Best hand to play against AA?
 

Hi,
I heard somewhere that the best hand to play against AA all in preflop was 89 suited. Is this so and if it is, why would it be better than 9 10 suited? cant get my head around it [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Re: Best hand to play against AA?
 

the 10 is one of the cards you need for a straight with AA

Re: Best hand to play against AA?
 

56s because you beat the wheel, with a ten you can only tie the Broadway.

56s plays as well as every other hand except for a 5 flush on higher then a 6.

I have argued this many times so if someone can show me where I'm wrong, please do.

Re: Best hand to play against AA?
 

56s is correct, so long as it doesn't share a suit with AA.

98s will lose on a board of of TJQK to AA, while 56 will not lose on a board of 789T.

It will also lose on a board of 2345, while 56 will not.

A really interesting question is why 76 is behind 56 against AA - a very marginal difference, but still a difference.

Re: Best hand to play against AA?
 

AA >>>> 56s versus AA :-)

Re: Best hand to play against AA?
 

The right answer to your question is ATs. [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

Re: Best hand to play against AA?
 

The answer is 6-5 s as long as it doesn't share any of the same suits as the aces .

Re: Best hand to play against AA?
 

ah, so i was wrong from the start.
Turns out 22.87% is your best odds with either 56s or 67s or 78s

Re: Best hand to play against AA?
 

[ QUOTE ]
ah, so i was wrong from the start.
Turns out 22.87% is your best odds with either 56s or 67s or 78s

[/ QUOTE ]

Wins are the same, but ties aren't.
65s>76s>87s
That assumes your suited cards are not in the same suit
as one of the aces.

Re: Best hand to play against AA?
 

The best hand to have all-in versus AA preflop would be the remaining two aces.

Re: Best hand to play against AA?
 

[ QUOTE ]
The best hand to have all-in versus AA preflop would be the remaining two aces.

[/ QUOTE ]

ding ding

other than that the mid suited connectors already mentioned

Re: Best hand to play against AA?
 

My bad, pokerfarian beat me to it

Re: Best hand to play against AA?
 

Anything suited except for maybe Ace something suited. Suited connectors also work.

On the flip side if I have aces I'm super aggressive like all in type aggressive because I've seen aces get beat so often.

Re: Best hand to play against AA?
 

I was involved in a 4-way preflop all-in, AA vs. KK vs. QQ vs 78s. When I saw that lineup, I thought the 78s player was a dingbat. But I guess he wasn't so far off.

(The flop had an A, and I held the AA. Good times.)

Re: Best hand to play against AA?
 

[ QUOTE ]
I was involved in a 4-way preflop all-in, AA vs. KK vs. QQ vs 78s. When I saw that lineup, I thought the 78s player was a dingbat. But I guess he wasn't so far off.

(The flop had an A, and I held the AA. Good times.)

[/ QUOTE ]

It depends on the pot. If all four stacks were even 87s wouldn't have enough equity to call, he needs about 20% just to break even.

Re: Best hand to play against AA?
 

What hand can 67s or 78s beat that 56s can't? Other than the off the wall chance a five flush hits higher then a 6.

Any two pair on the broad defaults to AA, 56 can make just as many straights and beat the wheel.

Re: Best hand to play against AA?
 

Actually the best hand is v AA is AA which has 50% expectation, except in my local live game where I found the As duplicated, making AAs possible, imagine a 10 out flush draw!

The next best pair is 66, because 65432 board beats the wheel, and 5432A board busts set A's.

But the sooted connectors 87s..65s are slightly better I think, and will play better in FLHE, if not in NLHE, against pre-flop raiser in earlier position.

Re: Best hand to play against AA?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Anything suited except for maybe Ace something suited. Suited connectors also work.

On the flip side if I have aces I'm super aggressive like all in type aggressive because I've seen aces get beat so often.

[/ QUOTE ]

Did anyone else catch this gem?

Re: Best hand to play against AA?
 

A [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]-A [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] vs. A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]-6 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] FTW LDO

Re: Best hand to play against AA?
 

65s has a 23.05% chance to beat AA pre-flop, 76s and 87s are very close: 23.03% and 23.02% respectively.

BTW: The worst hand against AA that I found is A9o, where the 9 shares the same suit as one of the aces - the pre-flop chances are merely 5.91%...

Re: Best hand to play against AA?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Actually the best hand is v AA is AA which has 50% expectation, except in my local live game where I found the As duplicated, making AAs possible, imagine a 10 out flush draw!

The next best pair is 66, because 65432 board beats the wheel, and 5432A board busts set A's.

But the sooted connectors 87s..65s are slightly better I think, and will play better in FLHE, if not in NLHE, against pre-flop raiser in earlier position.

[/ QUOTE ]
Don't really think so... KK wins on a KTTT6 board where 66 doesn't. Sets can be counterfed.

Re: Best hand to play against AA?
 

[ QUOTE ]
65s has a 23.05% chance to beat AA pre-flop, 76s and 87s are very close: 23.03% and 23.02% respectively.


