Doing well in multiple B&Ms; Poor in one
 

For live play, there are three local casinos and a home game I frequent regularly. I do well in the home game and 2 of the casinos. However, at the third casino I do horribly. I can't figure out if this is because of the players (i.e., typically bad, typically suck out artists), just bad runs (i.e., variance that ironically only seems to occur at this one casino), or some psychological block that kicks in whenever I play there because I typically do poorly there. I'm curious to know if anyone else has experienced something like this and if so, how they overcame it (if they did).

By the way, I posted this here instead of the psychology forum because it's 1) limited only to B&M play, and 2) might not have anything to do with psychology.

Re: Doing well in multiple B&Ms; Poor in one
 

The cards are random no matter what casino you are playing at. The only differences would be what limits you may be playing, the lineups at the tables, and your luck on the given day. Unless the players are significantly better at the one casino then you've probably just been running bad there. As you describe the players, suckout artists, it doesn't seem like they're better players.

But if it really bothers you that much and your superstitious or something just go to one of the 3 other locations you can go to instead it should be an easy decision.

As to my personal experience with this my one friend who I often go gambling with is a curse to my luck. Nearly every time I go with him he runs like a god and wins like 300 on a f-ing 2-4 table and I go 100% carddead get [censored] on by the deck and lose a rack at 4-8 or something. When I go without him i tear up the tables. Its just random luck really so I still go with him and lately its been the opposite.

So ya, don't be superstitious, go wherever the games are good don't focus on past results due to running bad.

Re: Doing well in multiple B&Ms; Poor in one
 

Thanks for the reply. To clarify, I'm not superstitious, so I don't want things I say (e.g., "psychological block") to sound like I just think this one casino has bad mojo or something. Instead, I just want to figure out if there might be some systematic reason for why I don't do well there compared to other places.

One thought I've had is that the players at all 3 of the other locations are typically better players than this place, so maybe I do better against players who actually understand it's not a good idea to go all in with J3 off against a solid player who shows strength (typically with a good to great made hand). In that case, maybe it just is variance, but it's bad enough that I want to know what's causing it.

Re: Doing well in multiple B&Ms; Poor in one
 

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I can't figure out if this is because of the players (i.e., typically bad, typically suck out artists)...

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One thought I've had is that the players at all 3 of the other locations are typically better players than this place, so maybe I do better against players who actually understand it's not a good idea to go all in with J3 off against a solid player who shows strength (typically with a good to great made hand). In that case, maybe it just is variance, but it's bad enough that I want to know what's causing it.

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Its not variance, you are not adjusting to the game conditions. How to adjust would be a good strategy post.

Re: Doing well in multiple B&Ms; Poor in one
 

How many hours of play at each location? I suspect small sample size syndrome but it could be variance or like Percula said, failure to adjust to different game conditions.

Do bad beats put you on tilt? At the risk of stating the obvious, the later game that you describe will have much higher variance.

Re: Doing well in multiple B&Ms; Poor in one
 

sample size isn't the issue here. and no, I don't go on tilt easily from bad beats. there have been so many lately at this one casino that I'm actually pleased with how well I've maintained composure all things (beats) considered.

Re: Doing well in multiple B&Ms; Poor in one
 

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sample size isn't the issue here

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Sample size is always an issue. You are spreading your play over four venues, I doubt very seriously you have a significant sample size at any one unless you are talking about multiple years of play .

Re: Doing well in multiple B&Ms; Poor in one
 

Sample size is the issue here

Re: Doing well in multiple B&Ms; Poor in one
 

At what point are these suckout artists putting the majority of their money in play when they beat you? Are they really sucking out a 3 outer after all the money is in or are they making implied odds plays on you because they know that you'll pay off?

Re: Doing well in multiple B&Ms; Poor in one
 

Is there some sort of issue with when you play there? What I mean is, do you have to drive further to get to the casino you are running bad at, which might be a problem if you are tired etc...

Conversely, is it the closest place, and you only go there when you don't feel like travelling far, in which case the bad day may be affecting your play?

Re: Doing well in multiple B&Ms; Poor in one
 

Based on your posts here you're running good at three locations.

-Michael

Re: Doing well in multiple B&Ms; Poor in one
 

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sample size isn't the issue here.

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Live, its always an issue. 30 hands an hour, and you are dividing your time between 4 venues? Do some math and let me know when you've got 100 K at that casino. I suppose you could start the wondering at 10k, but the answer would still be "most likely variance."

