Do I need to show my cards
 

This is the situation.

On the river only two players remain.
A guy makes a bet I call the bet the other guy instant mucks his cards and says you win. I am the only person left at the table with cards. Do I need to show my cards to claim the pot. I asked the floor person on the night who said I had to show my cards. The next night I asked the head floor person who said I do not need to show my cards. What is the correct rule in other places.

Mark.

Re: Do I need to show my cards
 

No, you don't.


But you should, because this ruling gets made incorrectly all the time.

Re: Do I need to show my cards
 

At Borgata, you have to show your hand.

The winning hand must be shown at showdown to claim the pot, period. (there)

Re: Do I need to show my cards
 

You should not need to, the hand is over because you are the only one left with cards.

The only real reason I can see for requiring you to do so is that it helps reduce concerns about players working together to force a 3rd player out of the pot.

Re: Do I need to show my cards
 

You don't unless somebody asks to see them. Since it is still a called hand, a player can ask to see your cards. This should end any discussion about collusion

Re: Do I need to show my cards
 

[ QUOTE ]
At Borgata, you have to show your hand.

The winning hand must be shown at showdown to claim the pot, period. (there)

[/ QUOTE ]
So what happens there when someone mucks without showing at the showdown and the other player buries his hand in the muck?

Re: Do I need to show my cards
 

The standard rule is that the last guy with a live hand gets the pot. The exact same thing if your opponent folded heads up on the turn; you take it down.

If you don't want to show in this spot and the floor is telling you that you have to, I would do it just that one time and then ask the floor to bring you a copy of the house rules showing that they indeed have this rule. I have never heard of a room where this wasn't treated as a taken down pot.

Re: Do I need to show my cards
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
At Borgata, you have to show your hand.

The winning hand must be shown at showdown to claim the pot, period. (there)

[/ QUOTE ]
So what happens there when someone mucks without showing at the showdown and the other player buries his hand in the muck?

[/ QUOTE ]

Saw that once in the 5/10, player got chewed out by half the table for wasting their time (its a timed rake game) having to have the floor come over and chew him out. He got the pot though.

Re: Do I need to show my cards
 

Thanks for the replies guys. I guess it just depends on the poker room you are playing.

Re: Do I need to show my cards
 

[ QUOTE ]
At Borgata, you have to show your hand.

The winning hand must be shown at showdown to claim the pot, period. (there)

[/ QUOTE ]

Who gets the pot if he doesn't show his hand?

Re: Do I need to show my cards
 

I called a big bet on the river of a hand at the Beau Rivage in July and the guy I was heads-up with instantly mucked his hands. The dealer pushed me the pot and I pushed her the cards face-down.

Re: Do I need to show my cards
 

It depends where you're at. The correct rule is that you shouldn't have to show, but may be forced to if someone asks (since it's a called hand at showdown). Usually no one asks.

However, at Borgata (maybe some other places, not sure), a winning hand must be shown at showdown in this situation. However, some dealers don't enforce this. I don't think they would take the pot away in this situation - however, I will always show my cards in this spot b/c I'm not taking my chances.

Jeff

Re: Do I need to show my cards
 

[ QUOTE ]
At Borgata, you have to show your hand.

The winning hand must be shown at showdown to claim the pot, period. (there)

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't think this is quite true - while the winning hand must be shown, I have never seen not doing so cost someone the pot. After all, the bettor mucked and if his hand is not retrievable, who would they give the pot to if you pushed your cards in face down? That said, I'm not taking my chances and I turn my cards over in these spots. But I've never seen someone lose a pot over this.

I think the rule is bad because it's like - why not muck your hand heads up if you have no chance of winning since you are guaranteed to see what called you and can conceal information? I would rather go w/ the standard rule.

Jeff

Re: Do I need to show my cards
 

I also seem to remeber a HSP episode where this happend and they made the player show the cards. DN said that the cards still needed to be shown.

