SB blind defence with AK
 

button is a LAGTAG
my image is LAGTAG

BB here is a weak player, so button is likely opening an especially wide range

Limit Holdem Ring game
Limit: $10/$20
5 players
Converter

Pre-flop: (5 players) yourface is SB with K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
2 folds, <font color="#cc0000">button raises</font>, <font color="#cc0000">yourface 3-bets</font>, BB folds, button calls.

Flop: T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (6SB, 2 players)
<font color="#cc0000">yourface bets</font>, <font color="#cc0000">button raises</font>, yourface calls.

Turn: 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (5BB, 2 players)
yourface checks, <font color="#cc0000">button bets</font>, yourface calls.

River: Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (7BB, 2 players)
yourface checks, <font color="#cc0000">button bets</font>,

Re: SB blind defence with AK
 

i hate to do it but i think i can find a fold here, many of his open raising, but non capping hands pf were helped on this flop.

Re: SB blind defence with AK
 

I dont think you can call the river...Theres not a lot you beat and with a wide range he hits a pair a lot here.

Re: SB blind defence with AK
 

bonus questions:
what if we had 55?
77-88?
A6?

what if villain has a smartLAG image?

Re: SB blind defence with AK
 

actually it would be helpful to know how relentless of a value better he is. A lot of ppl check down 98 here, so you can see his range is more heavily skewed towards busted spade draws.

It's also useful to know just how aggro he is cuz most ppl won't raise the flop with K8, but some lags do.

Of course these two factors cancel but I imagine the first is more important than the second.

Re: SB blind defence with AK
 

[ QUOTE ]
bonus questions:
what if we had 55?
77-88?
A6?

what if villain has a smartLAG image?

[/ QUOTE ]

I dont think theres much of a difference between our hand and A6, 55, 77, or 88. Basically, I feel like hes rarely betting a 6 here, but will often bet a 9 or T putting you on A high or a low pp. I think you can find a fold here simply because the Q hit quite a few of his semi bluffing hands, and that most lagtags will shutdown with their semi bluffs after you call the turn because it looks like youre showing down.

Re: SB blind defence with AK
 

he will vb the river with A9+
he's not semibluffing with less than an OESD or FD on the flop

Re: SB blind defence with AK
 

[ QUOTE ]
he will vb the river with A9+
he's not semibluffing with less than an OESD or FD on the flop

[/ QUOTE ]

wicked close... my guess is he gives up on some bluffs on the river so a fold is correct. If he is a smart lag than he could easily be vb'ing 98 and not necessarily making an elaborate bluff with A8 so you should def fold. Against a bad lag (or tag) who doesn't vb enough but does barrel off a lot you should prob call.

133 games 0.001 secs 133,000 games/sec

Board: Qd Th 9s 6s 2h
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 88.722% 88.72% 00.00% 118 0.00 { 66, ATs-A9s, As8s, As7s, As5s, As4s, As3s, KTs, Ks7s, Ks5s, Ks4s, Ks3s, Q8s+, JTs, J8s, Js7s, Js5s, Js4s, T9s, T6s, 96s, 87s, 8s5s, 7s5s, 5s4s, ATo-A9o, KTo, Q8o+, JTo, J8o, T9o }
Hand 1: 11.278% 11.28% 00.00% 15 0.00 { AhKd }

Re: SB blind defence with AK
 

This spot sucks because he can play perfectly on the river unless you also do this with strong hands on a draw heavy board (I'm guessing not.) On the flop it feels like you're going to get get raised here almost every time, but I'm not sure what you can do it about it. Without any more detailed reads I'm not sure what you can do here. He probably isn't playing a small pp or Ax hand this way, but everything else in his range is going to raise this flop. I really want to fold this river, but that I'd worry about meta against a guy like this.

Re: SB blind defence with AK
 

Nick. This hand was when I sweated you right?

I want to fold but there was a thread by brassmonkey a few days back where the pizzle stoved AQ in a similar spot and it had huge eq against his range.


I am at work, but I wish someone would stove AK here. I suspect I fold too much in these spots.

Re: SB blind defence with AK
 

thanks for the responses guys. I was actually button in this hand and I had A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

what do you think of my river bet? I thought that this was the perfect river card to fold out AJ AK 55 77 88 A6, and it seems like most of you would make that fold.

oink I did some stoving for it yesterday which showed that the bet is +ev vs SB's perceived range so long as he folds those hands, and that it is -ev for him to call vs my hand range so long as I am raising most pairs and all strong draws on that flop and vb A9+ on the river

also very good for image I think

Re: SB blind defence with AK
 

[ QUOTE ]

oink I did some stoving for it yesterday which showed that the bet is +ev vs SB's perceived range so long as he folds those hands, and that it is -ev for him to call vs my hand range so long as I am raising most pairs and all strong draws on that flop and vb A9+ on the river


[/ QUOTE ]

I think his frequency of folding this and his image of you has to play a huge role in your decision.

