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A visual representation of FGators dollars (serious theory post)
Preface: Before I begin, this is a serious post. I am commenting on what I feel is one of the most integral parts of poker, and am highlighting examples and detailing who is capable of what. For once and all it should put to bed all of the FGators madness, and people can move on with their lives. It is not meant to call out Fgators, it is a last-ditch attempt to explain to him, and everyone, why he had such a humongous breakeven stretch.
---------------------------------------------- Okay, I was napping 3 days ago and dreamed a visual representation of why people win at 200nl and why other "good" players do not. In an environment like 200nl which is condusive to a bunch of regs and not entirely loose fish, I had an easy way of explaining things visually. http://img123.imageshack.us/img123/8294/fgatorslx9.jpg Player 1 is the perfect T/LAG. He is able to play tight but aggressively in situations pre and postflop to maximize value versus certain players in situations like vbetting hard and thin, and other things like floating and continually attacking more nitty regs with checkraising and floating. I think a few examples of players that were close to this achieved kharma but had some leaks due to overaggression were NoahSD and dont_bother1 they maximize their red by spazzing around and attacking relentlessly, but as a result of strong handreading capabilities they grasped it and destroyed. player 2 is the nitty tag. these guys are decent and handreading, know how to exploit weaker players very well, and are capable of mixing it up every now and then. however their true potential is hampered by only using a VPIP of 14 or so, instead opting for the grinder mentality that allows for maximimum MT Ratio and hourly (which, by all means, is perfectly fine, because odds are good they are taking more out of the game than anyone, BUT they choose to not try and earn more per hour in bigger games or on other pokersites which is meh) Players 3 and 5 are fish. the passive fish isnt able to get into as many coolers on account of playing them so passively, but overall loses in the game because he just doesn't have a clue. this should be obvious for both the passive and aggrotard fish. anyways, player 4 is our man fgators. fgators has a choice hand selection preflop that doesn't deviate, valuebets in a very transparent manner, can be easily read by opponents who can handread well (it is easier to know when to 2barrel him and when not to than many other regs), and for the most part plays the strength of his cards. Fgators can beat up on the fish, but often sits in games with the good TLAGS, and the good nits (needfood, greg1osu, etc), who will ONLY GIVE HIM ACTION ALL-IN IF IT'S A COOLER SITUATION (for the most part, barring extreme examples). so, the purple is the coolers. fgators sees these coolers as a huge force in his poker game, and why he thinks poker is all luck. The reason that is is largely due to his game, because his postfop style does lead a lot of things to luck, because so many of his large pots end up coming as a result of cooler situations. Talk to ISMAKIDD or stinkypete and they will tell you what is possibly with variance when you are often getting money in near a coinflip. you can run insanely hot or terrible over a long period of time. so, when fgators plays very little actual "real poker", much of it comes in situations whereif his cards and villain's cards were switched around, the money would still go in. and, if you know theory of poker, thats really bad. it just means that, to a small degree, fgators entire poker style for the most part is sophisticated coin flipping, because he leaves his "edge" as when the person giving him action is putting it in with a sub-optimal hand. when that no longer happens, fgators becomes a break-even player. this of course does not apply in live cashgames for the most part because villains will always put it in bad because they suck and are live players, and the same goes with tournaments. but for 200NL cash and higher, this is gator dollars. this is why you are in one of these categories, and it is why, to some extent, you should at least seek to become the perfect TLAG and not accept the grinder needfood mentality. you are capable of greater things. fgators is capable of greater things. but he chooses not to see poker as the red and the green, but rather the purple. so there. |
Re: A visual representation of FGators dollars (serious theory post)
75% the image and rehost, plzkthx
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Re: A visual representation of FGators dollars (serious theory post)
LOL THIS IS AWESOME
i [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] clayton |
Re: A visual representation of FGators dollars (serious theory post)
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75% the image and rehost, plzkthx [/ QUOTE ] you browse on a 7" black and green monitor or something? |
Re: A visual representation of FGators dollars (serious theory post)
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75% the image and rehost, plzkthx [/ QUOTE ] done |
Re: A visual representation of FGators dollars (serious theory post)
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[ QUOTE ] 75% the image and rehost, plzkthx [/ QUOTE ] you browse on a 7" black and green monitor or something? [/ QUOTE ] wtf?! no, dumbass, it's a 9" black and orange. geez, give a guy some credit. this isn't the [censored] stone age. |
Re: A visual representation of FGators dollars (serious theory post)
POTY
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Re: A visual representation of FGators dollars (serious theory post)
I expected this to be funny but it's actually just true. nj
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Re: A visual representation of FGators dollars (serious theory post)
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[ QUOTE ] 75% the image and rehost, plzkthx [/ QUOTE ] done [/ QUOTE ] much better. also, clayton, you're dead on here. it blows my mind why fgators can't see this ish with a million people telling him. edit: i'm dumb. |
Re: A visual representation of FGators dollars (serious theory post)
[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
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Re: A visual representation of FGators dollars (serious theory post)
[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
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Re: A visual representation of FGators dollars (serious theory post)
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[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] [/ QUOTE ] |
Re: A visual representation of FGators dollars (serious theory post)
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POTY [/ QUOTE ] |
Re: A visual representation of FGators dollars (serious theory post)
You know, if he ever "got it" he would wreak havoc on the games for months before any of us figured out what was going on.
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Re: A visual representation of FGators dollars (serious theory post)
I was all ready to say 'you try too hard' etc thinking this was just an FGators bashing post, but it actually is a pretty good representation of how people make money at this level.
