Legal options for an annoying situation?
 

So i move into a fraternity house after i transfer schools (the semester has already started). I notice a sign up sheet on the door to the dining hall for tee-shirts. After asking someone about it, i am told that if you like the design of a teeshirt that is posted, sign your name on the sheet and you will get billed later on, and the shirt is delivered to the house.

Over the course of a year i sign up for about $50 worth of teeshirts. Note that i never signed a contract, or signed up for an account, or put my signiture on any piece of paper besides a single piece of paper with a blank grid on it to put your name in.

Upon returning home to my permanent address in New Jersey (i go to school in Alabama), i notice a bill from "greek resources" the company or organization that handles financing for greek life. They claim i owe them $350.

Naturally i am confused and after further research, i find out that the charges include the $50 worth of stuff i signed up for and received, about $75 worth of tshirts i either did not sign up for, or that i signed up for and never got.

The remainder of the balance is from "finance charges" which i was explained are monthly charges i received because of not paying my bill.

Now my problem with this is, and correct me if i am out of line on this one, is that i never gave them my address in newjersey to send a bill to. i never signed anything agreeing to those finance charges if i didnt pay. i would have gladly paid the the tshirts upfront with cash if thats how the system worked, but all i was told is put my name on this basically blank sheet of paper under the design of the shirt, i get the shirt in a few weeks, i get a bill later.

I call up greek resources and they explain that i owe them the money, and that if i pay them $300 or so they will take off $50 of finance charges (that still leaves me paying $300 for $50 worth of items).

They said if i dont pay they will send it to a collection agency and it hits my credit. What steps can i take to making them convince a district or small claims judge that i owe them money for items i did not sign up for, and items that i did sign up for that i never received. I just have a hard time believing that any court would make me pay for something i never got.

Rant over

Re: Legal options for an annoying situation?
 

just dont pay

Re: Legal options for an annoying situation?
 

Worst way to buy a t-shirt ever.

Re: Legal options for an annoying situation?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Worst way to buy a t-shirt ever.

[/ QUOTE ]

for real wtf just pay for the [censored] t-shirt eahrkjhgtsbna,lm

Re: Legal options for an annoying situation?
 

would this possibly effect your status in the university?

Re: Legal options for an annoying situation?
 

play a couple hours of poker and send a check

Re: Legal options for an annoying situation?
 

"Naturally i am confused and after further research, i find out that the charges include the $50 worth of stuff i signed up for and received, about $75 worth of tshirts i either did not sign up for, or that i signed up for and never got.

The remainder of the balance is from "finance charges" which i was explained are monthly charges i received because of not paying my bill."

Go to your nearest Citizens Advice Buro (or whatever the US equiv is) and find out what they can and cant charge you for.

Im sure they cant charge you for stuff you never signed up for (get FULL evidence from them inc photocopies of your signitures etc) - if they cant prove you got the stuff they cant charge you for it im sure.

As for the charges you should be able to find out more about this - but im pretty sure they cant just tack on 200% or whatever it works out to when they have taken to effort whatsoever to contact you.

Worst case scenario you got $50 of T Shirts you didnt pay for and you have to pay interest on them, but for the most part if you didnt sign up for the other crap and you didnt recieve it they wil never be able to charge you for it.

Also, im pretty sure a reasonably competant lawyer would crush them in court due to how retarded the sales process was.

Re: Legal options for an annoying situation?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Worst way to buy a t-shirt ever.

[/ QUOTE ]

agreed, this was the only way to do it though. my blood pressure goes through the roof everytime i have a conversation with these people and they basically explain to me that they are going to charge me for some i did not receive.

Re: Legal options for an annoying situation?
 

[ QUOTE ]
would this possibly effect your status in the university?

[/ QUOTE ]

as far as i know it is completely seperate from anything having to do with classes and me getting my degree.

Re: Legal options for an annoying situation?
 

[ QUOTE ]
just dont pay

[/ QUOTE ]

i havent been paying and dont plan to just out of principle. my problem is what to do when they send it to a collection agency so it doesnt hurt my credit.

Re: Legal options for an annoying situation?
 

