Rivered my wheel but this doesn\'t smell too good
 

10/20, fullring. CO limps pre, SB follows, I check my option with 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]. SB is tsarrast, a TAG regular type guy, we don't have much history that I recall. CO is a semiloose-passive regular. Eff stacks $3500.

Flop 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]. SB pots to $60, I call, CO folds.

Turn Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]. SB pots $180, I call again, because I like my implieds, and I've got plenty of bluff cards.

River A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]. He leads $475 into $540, I raise to $1275. He times down and makes it $2440.

On one hand, I can't think of many hands that he could have with two spades, given his flop pot and the fact that I have the 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]. But making thousand-dollar reads based on sixty dollar flop bets is certainly not foolproof.

On the other hand, his river 3-bet is kinda small (even leaves me some money behind). But is that because he wants to squeeze value, or because a re-bluff doesn't need to be too big here?

So, call or fold? And how do you like the rest of the hand?


And also, because I'm a little curious and a little sick in the head, how deep do we have to be before you'd like a river 4-bet bluffshove? Cause I think that would be sexy.

Re: Rivered my wheel but this doesn\'t smell too good
 

why cant he have the nuts?

Re: Rivered my wheel but this doesn\'t smell too good
 

hmmmmmmmmmmmm

Seems like his range to lead the flop could be as wide as his range to limp the SB.

High spades are a much bigger part of his range than they are of yours, but I guess that might be why he made the 3bet.

Re: Rivered my wheel but this doesn\'t smell too good
 

3s2s seem pretty likely. I don't know what hands he can bluff 3-bet this river besides missed [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]s given that he bet both the flop and the turn pretty strong? A bluff looks pretty thin when laying like 4:1 on the river, but your hand looks like a draw also. I call because of potodds and a slight chance of getting bluffed.

Not sure I like flop and turn though because your outs might not be good. It's ok if villain plays straightforward postflop and don't make good/thin valuebets, i.e. giving us bluffouts with diamonds.

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And also, because I'm a little curious and a little sick in the head, how deep do we have to be before you'd like a river 4-bet bluffshove? Cause I think that would be sexy.

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I don't like this at all. What better hands are you trying to make him fold? The spades are backdoor, he isn't gonna believe both of you got there and he is never folding the flush.

Re: Rivered my wheel but this doesn\'t smell too good
 

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why cant he have the nuts?

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sure he can, if he potted flop into two people with KsXs.

i'm mainly wondering if I win this 20% or 25% or whatever it takes to call, and if my line in the rest of the hand was most appropriate for the situation

Re: Rivered my wheel but this doesn\'t smell too good
 

u do win 20% or 25% or whatever.

Re: Rivered my wheel but this doesn\'t smell too good
 

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why cant he have the nuts?

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sure he can, if he potted flop into two people with KsXs.

i'm mainly wondering if I win this 20% or 25% or whatever it takes to call, and if my line in the rest of the hand was most appropriate for the situation

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I would pot it with a flush draw in his spot... I'd payoff in yours too, because there is an off chance he has the same hand or is retarded.

Re: Rivered my wheel but this doesn\'t smell too good
 

How can he possibly have spades here?

vs. him I would not consider folding this

Re: Rivered my wheel but this doesn\'t smell too good
 

yea call all day

spades are so unlikely given that you have 5 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

Re: Rivered my wheel but this doesn\'t smell too good
 

I'd call either way, but do you think he raises the river with 4s6s?

Re: Rivered my wheel but this doesn\'t smell too good
 

No 1 3-bets the river w/ air, esp. to the amount he did. He has 3Xss or 2Xss a lot. I like a fold.

Re: Rivered my wheel but this doesn\'t smell too good
 

easy call

Re: Rivered my wheel but this doesn\'t smell too good
 

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No 1 3-bets the river w/ air, esp. to the amount he did. He has 3Xss or 2Xss a lot. I like a fold.

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who three bets with these hands in this spot? does he ever get paid off? this is sick thin value if that's the case.

there also aren't that many combinations of 2xss or 3xss that make sense.

Re: Rivered my wheel but this doesn\'t smell too good
 

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why cant he have the nuts?

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sure he can, if he potted flop into two people with KsXs.

i'm mainly wondering if I win this 20% or 25% or whatever it takes to call, and if my line in the rest of the hand was most appropriate for the situation

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I would pot it with a flush draw in his spot...

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the spades came backdoor, i dont think you pot flops with all your backdoor flush draws

this hand is super weird, 32ss makes sense but no way he 3 bets river. i might just call because i couldn't figure out wtf he has.

Re: Rivered my wheel but this doesn\'t smell too good
 

Why wouldn't 32ss 3bet the river? We'd have to have exactly 54ss for him to be behind.