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Re: A visual representation of FGators dollars (serious theory post)
love the hats, good points too
I wonder how often players like FGators ever value stack themselves? I would guess not often. |
Re: A visual representation of FGators dollars (serious theory post)
I like how the 'Perfect' guy is asian.
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Re: A visual representation of FGators dollars (serious theory post)
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I wonder how often players like FGators ever value stack themselves? I would guess not often. [/ QUOTE ] Never. Literally. |
Re: A visual representation of FGators dollars (serious theory post)
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I like how the 'Perfect' guy is asian. [/ QUOTE ] that wasnt my intent, he is supposed to have a steely and intimidating glare. ms paint just makes it asian. |
Re: A visual representation of FGators dollars (serious theory post)
Oh, I like it a bit less, I thought you were just saying that all asians are smarter than everyone. [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]
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Re: A visual representation of FGators dollars (serious theory post)
Great post. what are the squiggly lines on top of the cooler dollars?
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Re: A visual representation of FGators dollars (serious theory post)
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Oh, I like it a bit less, I thought you were just saying that all asians are smarter than everyone. [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img] [/ QUOTE ] Yves frequently proves this wrong. |
Re: A visual representation of FGators dollars (serious theory post)
This was a great post.
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Re: A visual representation of FGators dollars (serious theory post)
yves also has made more money in the past 2 months than anyone who has posted in this thread, including donkament winners [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img] Food for thought, perhaps asians are the superior race ???
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Re: A visual representation of FGators dollars (serious theory post)
since when do needfood and gregosu mix it up? it's absurdly easy to put these guys on a hand.
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Re: A visual representation of FGators dollars (serious theory post)
i lol'd so hard at lagtard fish's face.
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Re: A visual representation of FGators dollars (serious theory post)
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since when do needfood and gregosu mix it up? it's absurdly easy to put these guys on a hand. [/ QUOTE ] $20 to anyone that guesses both hands. POKERSTARS GAME #10781356762: HOLD'EM NO LIMIT ($1/$2) - 2007/07/05 - 13:11:34 (ET) Table 'Arrakis III' 6-max Seat #3 is the button Seat 2: ==PAV== ($197 in chips) Seat 3: ZeKGB ($470.75 in chips) Seat 4: needfood ($477.50 in chips) Seat 5: cdeez8 ($303.15 in chips) Seat 6: FreakMic ($85.40 in chips) needfood: posts small blind $1 cdeez8: posts big blind $2 *** HOLE CARDS *** Dealt to ZeKGB [4h 3c] FreakMic: folds ==PAV==: raises $6 to $8 ZeKGB: folds needfood: raises $20 to $28 cdeez8: folds ==PAV==: raises $40 to $68 needfood: calls $40 *** FLOP *** [6d 7s 3h] needfood: bets $22 ==PAV==: raises $107 to $129 and is all-in needfood: calls $107 *** TURN *** [6d 7s 3h] [2d] *** RIVER *** [6d 7s 3h 2d] [Js] |
Re: A visual representation of FGators dollars (serious theory post)
JJ for needfood and 65s for PAV
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Re: A visual representation of FGators dollars (serious theory post)
AA and AA is about all those 2 would ever play
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Re: A visual representation of FGators dollars (serious theory post)
Scratch that, don't want to derail Clayton's masterpiece.
Total pot $396 | Rake $2 Board [6d 7s 3h 2d Js] Seat 2: ==PAV== mucked [8d Ad] Seat 3: ZeKGB (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet) Seat 4: needfood (small blind) showed [7d 7c] and won ($394) with three of a kind, Sevens Seat 5: cdeez8 (big blind) folded before Flop Seat 6: FreakMic folded before Flop (didn't bet) Pretty sure my money was safe anyway. Edited to say: I wish I could find it but there was some awesome trash talking after the hand as well... |
Re: A visual representation of FGators dollars (serious theory post)
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since when do needfood and gregosu mix it up? it's absurdly easy to put these guys on a hand. [/ QUOTE ] needfood 4bet shoved 22 at me from the SB a few days ago, then spent the next hour taking me on really hard with marginal hands. He's only done that on that one day and he kinda was bad at it, it was really wierd, but I think he must occassionally try to mix it up. |
Re: A visual representation of FGators dollars (serious theory post)
yves, while very nutso in some threads, kills.
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Re: A visual representation of FGators dollars (serious theory post)
the only ones i have seen of him recently are ones where he gets himself banned so this is prob sample bias lol [img]/images/graemlins/crazy.gif[/img]
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Re: A visual representation of FGators dollars (serious theory post)
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yves, while very nutso in some threads, kills. [/ QUOTE ] [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] for that crazy bastard I know he still post out here occasionally, but not the same as when he was real active on the boards. and [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] Clayton....to bad Fgators will think you are just insulting him and ignore some golden advice that you spit out |
Re: A visual representation of FGators dollars (serious theory post)
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yves also has made more money in the past 2 months than anyone who has posted in this thread, including donkament winners [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img] Food for thought, perhaps asians are the superior race ??? [/ QUOTE ] Jerry Yang double proves this wrong |
Re: A visual representation of FGators dollars (serious theory post)
Great post, Clayton.
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Re: A visual representation of FGators dollars (serious theory post)
this was actually a decent post. nh
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Re: A visual representation of FGators dollars (serious theory post)
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Great post, Clayton. [/ QUOTE ] |
Re: A visual representation of FGators dollars (serious theory post)
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Food for thought, perhaps asians are the superior race ??? [/ QUOTE ] [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img] |
Re: A visual representation of FGators dollars (serious theory post)
Clayton, this is [censored] awesome.
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