[ QUOTE ]
"Naturally i am confused and after further research, i find out that the charges include the $50 worth of stuff i signed up for and received, about $75 worth of tshirts i either did not sign up for, or that i signed up for and never got.

The remainder of the balance is from "finance charges" which i was explained are monthly charges i received because of not paying my bill."

Go to your nearest Citizens Advice Buro (or whatever the US equiv is) and find out what they can and cant charge you for.

Im sure they cant charge you for stuff you never signed up for (get FULL evidence from them inc photocopies of your signitures etc) - if they cant prove you got the stuff they cant charge you for it im sure.

As for the charges you should be able to find out more about this - but im pretty sure they cant just tack on 200% or whatever it works out to when they have taken to effort whatsoever to contact you.

Worst case scenario you got $50 of T Shirts you didnt pay for and you have to pay interest on them, but for the most part if you didnt sign up for the other crap and you didnt recieve it they wil never be able to charge you for it.

Also, im pretty sure a reasonably competant lawyer would crush them in court due to how retarded the sales process was.

[/ QUOTE ]

exactly

as much as i want this to just go away because it is annoying, part of me wants to take this to a judge and watch his face when these people try to explain to him that i owe them money for a product they never delivered.

i will have to look into this citizen's advice buro, never heard of it or anything like it, but im sure there is something like it. i also heard that if it goes to the collection agency i can write them agency or a local court representative and have it put into court, im just not sure on the details.

Re: Legal options for an annoying situation?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Worst way to buy a t-shirt ever.

[/ QUOTE ]

? This is fairly standard when making large orders of t-shirts in a group, although apparently it tends to work better when the people handling the orders aren't douchebags.

Re: Legal options for an annoying situation?
 

don't wait till it goes to collections or gets on your credit. if they won't release the charges you need to get either the courts, the Better Business Bureau, or perhaps the media involved.

Re: Legal options for an annoying situation?
 

[ QUOTE ]
don't wait till it goes to collections or gets on your credit. if they won't release the charges you need to get either the courts, the Better Business Bureau, or perhaps the media involved.

[/ QUOTE ]

this is what im trying to figure out. who do i contact? where do i go? to get this process going.

this is going to annoy the hell out of me, but id rather put the wasted time into dealing with this then just paying them off. if i pay these morons for this insanity ill never forgive myself.

Re: Legal options for an annoying situation?
 

Btw, dont ignore this.

My credit rating is probably shot for life because i ignored debts when i was younger and they went up to court level before i scrounged up the cash to pay them off.

Re: Legal options for an annoying situation?
 

i'm not a lawyer so don't take this advice too seriously

The only way you're in the wrong is if the sheet of paper you signed legally qualifies as a contract. ie it explains what is being exchanged for what price. If it is just a grid with space for names then you're probably in the clear. Also, did you get the t-shirts or not? If you didn't get the t-shirts then obviously they are breaching the so called contract anyways so you owe them nothing. You're probably good here, just call them and ask them to have a lawyer review their so called contract to see if qualifies as legal. Like I said before, i'm not a lawyer and this is not legal advice. I just recommend calling them to clarify whether or not you actually signed a contract.

Re: Legal options for an annoying situation?
 

Pretty sure you never signed anything about finance charges so you can tell them to [censored] off on that. I'd ship them a check for the $50 in tshirts you bought and call it good.

Re: Legal options for an annoying situation?
 

ask for proof of your list of orders. Start there. If it goes to collections you have a period of time where the collection agency sends you notice that that they're going to start f'ing with you in 30 days, unless you contact them and tell them why they shouldn't.

When you get them send them a letter saying what you ordered and are willing to pay for and what you aren't, and that you're 100% down to go to court over it. The collection agency will almost definitely not want to do much and accept your 50$

Re: Legal options for an annoying situation?
 

pretty sure you're [censored] cause even if you sue your credit is going to take a big hit no matter what. Call them and try to get a rational person on the phone admit what you, say you neer received the stuf fyou never ordered. Be nice and hope for the best.

Re: Legal options for an annoying situation?
 