In the meantime, look for obvious explanations --better opponents, larger rake, etc. I would take a look at some of the threads here about winrate and the "long run"; I suspect from your post you have some incorrect assumptions.

Re: Doing well in multiple B&Ms; Poor in one
 

Maybe sample size is more of an issue than I thought, though I'm between 30 and 40K hands for the place in question.

As for the poster who asked when the money goes in, it typically is in either pre-flop or on the flop. The problem is it is mostly against bad players who are already shortstacked from previous hands, and if I have, for example, AK, and the flop comes A J 6 rainbow, and a guy to act in front of me goes all in for about 1/2 - 2/3 the size of the pot, I'm calling there every time. This type of scenario happens a lot at this place (players are always shortstacked and then min-rebuying), and more times than not, they have hands like J 9, and turn or river a 9. Over the course of a session (only 2 or 3 times), I'm down at least one buy in. This type of thing happens significantly less at the other places, which makes me think it's the players.

If there is some sort of adjustment I'm not making for this kind of play, I'd love to know about it. Because the only thing I can see to do differently would be to fold to their all in bets when I know I have the best of it. In the meantime, I'll check the other threads on winrate, etc, as suggested by the last poster to see if there is anything I'm missing.

Re: Doing well in multiple B&Ms; Poor in one
 

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Maybe sample size is more of an issue than I thought, though I'm between 30 and 40K hands for the place in question.

As for the poster who asked when the money goes in, it typically is in either pre-flop or on the flop. The problem is it is mostly against bad players who are already shortstacked from previous hands, and if I have, for example, AK, and the flop comes A J 6 rainbow, and a guy to act in front of me goes all in for about 1/2 - 2/3 the size of the pot, I'm calling there every time. This type of scenario happens a lot at this place (players are always shortstacked and then min-rebuying), and more times than not, they have hands like J 9, and turn or river a 9.

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Rigged LDO

Re: Doing well in multiple B&Ms; Poor in one
 

40k hands at 30 hands an hour =1333 hours, or 55 straight days, or 166 days of 8 hour sessions.

You should be killing that place.

Re: Doing well in multiple B&Ms; Poor in one
 

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40k hands at 30 hands an hour =1333 hours, or 55 straight days, or 166 days of 8 hour sessions.

You should be killing that place.

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Well, I'm not. That's the issue.

Re: Doing well in multiple B&Ms; Poor in one
 

1. Quality of opponents. Maybe Club X has better players.
2. Styles of opponents. Maybe you have subtle problems with the style of play at Club X.
3. Distractions in Club X (TV's, waitresses) or other things (it is a longer drive, etc) that prevent you from playing your "A game"

Re: Doing well in multiple B&Ms; Poor in one
 

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1. Quality of opponents. Maybe Club X has better players.
2. Styles of opponents. Maybe you have subtle problems with the style of play at Club X.
3. Distractions in Club X (TV's, waitresses) or other things (it is a longer drive, etc) that prevent you from playing your "A game"

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Bingo! Excellent answer. It really does come down to this. Sundays during football season are my worst days thanks to #3 above. Now that I have stopped making sure my seat faces the TV I've improved but still, distractions will get you everytime.

Re: Doing well in multiple B&Ms; Poor in one
 

Don't gamble seriously (ie try to play good poker) if there's that big a distraction.

It's hard enough playing profitable poker in a neutral environment...adding something like that is going to kill your EV.

Re: Doing well in multiple B&Ms; Poor in one
 

In "Ace on the River" Barry Greenstein suggests staying away from the place you do poorly in. It may be superstition. But if it's in your head, it's real. And it will cost you money.

Re: Doing well in multiple B&Ms; Poor in one
 

Lucere,

If you are playing at Boonville Isle of Capri and losing, it could very well be due to my presence. If so, sorry Charlie.

Re: Doing well in multiple B&Ms; Poor in one
 

I doubt it's psychological (even though it's possible.) Having said that, there's a question that has 3 answers.

A friend is flipping a coin and it comes up heads 5 times in a row. What do you bet on next, heads, tails, or doesn't matter?

People who don't know much about math answer "tails". People who have learned about probability answer "it doesn't matter". Experienced gamblers answer "heads". They know that if it doesn't matter then heads is as good as tails. They know tails are not "due". But they also know that there might be some reason heads are favored somehow.

Point being, there's no reason to keep playing at that casino, unless there's some reason you haven't mentioned.

But it's probably variance and/or not playing the best strategy against the players there, who play differently than at the other places.