My Flawed Thinking About Double Barreling
 

So basically I feel like I double barrel way too much, and it's costing me a lot of money. The following hand is a good illustration of spots where I double barrel often (probably incorrectly), and my thoughts follow.

Full Tilt Poker, $2/$4 NL Hold'em Cash Game, 6 Players
LegoPoker Hand History Converter

BB: $140
UTG: $1,022.80
MP: $534.10
Hero (CO): $400
BTN: $364.90
SB: $652.30

Pre-Flop: K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] dealt to Hero (CO)
UTG folds, MP calls $4, <font color="red">Hero raises to $18</font>, 3 folds, MP calls $14

Flop: ($42) 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 Players)
MP checks, <font color="red">Hero bets $33</font>, MP calls $33

Turn: ($108) A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 Players)
MP checks, <font color="red">Hero bets $80</font>

Villain here is like a 50/15 donk. Preflop, his range is obviously very wide. The flop is standard obv, but then the A hits the turn, a standard card to double barrel. However, there are many draws on board. I think, and I don't think that this is correct, but I think that double barrelling this turn is kind of merging your range. Villain folds out a lot of one pair hands like 2x, 4x, 8x, 33, 55-77, but if he calls, we are also getting value from a ton of draws that only have one card to hit.

Is my reasoning spot on, or am I just an optimistic fabricating spewbox?!!

Re: My Flawed Thinking About Double Barreling
 

i like the double barrel. good spot to triple barrel if neutral river, then flip over your bluff and enjoy getting the rest of his stack in the next 25 hands or so.

obv -&gt; tilt if he flips over A2 but i still think it's a good double barrel. as for why i think triple barrel as i think often he'll have a donk 2, 4 or 8 and so even though your ahead of a busted non-pair draw i think a wide range of his hand which beats you come river will fold to a triple barrel.

though sometimes i think patience is the important in situations like this, as if he's paying off regardless, you just have to hope to pick up something good v his flopped pair.

Re: My Flawed Thinking About Double Barreling
 

lol at this villain folding 4x or 8x here, ever.

Re: My Flawed Thinking About Double Barreling
 

double barreling is fine on this board but only if you're willing to go big on the river when it bricks.

Re: My Flawed Thinking About Double Barreling
 

do you think he folds to a 3 barrel if river card is above an 8?

pretty borderline, but i think to really get underneath the fishes skin it's a good line i think.

Re: My Flawed Thinking About Double Barreling
 

[ QUOTE ]
double barreling is fine on this board but only if you're willing to go big on the river when it bricks.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah my thoughts as well.

Villain will be peeling pretty light on the flop/turn but he will fold to a river bet most of the time if he doesn't have at least top pair. Sometimes he'll play AQ like this and call down, but he'll fold 89 and 55 and stuff after he calls the turn a good amount imo. Donks like to call, but they usually like calling more when there are cards to come, they aren't usually trying to make big hero calls with second pair. However top pair is obv the nuts.

Re: My Flawed Thinking About Double Barreling
 

Re: My Flawed Thinking About Double Barreling
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
double barreling is fine on this board but only if you're willing to go big on the river when it bricks.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah my thoughts as well.

Villain will be peeling pretty light on the flop/turn but he will fold to a river bet most of the time if he doesn't have at least top pair. Sometimes he'll play AQ like this and call down, but he'll fold 89 and 55 and stuff after he calls the turn a good amount imo. Donks like to call, but they usually like calling more when there are cards to come, they aren't usually trying to make big hero calls with second pair. However top pair is obv the nuts.

[/ QUOTE ]

agree

Re: My Flawed Thinking About Double Barreling
 

some good stuff in here

Re: My Flawed Thinking About Double Barreling
 

Ummm this is a very frequent bet because of game theory really.

Re: My Flawed Thinking About Double Barreling
 

The problem with bombing the river is that it shrinks your range to Ax (where x is reasonable depending upon game flow and your image) and crap filled donuts.

If you check the turn, you allow yourself all options on the river. You can now represent a mid pair that was afraid of the ace, Ax that was exercising pot control and/or deception, or something that the river may bring (whether it be diamonds for a flush, a straight card, or even a K for thin value).

Checking this turn may also set you up for future spots where you can successfully double barrel (since this 'ideal' spot you left alone) or trap him for a nice pot.

***After all that, I wouldn't think a turn bet is too far good or bad. Maybe just a bit predictable is all. And obviously if you do/did follow through, you will be following through with river bet on almost any card.

Re: My Flawed Thinking About Double Barreling
 

jloc: 50/15s dont care about your range. they just call a few bets, then are facing a huge one on the river with a pair of 4s and an ace on board, so they dump it

Re: My Flawed Thinking About Double Barreling
 

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lol at this villain folding 4x or 8x here, ever.

[/ QUOTE ]

and he c/cs flop w/ Ax a lot too

Re: My Flawed Thinking About Double Barreling
 

If villain is passive with his draws and calls too often its not flawed thinking at all, K hi &gt; real air. Not by a whole lot, but its better.

I should say, in spots where you are checking the river.

Re: My Flawed Thinking About Double Barreling
 

[ QUOTE ]
Ummm this is a very frequent bet because of game theory really.

[/ QUOTE ]

Applying game theory isn't too important vs 50/15 donks.

Re: My Flawed Thinking About Double Barreling
 

cts,

Word. Kinda forgot about the 50/15 when starting to post.

I will say though that my advice may be serviceable when dealing with a standard crap TAG.....maybe not though [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Re: My Flawed Thinking About Double Barreling
 

I've actually seen a lot more donks who are like 48/4, but then their WTSD is in the low 20s. These guys love to limp/call preflop and maybe call a flop bet, but usually they don't continue after that unless they have a fairly decent hand.