First B&M Visit -- Advice?
 

Next weekend (Oct 20-21) I'm going to Turning Stone w/ a few friends for my first B&M visit. I've played online for 4-5 years, and play home games, but i really dont know what to expect.

TS didnt have the stakes on their website, so I dont know what kind of NL games they spread. I'm looking for something from 200nl to 500nl, but does anyone know what kinds they spread

From what I hear, the play is real weak, is just standard TAG the way to go? Also, in 1-2nl for example, is the standard opening raise like $15 insetad of $8?

Finally, whats the policy about annoucning raises and stuff, and tipping hte dealers. And for anyone who's been to TS before, whats the rake like?

thanks a lot,

1gotth3nuts

Re: First B&M Visit -- Advice?
 

I never understood the idea of "standard raise," Even if people are raising 10x bb, I still raise 3 or 4. Do whatever. If you have been playing poker for a while and are good at it, you should be able to adjust.

Tipping the dealer is standard at $1 a pot. You may see people at 1/2 tipping like half the pot. Don't worry about it to fit in. Some gambler may look down their nose at you, but whatever. If you are at a table with such hard heads, you probably want to go to a different table, because these guys will fold if you are in the pot.

I always announce the number of my raise, it is pretty funny when I announce the amount when I am playing limit. If you choose to do this quietly, then you should stack your bet behind the line and put ALL of it across in one shove, otherwise it is a string bet. If someone bets $20 in front of you and you throw out a $100 chip silently, then you have called. You must say raise for it to bind.

But I want to touch on this:

Poker is a social game. You will be surrounded by people bludgeoning each other and having a jolly conversation at the same time. There (should be) hot waitresses walking around, etc.

Please leave your Ipod at home. I hate the internet kids who sit and stare at us like we are a bunch of morons with their "chat box" off. This behavior is bad for the game, and worse for you, because you want action, and no one will give action to a mole. And while I don't soft-play anyone, I am more willing to let a bet go from someone who is talkative and gambling it up than someone like this. I want this person away from the game as soon as possible, and every one else does as well, which means that every one will be playing the mole harder.

Re: First B&M Visit -- Advice?
 

^^^Biggest nit in the world.

Re: First B&M Visit -- Advice?
 

haha, thanks for your post. im probably going to bring my ipod with the intent of only using it if the table is boring as hell

Re: First B&M Visit -- Advice?
 

I like bringing a music player with me. If I play a hand badly / take a bad beat / start tilting, it's good to throw on some headphones and listen to some upbeat / pump me up music. Good way to get away from poker for a minute and refocus while putting yourself in a better mood.

Re: First B&M Visit -- Advice?
 

Read this thread, this will help:

Newbie B&M guide

You'll be fine, just leave the TV stuff at home, you don't need sunglasses and all that. Just remember that white = $1, red is $5, green is $25 (usually). Remember your dealer and cocktail waitresses.

Protect your hand, use a card protector. Do not give the dealer your cards until the pot is coming at you, and do not fold them until another player shows you a better hand.

IPODs are fine, but if you're new to B&M skip it until you'll comfortable with the game.

Re: First B&M Visit -- Advice?
 

I was nervous as hell my first time and played like a super nit, until I started seeing the hands people were showing down. You know more than you think. Don't be afraid to ask questions too, given it'll actually help your image... TAG will work provided you limp a couple of times so you don't look like a total tighty - you'll have tons of opportunities to limp a blind level with 6-7 other players.

Raise the standard table amount (try to watch a 1/2 table while you're waiting for a seat to see what people are raising - $15 is what I see as getting at least 1 call). Don't raise 3-4 chips thinking you're doing yourself a favor ending up holding KK against 7 other limpers...

And don't play over your comfort level. I.e., if you can't stand to lose your buyin, don't sit down... or buy in short and do some pushbotting...

And have fun!

Re: First B&M Visit -- Advice?
 

Ya, Ive got some advice for you.