The way I take this is I have called his hand so I have the right to see his cards. If he denys me this right then that should also deny him the right to see my cards.

Mark

Re: Do I need to show my cards
 

as soon as his hand hits the muck it is dead. you don't need to show.

Re: Do I need to show my cards
 

[ QUOTE ]
as soon as his hand hits the muck it is dead. you don't need to show.



[/ QUOTE ]

There is nothing magic about the muck, hands can be retrieved under certain circumstances.

Re: Do I need to show my cards
 

[ QUOTE ]
It depends where you're at. The correct rule is that you shouldn't have to show, but may be forced to if someone asks (since it's a called hand at showdown). Usually no one asks.

However, at Borgata (maybe some other places, not sure), a winning hand must be shown at showdown in this situation. However, some dealers don't enforce this. I don't think they would take the pot away in this situation - however, I will always show my cards in this spot b/c I'm not taking my chances.

Jeff

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah I've been fortunate that I haven't been in a game where its been an issue. The bluffers have wanted to see what called them, so they weren't conceding the pot without getting a hand shown.

Re: Do I need to show my cards
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
At Borgata, you have to show your hand.

The winning hand must be shown at showdown to claim the pot, period. (there)

[/ QUOTE ]

Who gets the pot if he doesn't show his hand?

[/ QUOTE ]

Guess the pot would be chopped among those who made it to the Showdown.

How would you rule if two remaining players Check-Check on the River and then both muck at the same time? (please don't be difficult and say 'one had to muck last').

Re: Do I need to show my cards
 

[ QUOTE ]
How would you rule if two remaining players Check-Check on the River and then both muck at the same time? (please don't be difficult and say 'one had to muck last').

[/ QUOTE ]

I guess it would be a chop with both of them playing the board.

Re: Do I need to show my cards
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
as soon as his hand hits the muck it is dead. you don't need to show.



[/ QUOTE ]

There is nothing magic about the muck, hands can be retrieved under certain circumstances.

[/ QUOTE ]
I hope those circumstances don't include when you turn your cards over to claim the pot.

I would never turn my cards over. I push my two cards to the dealer with a chip/tip on them and hold them until the dealer starts to push me the pot. This guarantees that the dealer will collect the mucked cards and bury them.

If anybody complains about the winner having to show the hand, then I will let the dealer turn my cards over. This also guarantees that I win the hand. This is one of the few times I wouldn't complain about the IWTSTH rule.

In practice nobody has ever asked to see my cards. I play at Foxwoods FWIW.

Re: Do I need to show my cards
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
as soon as his hand hits the muck it is dead. you don't need to show.



[/ QUOTE ]

There is nothing magic about the muck, hands can be retrieved under certain circumstances.

[/ QUOTE ]

If you bet, are caller and you muck, the cards are face down in the muck they are mucked.

the only situation where this would not happen is if the hand is checked down and it is a showdown. or if one player is all in ina multiway pot, any remaining palyer need to show there hand.

Re: Do I need to show my cards
 

I am in the uk and they do not seem to allow the IWTSTH rule is cash games. The floor always says that the loser does not have to show his hand even if you want to see it. By the way I have never asked to see anyone mucked cards but I have heard it been asked and refused. In MTTS the rule is all cards must be shown at showdown so you cant muck your cards.

Mark.

Re: Do I need to show my cards
 

This is the very essence of poker. This is psychological warfare. I just snapped off a guy's bluff. He decided to muck.

Why on earth should I have to show either my A high call since I had a read on him or a nice value hand which I was milking the whole way? Like I said, him not knowing whether I snapped off a bluff or had a hand will really cause him to think about bluffing again.

This is critical information. And really, if you do bluff and get caught, don't muck. Everybody knows you were bluffing so it's much better to flip over your bluff and force your opponent to show what he called with (if he even has a winning hand to boot!).

And don't get me started about mucking the bluff and then invoking the IWTSTH rule. My God, where are all the real poker players?