I think you have to call with pot odds given as he could show up with the same hand a high % of the time and maybe even a9 sometimes.

Re: Rivered my wheel but this doesn\'t smell too good
 

Does he pot K2ss/J3ss and stuff like that on the flop? Does he complete with those hands preflop?

Re: Rivered my wheel but this doesn\'t smell too good
 

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Why wouldn't 32ss 3bet the river? We'd have to have exactly 54ss for him to be behind.

I think you have to call with pot odds given as he could show up with the same hand a high % of the time and maybe even a9 sometimes.

[/ QUOTE ]It was limped PF, we could show up with like K3ss here.
Well not if he has exactly 23ss, but if he has only one of those 2 spades and another one.

Re: Rivered my wheel but this doesn\'t smell too good
 

The more I think about the more I think you are good in this spot often enough to make this a fistpump call!

The A and even the Q hit your flop floating range!

This line makes the most sense if Villain has a small pocket pair and called preflop, hit his set on the flop and tried to take your A9ish hand to valuetown.

I call and hope to see deuces!

Re: Rivered my wheel but this doesn\'t smell too good
 

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why cant he have the nuts?

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sure he can, if he potted flop into two people with KsXs.

i'm mainly wondering if I win this 20% or 25% or whatever it takes to call, and if my line in the rest of the hand was most appropriate for the situation

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I would pot it with a flush draw in his spot...

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the spades came backdoor, i dont think you pot flops with all your backdoor flush draws

this hand is super weird, 32ss makes sense but no way he 3 bets river. i might just call because i couldn't figure out wtf he has.

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oh, woiw, good call, lol. id pot it with a normal flush draw, not the backdoor variety, of course! anyway i said earlier to call and this doesnt change it.

Re: Rivered my wheel but this doesn\'t smell too good
 

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hmmmmmmmmmmmm

Seems like his range to lead the flop could be as wide as his range to limp the SB.

High spades are a much bigger part of his range than they are of yours, but I guess that might be why he made the 3bet.

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Agree w/ this. Imo, betting with a v wide range in a 3-way limped pot like this is, at a minimum, neutral EV compared with only betting 45, 32, sets, mid pps, 9s. Betting overcards + bdfd + bdsd (KJs, KTs) is profitable most of the time in his spot.

This doesn't mean he has spades enough to make it a fold, just that requiring his range to interact strongly with the flop doesn't make sense to me. It's not like he raised a raiser's cbet; he just donked a limped pot. The turn pot, after the flop is called, probably weights him away from air, but on the turn, spades isn't air anymore.

I throw up and call the river, because I don't like to fold.

Re: Rivered my wheel but this doesn\'t smell too good
 

I would like results from this one.

Re: Rivered my wheel but this doesn\'t smell too good
 

I call, villain wins with 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]. meh.

Re: Rivered my wheel but this doesn\'t smell too good
 

i think villain has the flush a lot here, mr miyagi

Re: Rivered my wheel but this doesn\'t smell too good
 

Do you believe tsarrast is willing to 3bet if you raise his turn bet? If so, do you agree with his line?

Re: Rivered my wheel but this doesn\'t smell too good
 

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I call, villain wins with 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]. meh.

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weird lead with 63s from tag...oh well

Re: Rivered my wheel but this doesn\'t smell too good
 

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I call, villain wins with 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]. meh.

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weird lead with 63s from tag...oh well

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not really imo.

Re: Rivered my wheel but this doesn\'t smell too good
 

i def make that call.

Re: Rivered my wheel but this doesn\'t smell too good
 

Ill probably always end up calling, dont like i though [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Re: Rivered my wheel but this doesn\'t smell too good
 

I can't believe people advocate a call here. If anything, I think there's more a question of whether to raise the river or not, than whether his raise is a call or not.. (ez fold imo..)

Sometimes you have to accept the fact that even though there's "only XX__ that he can have here that beats me", that is precisely what he has, because he never makes the play with anything else...

Re: Rivered my wheel but this doesn\'t smell too good
 

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I call, villain wins with 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]. meh.

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weird lead with 63s from tag...oh well

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not really imo.

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Leading with this hand is my default by FAR. Pot bet seems fine and good.

Re: Rivered my wheel but this doesn\'t smell too good
 

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I think there's more a question of whether to raise the river or not

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?? Seriously?

It's not like he's gonna put us on spades, the frontdoor flush missed, although he might put us on 45, he has sets and two pair in his range that will call a ton of the time. Maybe worse.

Not raising this river seems SUPER weak.

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Sometimes you have to accept the fact that even though there's "only XX__ that he can have here that beats me", that is precisely what he has, because he never makes the play with anything else...

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That's fair enough.