1. pay attention. Dont always ask if it is your turn.
2. Dont count out your chips in 10 dollar stacks
3. Tip the dealer, and dont pretend like you just " forgot"
4. Dont ask who raised
5. Dont wear your sunglasses
6. Dont stare down anyone when your going to fold anyway
7. When you get caught bluffing, just turn over your cards at showdown.. please dont make the whole table wait

There are 100 more.. but this will get you started. I dont want to overload you on ur first trip.

TJL

Re: First B&M Visit -- Advice?
 

I'll bet you are shocked that I am not offended.

[ QUOTE ]
^^^Biggest nit in the world.

[/ QUOTE ]

I am just telling OP how to not look like a jackass. If that is nitty, then yeah, okay. Not that there is something inherently wrong with IPods, I have worn them myself.

Forget it, if I have to explain, then you are probably one of them anyways.

Re: First B&M Visit -- Advice?
 

[ QUOTE ]
I never understood the idea of "standard raise," Even if people are raising 10x bb, I still raise 3 or 4.

[/ QUOTE ]

I have no idea what you can offer when you start out suggesting he raise an amount that will only get called or raised often.

It's like saying I only play tight no matter what the table is like...

Re: First B&M Visit -- Advice?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I never understood the idea of "standard raise," Even if people are raising 10x bb, I still raise 3 or 4.

[/ QUOTE ]

I have no idea what you can offer when you start out suggesting he raise an amount that will only get called or raised often.

It's like saying I only play tight no matter what the table is like...

[/ QUOTE ]

For a more proper answer, please see the Tunica Professional Thread.

Re: First B&M Visit -- Advice?
 

I have no idea what thread you are refering to, so please link it or explain yourself. In fact you should explain yourself since you said it anyways.

Re: First B&M Visit -- Advice?
 

You've got to work for the Tunica Professional thread. It's too priceless to just give away via a link.

Re: First B&M Visit -- Advice?
 

Well the biggest differences that you'll notice right away are the absence of cheating syndicates and collusion goups,there will not be hackers who know your hole cards, there annot be 16-year-old donks calling down every hand on their mom's credit card and you wont see sleep-deprived druggies playing 41 tables at a time and then boasting that they're successful. Other than those things, it's the same game. You may also notice that there are not quite as many instant billionaires as all the online stars would have you believe. Also, when you push your stack over the line on a bluff, the players will notice the twitching and sweating. If you want some online experts at your table, just look for the guys with the bad sunglasses.

Re: First B&M Visit -- Advice?
 

[ QUOTE ]
You've got to work for the Tunica Professional thread. It's too priceless to just give away via a link.

[/ QUOTE ]

I found it, but outside having a nice laugh I don't see what he is refering to that backs up his 3x answer unless he is just being sarcastic.

Re: First B&M Visit -- Advice?
 

And finally, to OP: When you win a big pot stand up, raise your arms high and yell at the top of your lungs...

"Ship It"

Re: First B&M Visit -- Advice?
 

Maybe even do the "Bulldozer" dance?

Re: First B&M Visit -- Advice?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Not that there is something inherently wrong with IPods, I have worn them myself

[/ QUOTE ]

in other news, people say 1$ is standard but that is because they are lying or don't notice the truth. only nits tip a buck when they felt someone. its fine.. i dun care and if you goto foxwoods i wouldn't tip at all.. but the truth is people generally tip more than a dollar.

the players will be terrible for the most part but a couple good ones maybe. i say def leave the sunglasses, but you can wear them because they are funny and maybe you have light eyes and the guy next to you will watch your eyes dilate when you flop a set but probably you will look like a geek and not get as much action as you would looking like a fellow degen.

you're gonna have a lot of fun

the good news is if you're playing bigger than you usually do (and according to your loc you will be) your big value bets and value c/rs will likely come across as bluffs to a lot of people. that was my experience at least the stronger my hand was the more they looked me up because the money meant so much to me and i apparently was wearing my misinterpreted nervousness on my sleeve.

Re: First B&M Visit -- Advice?
 