You probably also want to go to the school authorities on this....if it's in any way on the school campus you can probably bring them in on it....they are quite likely to tell these people to go away and never come back, which costs them a lot in the long run....fight them AND kick them in the nuts.

Re: Legal options for an annoying situation?
 

[ QUOTE ]
So i move into a fraternity house after i transfer schools (the semester has already started). I notice a sign up sheet on the door to the dining hall for tee-shirts. After asking someone about it, i am told that if you like the design of a teeshirt that is posted, sign your name on the sheet and you will get billed later on, and the shirt is delivered to the house.

Over the course of a year i sign up for about $50 worth of teeshirts. Note that i never signed a contract, or signed up for an account, or put my signiture on any piece of paper besides a single piece of paper with a blank grid on it to put your name in.

Upon returning home to my permanent address in New Jersey (i go to school in Alabama), i notice a bill from "greek resources" the company or organization that handles financing for greek life. They claim i owe them $350.

Naturally i am confused and after further research, i find out that the charges include the $50 worth of stuff i signed up for and received, about $75 worth of tshirts i either did not sign up for, or that i signed up for and never got.

The remainder of the balance is from "finance charges" which i was explained are monthly charges i received because of not paying my bill.

Now my problem with this is, and correct me if i am out of line on this one, is that i never gave them my address in newjersey to send a bill to. i never signed anything agreeing to those finance charges if i didnt pay. i would have gladly paid the the tshirts upfront with cash if thats how the system worked, but all i was told is put my name on this basically blank sheet of paper under the design of the shirt, i get the shirt in a few weeks, i get a bill later.

I call up greek resources and they explain that i owe them the money, and that if i pay them $300 or so they will take off $50 of finance charges (that still leaves me paying $300 for $50 worth of items).

They said if i dont pay they will send it to a collection agency and it hits my credit. What steps can i take to making them convince a district or small claims judge that i owe them money for items i did not sign up for, and items that i did sign up for that i never received. I just have a hard time believing that any court would make me pay for something i never got.

Rant over

[/ QUOTE ]

i liked the Rant Over part the best. cliff notes please?

Re: Legal options for an annoying situation?
 

[ QUOTE ]
pretty sure you're [censored] cause even if you sue your credit is going to take a big hit no matter what. Call them and try to get a rational person on the phone admit what you, say you neer received the stuf fyou never ordered. Be nice and hope for the best.

[/ QUOTE ]

? with no proof that he owes 300 sounds pretty easy to dispute with credit reporting agencies.

Re: Legal options for an annoying situation?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Btw, dont ignore this.

My credit rating is probably shot for life because i ignored debts when i was younger and they went up to court level before i scrounged up the cash to pay them off.

[/ QUOTE ]

BTW, your credit is never shot for life. Pay your bills and keep in good credit standing. It may take 2-7+ years, but it will come around.

Re: Legal options for an annoying situation?
 

they say they will have records of my signing up for shirts...which they will. i did sign up for about $80 worth of shirts over the course of a year. however i only received $50 worth, and it will be interesting to see what signitures they produce for the shirts i know i didnt sign up for.

I think the main thing here is that these people are use to people backing down and just paying the money. after i get some more important things taken care of this week, im going to pay a visit to their offices and demand to speak to the highest supervisor on staff at the moment and let them know how serious i am, without acting like a lunatic.

Then we will see where it goes from there.

Re: Legal options for an annoying situation?
 

[ QUOTE ]
they say they will have records of my signing up for shirts...which they will. i did sign up for about $80 worth of shirts over the course of a year. however i only received $50 worth, and it will be interesting to see what signitures they produce for the shirts i know i didnt sign up for.

I think the main thing here is that these people are use to people backing down and just paying the money. after i get some more important things taken care of this week, im going to pay a visit to their offices and demand to speak to the highest supervisor on staff at the moment and let them know how serious i am, without acting like a lunatic.

Then we will see where it goes from there.

[/ QUOTE ]

Pay them what you believe you owe by check.

When it hits your credit report dispute it.

If the company can't provide sufficient enough documentation to show the debt is valid within 30 days it will be removed from your report. From your story it doesn't sound like they will be able to do that.

