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-   -   KK on button (http://archives1.twoplustwo.com/showthread.php?t=519034)

bigbaldguy 10-09-2007 11:10 AM

KK on button
 
playing in $50 tourney, started with 975 players down to 172, top 152 get paid.

Normal table..... 3 to 4 times bb raises preflop, no super aggressiveness, last few hands alot of folding preflop.

Here's the hand....

Blinds 200 - 400 antes 50 full table (9)
UTG (16,000) raises to double - 800
2,3, and 4 fold
player in #5 position (13,500) calls
#6 folds
I am on button (12,500) with K [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] K [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] I reraise to 2800
blinds fold
UTG calls and so does #5
pots 9450
flop comes Q [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 10 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 4 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
UTG checks
#5 bets 2000
I think for a minute .... maybe he has AK [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] or AQ or JJ and putting out a probing bet....so i decide to go all in for my final 9800.
UTG folds
#5 calls
He turns over 4 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 4 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] for a set
his hand holds up....
so....
did i do anything wrong.... should i of raised to say 3600 -4000
or did they just make bad calls to my raise

any info would be great.
thanks

AMT 10-09-2007 11:14 AM

Re: KK on button
 
make it 3200 pf, your raise is too small with a caller in the middle and antes. flop is fine.

tomek322 10-09-2007 11:17 AM

Re: KK on button
 
Chalk it up as a cooler...

Rocco 10-09-2007 11:18 AM

Re: KK on button
 
I'd probably make a pot-sized (or close to) raise. Pot is now 2650 so around 3200-3400 would be nice. Your opponent makes a mistake by calling the raise, he doesn't even have close to sufficient odds for hitting a set.

It's really tempting to double up at this point, but you should be happy just picking up the extra 2650.

ssnyc 10-09-2007 11:24 AM

Re: KK on button
 
just a bad beat..you played it fine

bigbaldguy 10-09-2007 11:25 AM

Re: KK on button
 
thanks for the quick replys.....

AMT.... i raised a little more than the pot (pot - 2650) According to Harrington book that should be enough
do u think only another 400 be enough or do u just reraise 4 to 5 X raise all the time.
thanks again for the input.

bigbaldguy 10-09-2007 11:28 AM

Re: KK on button
 
thanks Rocco...
that was my thinking just wanted to confirm.

Acein8ter 10-09-2007 12:04 PM

Re: KK on button
 
[ QUOTE ]
make it 3200 pf, your raise is too small with a caller in the middle and antes. flop is fine.

[/ QUOTE ]

3200+, make them pay to see a flop w/44... Your an ~80% favorite...

Acein8ter 10-09-2007 12:09 PM

Re: KK on button
 
[ QUOTE ]
thanks for the quick replys.....

AMT.... i raised a little more than the pot (pot - 2650) According to Harrington book that should be enough
do u think only another 400 be enough or do u just reraise 4 to 5 X raise all the time.
thanks again for the input.

[/ QUOTE ]


In HOH, he's playing professionals that can lay down a hand when they are not getting the 'correct' odds to call. In SSMTT's, a lot of players are not calculating their pot odds, etc..

The player UTG had a 16k stack, so calling for a bit over 2k was probably OK with him, even if he missed his set.

ShizzMoney 10-09-2007 12:36 PM

Re: KK on button
 
Raising to 3500-4K OTB is optimal because not only are you making a correct pot sized bet to try and get HU (where KK plays best), villians often think that raising OTB = full of sh*t, so maybe you get the 44 or UTG to do something stupid.

I sometimes don't even mind a jam PF here with your stack and M. Makes it look like AK.

Although you gambled a bit with it, one thing you probably learned from this hand (and I have in the past as well) is that when you have an overpair multiway in NLHE, you should feel uncomfortable about your chances if you get called on the flop.

betgo 10-09-2007 01:18 PM

Re: KK on button
 
IMO the raise size is fine if they are too dumb to figure out you have a big pair looking for action. I don't think you are really giving 44 proper odds to call, knowing you have a big pair or otherwise.

Boise123 10-09-2007 01:26 PM

Re: KK on button
 
[ QUOTE ]

Although you gambled a bit with it, one thing you probably learned from this hand (and I have in the past as well) is that when you have an overpair multiway in NLHE, you should feel uncomfortable about your chances if you get called on the flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well said

go fish star 10-10-2007 07:40 PM

Re: KK on button
 
With a stack of 12,500 and assuming you were currently ITM position (152 out of 172 or better), I'd make a reraise of at least 5800 (a little less than half of your stack).

Since these guys have you covered and can knock you out of the tournament, you want them to fold. If they do call, they will make a bad investment with an Ace (30% win) or smaller pair (20% win). Even if they do hit their outers, they will have paid 5800 to win just 6700 more from you.

Because you are not low on chips before the bubble, you should be trying to win small pots with no risk rather than risking your tournament life to win a bit more.

If their stacks were not threatening, both under 6000, I'd raise to a callable 2,000 and not worry if your KK gets cracked post flop.
However if at least one of them has you covered in chips, I would just stick to the original gameplan of getting them both to fold.

2p2J 10-10-2007 07:47 PM

Re: KK on button
 
You played it well preflop. File this one in the cooler folder.


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