[ QUOTE ]
in other news, people say 1$ is standard but that is because they are lying or don't notice the truth. only nits tip a buck when they felt someone.

[/ QUOTE ]

Where do you deal?

Re: First B&M Visit -- Advice?
 

[ QUOTE ]
And finally, to OP: When you win a big pot stand up, raise your arms high and yell at the top of your lungs...

"Ship It"

[/ QUOTE ]

lol! this is very important not to overlook

Re: First B&M Visit -- Advice?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Well the biggest differences that you'll notice right away are the absence of cheating syndicates and collusion goups,there will not be hackers who know your hole cards, there annot be 16-year-old donks calling down every hand on their mom's credit card and you wont see sleep-deprived druggies playing 41 tables at a time and then boasting that they're successful. Other than those things, it's the same game. You may also notice that there are not quite as many instant billionaires as all the online stars would have you believe. Also, when you push your stack over the line on a bluff, the players will notice the twitching and sweating. If you want some online experts at your table, just look for the guys with the bad sunglasses.

[/ QUOTE ]

Not to mention that live you will find a lot of players who are such loose calling stations that they couldn't win online. Play suited connectors. Play little PP. Don't bluff much; someone is calling. Push with the nut flush; a smaller flush or even TPTK is calling, In general 1/2 is NL 5 online. Before you make a continuation bet, realize that some players at your table may call a 2/3 or 3/4 pot bet with overs. And always remember: several of the players at the table will gladly lose their buyin on a draw. They are gambling, not slaving at a rakeback factory. You really need to learn the players at your table specifically and quickly; PT/PAHUD won't do it for you.

Sincerely,

A drug crazed multitabler collusion bot syndicate member who enjoys live play from time to time.

Re: First B&M Visit -- Advice?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Also, in 1-2nl for example, is the standard opening raise like $15 insetad of $8?

[/ QUOTE ]
Depends on the room and the table. You might want to watch a little before you sit so you get a feel for "normal" pre-flop raises.

As for tipping, I tip $1 for smaller pots, and $2 or $3 if the pot gets bigger. Dealers don't get as many hands in NL vs Limit... Of course if you just win the blinds no tip is necessary.

The biggest difference live vs on-line for me was keeping a running count of the pot to be able to figure pot odds, implied odds, and looking at other players stacks to see what they've got (that will soon be yours).

Have fun!!!

Re: First B&M Visit -- Advice?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Have fun!!!

[/ QUOTE ]

This really is the bottom line for your first trip. You may win, you may lose...we've all done enough of each.

It's a new experience, and outside of winning a live MTT, your first session is probably the most fun you'll have in a casino.

Re: First B&M Visit -- Advice?
 

thanks a lot guys! really looking forward to it

Re: First B&M Visit -- Advice?
 

I just got back from 3 nights at TS. My first 70,000 poker hands were online. I much prefer live.

In case you haven't heard, it's a dry casino. If you like to drink bring it yourself and drink in your room. You can request a fridge at minimal or no charge if you are staying there. Also, there's not a single place to eat and watch TV at the same time outside of your room. If you want to watch sports, it kinda sucks.

The play - I played some 4/8 limit and 1/2 NL. Play in both levels was poor, but the 1/2 NL attracts the fishiest right now. Regulars weren't that good overall. Don't trust your first impression, people who look like they know what they're doing, and talk a good game can really suck. After a few rotations you'll get a good feel for it.

Tip what you want, but my general rule is if the dealer can push me the pot with one hand tip 1. If it takes two, 2-3.

The first time you make a big bet on the turn or river, even if you have the nuts your hand will shake. Your opponent probably won't notice that this level.

A B&M Rookie\'s Advice
 

I've been playing in a B&M about three months so as a neebie I may be able to give you info B&M neebies need that the veterans have forgot.

1. Go to the brush to get your name on the list for the game of your choice. When you get to a table, place your cash on the table and the dealer will call for a chip runner.

2. My card room has a forward moving button rule and when you first sit down they deal you in EVEN though you have not posted any blinds. Take 5 minutes to learn the cardroom rules.