Re: Legal options for an annoying situation?
 

jeeze fraternities are even gayer than i thought

Re: Legal options for an annoying situation?
 

[ QUOTE ]
they say they will have records of my signing up for shirts...which they will. i did sign up for about $80 worth of shirts over the course of a year. however i only received $50 worth, and it will be interesting to see what signitures they produce for the shirts i know i didnt sign up for.

I think the main thing here is that these people are use to people backing down and just paying the money. after i get some more important things taken care of this week, im going to pay a visit to their offices and demand to speak to the highest supervisor on staff at the moment and let them know how serious i am, without acting like a lunatic.

Then we will see where it goes from there.

[/ QUOTE ]

So you admit signing up for $50 of t-shirts.. why didn't u pay for those?

Re: Legal options for an annoying situation?
 

Unless they can produce an actual contract you are clear. Best course of action would be to mail them a certified/return receipt letter with a $50 check explaining that you have paid for everything that you ordered and that if they ding your credit you will sue them. Anyone with a brain would back down, but if they do hit your credit then you can sue them and collect damages- won't be difficult if they can't produce a contract.

Re: Legal options for an annoying situation?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Unless they can produce an actual contract you are clear. Best course of action would be to mail them a certified/return receipt letter with a $50 check explaining that you have paid for everything that you ordered and that if they ding your credit you will sue them. Anyone with a brain would back down, but if they do hit your credit then you can sue them and collect damages- won't be difficult if they can't produce a contract.

[/ QUOTE ]

yea i like this idea.

and to the poster 2 above asking why i didnt pay the 50 that i owe. i never saw a bill for just $50. the only bill i saw was for way over what i actually owe. i tried to explain to them that i want to pay my debt but feel i only owe 50. Until now i didnt feel like giving them 50 bucks, only to have them say "hey thanks, now give us the other 300 now please or we will send it to a collection agency"

Re: Legal options for an annoying situation?
 

I would send the letter, but not the check. Sending them any more money might act as a "ratification" of the contract, when you might want to argue later that no contract ever existed.

Send the letter saying that you do not owe them anything and that you will sue them under the FRCA if they ding your credit.

Re: Legal options for an annoying situation?
 

[ QUOTE ]
jeeze fraternities are even gayer than i thought

[/ QUOTE ]

starting to realize this...

notice your location is in pittsburgh...i actually started my college career at the university of pittsburgh, and thats where i pledged and got initiated. greek life up there is a lot less serious and very different than it is down here. that being said...leaving pittsburgh probably added a few years onto my life, that city is disgusting

Re: Legal options for an annoying situation?
 

[ QUOTE ]
I would send the letter, but not the check. Sending them any more money might act as a "ratification" of the contract, when you might want to argue later that no contract ever existed.

Send the letter saying that you do not owe them anything and that you will sue them under the FRCA if they ding your credit.

[/ QUOTE ]

whats the FRCA?

guess: federal something consumer act

Re: Legal options for an annoying situation?
 

FCRA - Fair Credit Reporting Act

Re: Legal options for an annoying situation?
 

[ QUOTE ]


Pay them what you believe you owe by check.

When it hits your credit report dispute it.

If the company can't provide sufficient enough documentation to show the debt is valid within 30 days it will be removed from your report. From your story it doesn't sound like they will be able to do that.

[/ QUOTE ]


This is the correct answer.
You can dispute hits to your credit.
Include with your check a brief letter explaining that this is all you're paying and that you will dispute any credit hit.
80% they take it and you're done.

Edit: Threatening to sue them is probably pointless, and not-paying them $50 may really reduce the chance they leave you alone.

Re: Legal options for an annoying situation?
 

im not really familiar with american laws because i can run really fast, but i would suggest putting the address that they give you to send the money to on a box, but instead of putting the money in the box, you put yourself in the box so you get mailed to their headquarters. then when you arrive tell them they are a bunch of jerks and if they dont make this stuff go away you are going to slice them up. its also a good idea to say that you have done this before to a similar business that didnt cooperate with you and their employees are now SEVERLY sliced up.

then ask them where their outgoing mail is and put yourself inside another box with your address on it so you can go home.