[/ QUOTE ]

I can think of one reason why 87s is worse than 65s: If the board comes 9TJxx giving you a straight, the xx might be QK giving the AA holder a better straight. Does that sound plausible to explain some of the 0.02% difference in chance?

Re: Best hand to play against AA?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Actually the best hand is v AA is AA which has 50% expectation, except in my local live game where I found the As duplicated, making AAs possible, imagine a 10 out flush draw!

The next best pair is 66, because 65432 board beats the wheel, and 5432A board busts set A's.

But the sooted connectors 87s..65s are slightly better I think, and will play better in FLHE, if not in NLHE, against pre-flop raiser in earlier position.

[/ QUOTE ]
Don't really think so... KK wins on a KTTT6 board where 66 doesn't. Sets can be counterfed.

[/ QUOTE ]
http://twodimes.net/h/?z=30030
pokenum -h as ac - 6d 6h
Holdem Hi: 1712304 enumerated boards
cards win %win lose %lose tie %tie EV
As Ac 1363968 79.66 343394 20.05 4942 0.29 0.798
6d 6h 343394 20.05 1363968 79.66 4942 0.29 0.202

http://twodimes.net/h/?z=1059
pokenum -h as ac - kd kh
Holdem Hi: 1712304 enumerated boards
cards win %win lose %lose tie %tie EV
As Ac 1388072 81.06 317694 18.55 6538 0.38 0.813
Kd Kh 317694 18.55 1388072 81.06 6538 0.38 0.187

Fraid so, eat humble pie. The reason is that b'way str8 can beat your set, and trips on the board is much rarer than str8-ning cards.

Re: Best hand to play against AA?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I was involved in a 4-way preflop all-in, AA vs. KK vs. QQ vs 78s. When I saw that lineup, I thought the 78s player was a dingbat. But I guess he wasn't so far off.

(The flop had an A, and I held the AA. Good times.)

[/ QUOTE ]

It depends on the pot. If all four stacks were even 87s wouldn't have enough equity to call, he needs about 20% just to break even.

[/ QUOTE ]



So if another person had entered the pot with say JJ would our guy with 87s have enough equity to call the All-in bet? I just want to make sure my understanding of PF equity is correct. He would have pot equity of 20% and the numbers (in pokerstove) work out to:


equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 40.296% 40.25% 00.04% 1775101716 1885615.20 { AA }
Hand 1: 16.742% 16.70% 00.04% 736398216 1885615.20 { KK }
Hand 2: 13.765% 13.72% 00.04% 605120220 1885615.20 { QQ }
Hand 3: 11.153% 11.11% 00.04% 489947616 1885615.20 { JJ }
Hand 4: 18.045% 18.00% 00.04% 793867068 1885615.20 { 87s }


It's close to 20% Is my thinking correct? Would he need one more person all-in to make this a correct call?

Re: Best hand to play against AA?
 

Yep, probably ...

Here's a nice one I cooked up

http://twodimes.net/h/?z=3803098
pokenum -h qd qh - ah kd - ad kh - 8s 7s
Holdem Hi: 1086008 enumerated boards
cards win %win lose %lose tie %tie EV
Qd Qh 508622 46.83 573940 52.85 3446 0.32 0.469
Kd Ah 7235 0.67 804458 74.07 274315 25.26 0.132
Ad Kh 7235 0.67 804458 74.07 274315 25.26 0.132
8s 7s 288601 26.57 793961 73.11 3446 0.32 0.267

So 3 opponent's 0.267 is a light money favourite, ignoring rake or TEV "When you're broke you're done", you could argue for a call.

Re: Best hand to play against AA?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Actually the best hand is v AA is AA which has 50% expectation, except in my local live game where I found the As duplicated, making AAs possible, imagine a 10 out flush draw!

The next best pair is 66, because 65432 board beats the wheel, and 5432A board busts set A's.

[/ QUOTE ]

Haha, anyone ever show up with 5 of a kind or did they just lose an A of some other suit and replace it with a spade?

Regarding the 66 vs. AA. In a tournament, I got it all in with AA vs. 66 (his heart was crushed; this description has a two-fold meaning: 1. he was a huge underdog and not very pleased, 2. I had the Ah and he had the 6h). Anyway, I rivered a straight flush A2345 of hearts and he had the higher straight flush 23456 of hearts.

Re: Best hand to play against AA?
 

Ill take the 56 soooooted.

Re: Best hand to play against AA?
 

but what is more profitable to play against AA, 66 or 56s?

set u either flop ir u dont and 1/8 times.

56s u get a lot of combos or onepair and twpair is only 75/25.

Re: Best hand to play against AA?
 

Isn't that going to be rather situation and opponent specific?

If you know opponent has AA, but is good enough to fold them on turn say, I think AA will be best, as excluding 'miracle' flushes you'll be on a free-roll against someone who's given their hand away.

Re: Best hand to play against AA?
 

66 can not win with two pair, two pair is the most likely hand after high card and one pair. A straight is the next most likely hand, 56s gives you the best odds to hit a straight and beat his wheel. Plus the flush.

Re: Best hand to play against AA?
 