3. Be aware there are rules that can get you DQ'd from a pot even though you have the best hand. Such as don't flip your cards up when there 3 or more players in a hand, don't give your winning cards to the dealer until he pushes you the chips, etc... When in doubt ask the dealer about a possible rule infraction.

4. On breaks, the dealer and the eye-in-the-sky will watch your chips for you. On a dinner break, check with the dealer how much time you have before they come and take your seat away from you.

5. For 1/2 NLHE, there are several adjustments to be made. *Depending on the skill level of your table, your raises should be 4x(high skill) to 8x(low skill). When dealt AA/KK in the BB, I will raise 10x-12x and often get callers.
*Players with top pair tend NOT to bet big enough to chase out people chasing draws.
*Beware the betting line. Count your chips FIRST then slide them accross the line in neat stacks. Grabbing a handfull of chips and crossing the line may result in the dealer forcing you to LEAVE all your chips in the middle.
*If raising, either move your chips to the middle IN ONE MOTION or say the magic word 'raise'. Saying 'raise' allows you two motions. One to move your call in the middle and the second motion to move your raise to the middle. Otherwise they will call a string bet on you.
*Look to your left for players getting ready to muck their hands. That A9o which would normally go into the muck can be a rasing hand if the lp players are getting ready to fold. On that note, it is often a good idea not to look at your cards until its your action unless you know how not to give off tells.
*Bluffs and semibluffs lose a lot of their power in these games. It is usually better to smooth call a player X unless you know they are good enough to make a laydown. Playing ABC boring poker is usually best with a few FPS raises to keep others from pegging you as a rock...
*ALWAYS chop when heads-up (sb v bb) even if you have AA/KK. The etiquette is you always chop or you never chop. If a player refuses to chop, they are probably a slot player who decided to play some poker to pass the time. Chopping makes the game go faster and besides only the house wins in HU play. If you don't chop, other players willl get irritated at you for slowing the game down.
*You will find a lot of silly players that will see a river on a QQxxx boards not believing you have a queen. You will see players chasing draws on paired-boards and bad 2-flush boards.
*When you find a player that is 'kicker dumb', do NOT miss a value bet AK(AxTxx)A5. Punish them! When they draw out, shut your mouth...
*Tips are typically $1 per pot. For me, on nothing pots I don't tip but if I double up I will tip $5.
*You will be aamzed at the number of people who will chase INSD. Loose players look for a reason to call. Make them pay and be ready to fold to their monster bets when they hit.
*Sterotype people when you have not had much time to observe them. I find Asians to be VERY tight or VERY loose. Blacks can be good players but many can be calling stations that don't want to be 'pushed around' at the table. A person that buys in at the absolute minimum usually is a bad player. A player that wears sunglasses is usually not that good. Old men at the table can be uber-rocks to call stations to tough players. Just watch them before getting too involved with them. With the uber rock old men, I will fold KK to their pre-flop re-raises. As with all stereotypes there are lots of exceptions but without additional information I find it +EV to do this.
*Other players will play AA/KK in very strange ways. A mini-re-raise should set off the alarm bells. In this situation it is no set/no bet for me. I've seen players with AA on the button let 4 players limp in and just call the blinds. It is not until the flop or turn that they make their move. So don't get stacked with your QQ when these guys smooth call your raise.

6. If you don't like your table you can ask the brush for a table move. Don't move to another table without getting permission first.

7. If the card room has player's cards, then get one. it will keep track of your comps. In my card room, you can ask the floormen to give you a comp meal if you are a regular.

8. When someone spikes a 3 outer on you at the river, SHUT YOUR MOUTH or say 'nice hand'. Do not make them feel bad. They will either leave or start playing better. Both are bad for you.

9. Seat slection is important. When you have a choice, keeping big stacks to your right is best. My favorite seats are 456 and 19. I like these seats because it is easier to see the cards. Seat 1 is on the dealers LEFT and the seats go clockwise from there. Sitting on seats 1 and 9 do have the disadvantage of not being able see the player blocked by the dealer.

