poker in your mind.

What is wrong, with playing badly in a small game for fun at home with friends?

Are you really wanting your friends to be a significant 3rd income for you?

Seems to me, playing rather badly and having a laugh is probably a way to be sociable and have fun with ppl. Why feel guilty that you don't play your A game, and be a Stone-Killer with these people?

It's rational to tone it down in these games, you're not playing to make money in those games, you're playing for fun!

[/ QUOTE ]

The thing is, I don't know if I can seperate it. I have to be a Stone Killer all the time, or else I'm mad at myself. This is especially true when playing in home games. I can't bear the thought of anyone who would go busto in an hour in a casino game beating me for $10.

The money doesn't matter a bit to me, it's losing itself. I hate losing in poker, regardless of the stakes. I especially hate losing to inferior competition. They may be taking the game for fun, but I guarantee you someone at that table is thinking "[Insert random HG donk] never plays and just beat AC who plays all the time".

It sickens me to even think that might occur. Don't ask me why, it's like a switch I can't turn off.

Re: On being a \"poker snob\"
 

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The money doesn't matter a bit to me, it's losing itself. I hate losing in poker, regardless of the stakes. I especially hate losing to inferior competition. They may be taking the game for fun, but I guarantee you someone at that table is thinking "[Insert random HG donk] never plays and just beat AC who plays all the time".

It sickens me to even think that might occur. Don't ask me why, it's like a switch I can't turn off.

[/ QUOTE ]
Can't play poker with this attitude. You will lose sometimes.

Re: On being a \"poker snob\"
 

I'd say as long as you aren't totally neglecting your friends it's not a big deal. If this is the only time you guys get together I'd say you should continue playing the small game. Money isn't all it's about, you don't want to be working (either poker or real job) so hard that you don't spend any time with your friends.

Re: On being a \"poker snob\"
 

Not playing poker with your friends doesn't mean you can't spend time hanging out with them. Just explain to dude that you play so much poker during the week that in your off time the last thing you want to see is a poker table. This way you don't play in the home game and you're not alienating your friends. When they're up to it you can always go to a ballgame or do whatever.

Re: On being a \"poker snob\"
 

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It sickens me to even think that might occur. Don't ask me why, it's like a switch I can't turn off.

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[ QUOTE ]
Can't play poker with this attitude. You will lose sometimes.

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I agree with OP, not Pokerfarian. You can't play serious poker with any other attitude. Yes, you will lose sometimes, and you have to learn to deal with this--but not by lowering your intensity. You have to really care about the difference between a 51% and a 49% shot, even after three days of play with only a few power naps. You have to really care about $10 during a session when a million dollars moves in and out of your stack over a few thousand hands. But along with that intensity you have to be willing to back your judgment without a trace of a tell, and forget winning or losing as soon as it happens (but not the lessons from winning or losing).

Most people don't have that kind of intensity about poker, and they may be better or happier people for it. But serious poker is very intense.

Bill Parcells said that most players in the NFL, when it really came down to it, wanted not to embarass themselves and earn a paycheck. When he could get a Lawerence Taylor, who wanted to win more than anything, it would make all the difference for a championship. I don't know much about football, but I do know it's true in poker.

Re: On being a \"poker snob\"
 

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"[Insert random HG donk] never plays and just beat AC who plays all the time".

It sickens me to even think that might occur. Don't ask me why, it's like a switch I can't turn off.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree with AaronBrown, of course. His advice is always good.

I think it's good to care about how well you play. But it's also very important to let go of your ego. Sometimes you will lose. There's no way around it. Caring what other people think of your skill can only be detrimental. Worst case scenario, one of your friends thinks you suck and you end up playing HU for rolls. lol (that's a joke of course. "HU for rolls" is like a reminder that you shouldn't let your ego get in the way of your play (because playing HU for your roll is so irresponsible)).

As for whether you should break up the game, again I agree with AaronBrown, and I think he explained it very well in the second paragraph of his first post.

You've got to realize that, when playing poker, it's bad when people think you're clever. If all your friends think you're the luckiest, dumbest fish to ever play cards, that's a real accomplishment.

Re: On being a \"poker snob\"
 

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[ QUOTE ]
Perhaps you should seperate social life and professional poker in your mind.

What is wrong, with playing badly in a small game for fun at home with friends?


[/ QUOTE ]

The thing is, I don't know if I can seperate it. I have to be a Stone Killer all the time, or else I'm mad at myself. This is especially true when playing in home games. I can't bear the thought of anyone who would go busto in an hour in a casino game beating me for $10.