Actually the best hand to play against Aces is 7-2o, sure 88.2% of the time you're gonna lose, but you're forgetting that 11.8% of the time you're gonna see the other guy erupt into a tirade of cursewords and angry gestures while you collect your chips and think to yourself with a smile...
"Mmmmm it feels good to suck out!"

Re: Best hand to play against AA?
 

This is true...

Re: Best hand to play against AA?
 

[ QUOTE ]
The best hand to have all-in versus AA preflop would be the remaining two aces.

[/ QUOTE ]

agree

Re: Best hand to play against AA?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Anything suited except for maybe Ace something suited. Suited connectors also work.

On the flip side if I have aces I'm super aggressive like all in type aggressive because I've seen aces get beat so often.

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
Did anyone else catch this gem?

[/ QUOTE ]


lol thanks.. it slipped right by

Re: Best hand to play against AA?
 

so simple..

Re: Best hand to play against AA?
 

<font class="small">Code:</font><hr /><pre>
hand equity
AA 50.0000%
65s 77.5012%
76s 77.5254%
87s 77.5366%
T9s 77.7958%
98s 77.9402%
86s 78.7639%
JTs 78.8395%
54s 78.9064%
T8s 78.9861%
75s 79.0221%
64s 79.1464%
97s 79.1803%
J9s 79.4395%
T7s 80.2262%
85s 80.2606%
96s 80.4076%
66 80.4575%
88 80.4617%
77 80.4808%
QTs 80.4833%
53s 80.5517%
J8s 80.6299%
74s 80.6673%
TT 80.7491%
63s 80.7915%
99 80.8606%
QJs 80.8876%
55 80.8886%
43s 80.9590%
Q9s 81.0832%
JJ 81.1481%
65o 81.3078%
44 81.3285%
76o 81.3325%
87o 81.3445%
T6s 81.4535%
QQ 81.5471%
T9o 81.6102%
33 81.7710%
98o 81.7810%
J7s 81.8699%
95s 81.9043%
84s 81.9058%
KK 81.9461%
KTs 82.1270%
52s 82.1968%
22 82.2167%
Q8s 82.2736%
73s 82.3124%
62s 82.4367%
KJs 82.5314%
42s 82.6044%
86o 82.6474%
K9s 82.7270%
JTo 82.7382%
54o 82.8141%
T8o 82.8843%
75o 82.9260%
KQs 82.9357%
J5s 82.9495%
T5s 82.9502%
T4s 82.9509%
32s 83.0125%
64o 83.0644%
Q6s 83.0965%
J6s 83.0972%
97o 83.0978%
Q5s 83.3538%
J4s 83.3552%
T3s 83.3566%
J9o 83.3635%
K6s 83.5009%
K7s 83.5130%
Q7s 83.5137%
94s 83.5494%
93s 83.5501%
83s 83.5509%
82s 83.5516%
K5s 83.7582%
Q4s 83.7596%
J3s 83.7610%
T2s 83.7624%
K8s 83.9173%
92s 83.9559%
72s 83.9576%
K4s 84.1640%
Q3s 84.1654%
J2s 84.1668%
T7o 84.2010%
85o 84.2409%
96o 84.4007%
QTo 84.4915%
K3s 84.5697%
Q2s 84.5711%
53o 84.5719%
J8o 84.6376%
74o 84.6825%
63o 84.8221%
QJo 84.9290%
K2s 84.9755%
43o 85.0126%
Q9o 85.1168%
T6o 85.5039%
J7o 85.9543%
95o 85.9941%
84o 85.9974%
KTo 86.2448%
52o 86.3313%
Q8o 86.3909%
73o 86.4402%
62o 86.5815%
ATs 86.6637%
KJo 86.6823%
A5s 86.6931%
42o 86.7720%
K9o 86.8701%
AJs 87.0623%
A4s 87.0931%
T5o 87.0974%
J5o 87.0980%
T4o 87.1012%
KQo 87.1198%
32o 87.2139%
J6o 87.2573%
Q6o 87.2578%
AQs 87.4609%
A3s 87.4931%
Q5o 87.5354%
J4o 87.5387%
T3o 87.5431%
K6o 87.6953%
Q7o 87.7076%
K7o 87.7082%
94o 87.7507%
83o 87.7552%
93o 87.7557%
82o 87.7618%
AKs 87.8595%
A2s 87.8930%
K5o 87.9729%
Q4o 87.9761%
J3o 87.9806%
T2o 87.9867%
A8s 88.0337%
A7s 88.0344%
K8o 88.1442%
92o 88.1992%
72o 88.1996%
A6s 88.2321%
K4o 88.4136%
Q3o 88.4181%
J2o 88.4241%
A9s 88.4323%
K3o 88.8555%
Q2o 88.8616%
K2o 89.2991%
ATo 91.8648%
A5o 91.8979%
AJo 92.3005%
A4o 92.3361%
AQo 92.7362%
A3o 92.7753%
AKo 93.1719%
A2o 93.2155%
A8o 93.3461%
A7o 93.3470%
A6o 93.5618%
A9o 93.7818%
</pre><hr />

Andrzej