10. In a 1/2 game if you don't have change and put a $5 chip accross the the line it is ASSUMED to be a call unless you say 'raise' or 'five straight'. The dealer will make change for you. I like to have about 20+ dollar chips because dealers may screw-up and forget to give you change.

11. Turn you cell phone off. If you can't, realize that the dealer can kill your hand if you take a call in the middle of the hand. Again this depends on the card room rules.

Re: First B&M Visit -- Advice?
 

This page shows the limits they have there and the rake.

-Tom

Re: First B&M Visit -- Advice?
 

[ QUOTE ]
in other news, people say 1$ is standard but that is because they are lying or don't notice the truth. only nits tip a buck when they felt someone.

[/ QUOTE ]

Wanted to point out difference in attitudes with this anecdote:

When I was playing 3/6, I was always concerned if I was tipping enough. I made a rule for myself 20-100 = $1, 100+= $2. I felt like I was being a cheap skate because others were tipping $3 and $4 on any pot.

Feeling good about my play and my hot hot heater, I took a shot at 9/18. A typical pot in this game is over 100 if the table is pretty good. I was doing good that day and tipping one dollar per pot. I scooped a relatively small pot and not thinking about it, flicked a red ($3) across the line, forgetting to dig through the pile of chips to grab a blue ($1). It was a total accident, to be sure. For a beat, the world stopped. Everyone at the table paused and stared at my generous tip. The dealer paused, not accepting the chip at first, looking as if to say: "Are you sure?"

I stiffened, looking at my "huge" mistake, but I couldn't possibly tease this dealer, so I waved my hand and let him have it.

Then he asked: "Are you sure?" He took the chip and thanked me "very much."

I find it funny, that as you move up in stakes, the pots get bigger and bigger, but the tip stays the same. In fact, the small stakers are more hard-up about "tipping good" than the high stakers.

Sit at a 500 NL game and tip 5 yellows ($5), every one will fall back in their seat and practically pass out.

The moral of the story is that you can always tell how high a person plays by the amount that they suggest for tipping.

Re: First B&M Visit -- Advice?
 

Did you really just tell a story where you tipped $2 too much and claimed the table even noticed?

Re: First B&M Visit -- Advice?
 

Somebody hates me. *chuckle*

Yes, people notice this stuff. Basically, the person that over-tips the dealer is the first to slam the cards into her face. It is a good indicator of a tilty player.

Oh, btw, TT does not like strat-talk on this forum.

Re: First B&M Visit -- Advice?
 

DaveT,

I don't know where you play, but that was about the most bizarre tipping story and explanation of tipping norms I've ever heard... and I deal poker. $5 tokes make the table pass out at NL500? The table is speechless because you toked $3? People who tip larger tend to be more obnoxious and tilty?

No way, 2/5 tables generally tip well and there's nothing unusual about a $3 tip at any limit. People who are especially good tippers usually are friendlier and often newer to B&M (or they're other dealers), in fact most of the stiffs and fleas complain and bitch the most if anything.

Re: First B&M Visit -- Advice?
 

I'd wager most of the good tippers have had to rely on tips before in their life and might see some of the abuse dealers have to take, most of it not deserved.

I don't hate you DaveT, you say some incredibly dumb stuff I can't just move past. NOBODY but the dealer cared how much you tipped. I've tipped $30+ in some pots and nobody batted an eye. The idea you try to equate skill to cheapness is laughable.

Re: First B&M Visit -- Advice?
 

A buck or two a pot. And I don't think anyone really notices. I don't care what others tip. I'm sure the dealers do.

But I tip huge when a dealer hits my almost no-outer for a huge pot.
Its my way of appeasing the Poker Gods when I suck out after putting my money in while waaaay behind. Trust me, its painless, fun, and draws attention to what a moron I am.

Re: First B&M Visit -- Advice?
 

BTW we should go back to subjct to avoid derailing this into tipping thread, just pointing out to DaveT that what he said is pretty out there