[/ QUOTE ]
Perhaps different goals would help. It's small money, so you say you play LAGtard and can't take it serious, but then you say you desperately want to win. There's some inconsistency, if you think about it. At the game, you're conflicted, not playing your best, but at same time wanting to win you say. If that's really true why wouldn't you play your usual way?

Small money is perhaps a rationalisation for apparently irrational playing decisions. Perhaps you're slipping because you actually really feel that doing fun stuff is more important at the home game you host.

As for ppl who'd go busto... I always found 'really bad and very lucky' is the most deadly combintation. They sure will beat me when they're on a heater.

Re: On being a \"poker snob\"
 

there is no such thing as playin for fun. i wouldnt soft play my mother!

Re: On being a \"poker snob\"
 

You'll make less money than someone more astute then.

Playing badly for small stakes, and then rather well when the stakes are much bigger, is a classic hustler trick.

Guess you just don't want to encourage 'Whales' into the Casino to play with you in the big game?

Re: On being a \"poker snob\"
 

you can always choose:
- have fun with friends
- make money

anyway, I'm a lagtard too in our 50 bucks first place tournys
(our tourneys don't last 8 hours though)

Re: On being a \"poker snob\"
 

I am kind of in the same boat except for the fact that these people became my friends after we started playing poker together, so I think they just call me for another seat at the table (my personality takes a little getting used to).

But anyway, I used to go about every week now I go once a month or so because as you say, why take it seriously to make $50 when they are just there to have fun. I feel bad taking advantage of people I know, and I have reads on all of them and no one seems to care or change up (most of them a baked as well).

So, I would just go play donkey poker when you can and let them know why you go to the casino the rest of the time.

Re: On being a \"poker snob\"
 

[ QUOTE ]
My wife is TEH NUTZ when it comes to me playing and has no problems about me going off and putting in a session pretty much whenever I please.

[/ QUOTE ]she's cheating on you ldo

Re: On being a \"poker snob\"
 

I think your plight is pretty common. I hosted a small home ring game for a couple of years, but when I started playing higher stakes it became a little tedious. I didn't really care about the game, I felt it was costing me money. After a while, I just decided it was better for me to cut back on serious poker and have more of a normal social life. I don't look at every recreational activity as costing me $XXX in poker opportunity cost.

OTOH, if you're playing for money that you actually want/need, you can't let your friends' desire for you to host a BS game make your life difficult. Even with a wife who is TEH NUTZ, you probably don't have unlimited poker time.

Re: On being a \"poker snob\"
 

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Make a big last longer bet with your friend and play the home games. Solves the problem, imo.

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I don't know why this hasn't been given more airtime. This is a great solution, IMO, and I employ it all the time with a friend of mine (we're about equal skillwise as well) whenever we play in bar freerolls, $.25-.50 home games with old buddies, etc. This depends, of course, on your friend being rolled enough to want to make this bet for enough money to make it "worth your while".

Myself, I love playing with different circumstances and people almost regardless of the stakes, as it can be good practice for "real money" game conditions that might never occur at your "regular" game but might crop up unexpectedly when you're in different situations, locations, etc. For instance, the first time I sat down at a summer weekend Trop pink chip game, I found myself thankful I'd logged all those hours of hyper-LAG no-fold-em quarter-ante poker with my college buddies. [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

Mook

Re: On being a \"poker snob\"
 

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The money doesn't matter a bit to me, it's losing itself. I hate losing in poker, regardless of the stakes. I especially hate losing to inferior competition. They may be taking the game for fun, but I guarantee you someone at that table is thinking "[Insert random HG donk] never plays and just beat AC who plays all the time".

It sickens me to even think that might occur. Don't ask me why, it's like a switch I can't turn off.

[/ QUOTE ]
Can't play poker with this attitude. You will lose sometimes.

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Agreed. The very best odds in poker will still means someone will get their cards 1/6 of the time when you completely "dominate" them. Thats over a huge number of cards too, where the numbers even out. Add in the true randomness of how the cards fall in the short term and you'll be doing a lot of losing. The only thing that should get to you is bad play on your part. That should make you mad because you knew better and made a bad decision anyway.

If that wasn't the case opponents would never even sit down. Would you play heads up chess vs Kasparov (or better yet Deep Junior) for money?

grunch
I say do whatever it takes to keep your game sharp and play in games that are worth it to you. As an analogy I work in the computer field, software. So when I get a call from someone needing assistance with a computer I tell them to call support, it's not worth my time. Not trying to be a dick, but my time is valuable to me. But if it's something that rewards me, like a relationship, then yes I'll do it. It's all about motivation. If it's joe schmoe neighbor having a problem tough [censored]. If it's girl next door with doe eyes, well that's a different story.