The straight up numbers say this its a good bet, but if his image of you makes him more likely to call you personally then maybe its not the greatest bet.

Re: SB blind defence with AK
 

I think you have more FE if you raise the turn vs. LAGTAG. Flop raise in this spot screams "I has a draw" and though a lot of draws got there, spades missed and he's getting 8-1.

I mean, once you get there, sure fire the river - doesn't have to work that often, plus you get paid off when you have JJ/KQ here in the future.

Re: SB blind defence with AK
 

[ QUOTE ]
I think you have more FE if you raise the turn vs. LAGTAG. Flop raise in this spot screams "I has a draw" and though a lot of draws got there, spades missed and he's getting 8-1.

I mean, once you get there, sure fire the river - doesn't have to work that often, plus you get paid off when you have JJ/KQ here in the future.

[/ QUOTE ]

if you play good aggressive poker like yourface then raising the turn looks like you picked up a huge draw a lot more than it looks like you have AT.

Re: SB blind defence with AK
 

I think vs a perceptive villain it is important to balance your range on whatever street you plan on making your move on, so that you leave him with crappy decisions with this kind of hand (weak showdownable hand). when it is very close whether he should be calling or folding, you can make note of what he is doing and adjust based on that

for instance, I am going to value bet the [censored] out of this guy from now on because I can almost guarantee he has a big fat note on my river play. now I expect him to get to showdown really really light against me, so I'll tone down the bluffs/semibluffs and step up the value bets. if I see him adjust, I'll change gears again

getting carried away a bit here but this is something I've been thinking about a lot lately especially regarding heads up play. I want to put villain in crappy spots so he is reacting to me, not vice versa, because I feel that this way I can make the strongest adjustments

vs me a perceptive villain is going to feel a lot more comfortable calling down a turn raise if the turn brings a draw, because as vma mentions my range is going to be weighted towards draws. if you often wait until the turn with good hands here, waiting until the turn with draws will work much better for you than it will for me

Re: SB blind defence with AK
 

oh yah, note how I say 'perceptive villain'
if your villain is oblivious just be as exploitive as possible. some guys will call down your flop raises all day but get scared when facing a turn raise no matter what hands you are representing, so abuse them

Re: SB blind defence with AK
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I think you have more FE if you raise the turn vs. LAGTAG. Flop raise in this spot screams "I has a draw" and though a lot of draws got there, spades missed and he's getting 8-1.

I mean, once you get there, sure fire the river - doesn't have to work that often, plus you get paid off when you have JJ/KQ here in the future.

[/ QUOTE ]

if you play good aggressive poker like yourface then raising the turn looks like you picked up a huge draw a lot more than it looks like you have AT.

[/ QUOTE ]

Are we raising this flop with AT? Really?

Anyway, lol at having much FE in this spot vs. even a semi-thinking lagtag, especially if you are aggro like yourface.

Re: SB blind defence with AK
 

"Are we raising this flop with AT? Really?"

yeah. its the only way i really know how to play a decent pair there.

*occasionally* i wait and raise the river if i'm in a bad mood and am willing to sacrifice a little ev for the satisfaction of possibly owning an overagro ahole.

what do you do with AT? k9? 76?

Re: SB blind defence with AK
 

i'd raise AT for sure. perfect action board ie. i don't feel like crap calling down a 3-bet because he can easily have KT QT JT or a draw himself.

the river is a heisenberg spot. you obviously have to 3-barrel here because it is such a perfect card to represent. so it does not surprise me that he called. you could also have A8,A7,K8,K7, K high FD as well, and you'd likely check behind something like J9 (not fully expecting him to call AJ/AK high).

Re: SB blind defence with AK
 

you guys raise gutshots on this flop?

Re: SB blind defence with AK
 

^^ sometimes i do. not a majority of the time. many people do a majority of the time. i'm just saying he could and should account for those hands in your range, and if those are in your range, you bet them on that river every time. if i ever ever see the guy bet/fold a flop i am so much more likely to raise a gutshot.

i almost guarantee the guy folds on a river Js or Qs.

Re: SB blind defence with AK
 

[ QUOTE ]
you guys raise gutshots on this flop?

[/ QUOTE ]

prob just kj/kq and they got there. sometimes stuff like A8 with bdfd. obv opponent dependent like miles explained.