Baited and switched during interview: WTF?
 

Recruiter set me up for an interview for a Director level position. I've been in middle management for several years and this job looked like an interesting step up. I have a grad degree and 12 years in this line of work, the last 5 in middle management. The technology was a slam dunk fit - i've worked with these products before and know the engineering and theory behind them. So I was pumped.

Until I arrived on site and saw the printed schedule for my interview cycle in the HR woman's office. I mentioned, "I was under the impression that I was interviewing for a Director's position." She says, "Well, after reviewing your qualifications we thought you'd be a better fit for a manager's role."

I asked why they didn't consult me about this BEFORE I took the day off for this interview. I told her that I'm not interested in a lateral move, and that I was clear with the recruiter about this. I know the recruiter well (she placed me in my current job) and I'm sure she wasn't aware of this bait& switch.

I walked out. Didn't even thank them for their time. They didn't show me professional courtesy, so why should I waste my time with them?

Good play or not?

Re: Baited and switched during interview: WTF?
 

Definitely. Not a company you ever want to do business with again, unless its THEM that comes crawling.

Re: Baited and switched during interview: WTF?
 

This is a lame move but it is also super standard. It happened to me countless times. Not something I would burn bridges over, be professional, say you're not interested and then leave.

Also, I wouldn't give the recruiter so much credit. I have yet to meet one that isn't scum who just wants their commission as fast as possible.

Re: Baited and switched during interview: WTF?
 

i would have gone into the interview and explain why i'm a better fit for a directorial position. Why not try and win them over rather than burn a bridge?

Re: Baited and switched during interview: WTF?
 

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Until I arrived on site and saw the printed schedule for my interview cycle in the HR woman's office.

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What does this mean?

Re: Baited and switched during interview: WTF?
 

Yeah as far as recruiters go, if you were in their position who would you have more loyalty to

Employee- Hunting around for a job, might only need your services once no matter how good you are, at most will use you every few years.

Employer- Might be hiring for dozens of positions in that time and the more quality people you get them, by whatever tactics, the happier they will be to listen to your input and meet your people in the future.

Re: Baited and switched during interview: WTF?
 

I'm sure as hell not working for a place that pulls this. I would likely walk out as well.

Re: Baited and switched during interview: WTF?
 

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i would have gone into the interview and explain why i'm a better fit for a directorial position. Why not try and win them over rather than burn a bridge?

[/ QUOTE ]

Because who wants to work for a place that is so unprofessional as to not make a simple phone call? [censored] HR practices = run for the hills.

Re: Baited and switched during interview: WTF?
 

It said "Kilgore Trout candidate for RA Manager."

This firm is quite a bit smaller than my current firm. Current firm: 32000 employees
Interview firm: 1200 employees

I have 11 direct reports here. I would have 3 at the new place. I called a person I know at the interview firm. She said there is currently a VP and the 3 junior staffers - neither the manager position nor the director position is filled, and it's clear that only one or the other would be required for this small group. It's apparent that they simply didn't want to compensate a director-level but wanted to attract that level of talent. Plenty of other firms in my area. These guys are off the radar.

Re: Baited and switched during interview: WTF?
 

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It said "Kilgore Trout candidate for RA Manager."

[/ QUOTE ]

You go by kilgore trout in rl?


[img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Re: Baited and switched during interview: WTF?
 

as much as they suck and hard i would try not to burn the bridge, who knows maybe one day you will interview with some other firm where someone from this once worked .

Just because they are unprof doesn't mean you should be too is all.

Re: Baited and switched during interview: WTF?
 

KT,

should've stayed through the interview, and when they start talking compensation just go, "one meeelion dollars"

http://arbyte.us/blog_archive/2005/1...on_dollars.jpg

Re: Baited and switched during interview: WTF?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Also, I wouldn't give the recruiter so much credit. I have yet to meet one that isn't scum who just wants their commission as fast as possible.

[/ QUOTE ]

Oh god, here comes tuq.

Re: Baited and switched during interview: WTF?
 

KT,

That's completely amateur hour on the company's part. The way the company is supposed to do that is to interview you, talk about how much they like you, get you really pumped about the opportunity, and THEN mention that the only issue is they were really thinking about someone more senior for the Director level position and were taking a bit of a flyer with your interview. Then they talk about how much they like you and how much they want you, but it is hard to really justify going with you compared to the experience level of the other candidates. Hey, wait a sec, perhaps you'd be willing to consider coming in to this role in a manager position with a goal of quickly moving you up to Director level once you've demonstrated your abilities for a bit?

Re: Baited and switched during interview: WTF?
 

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[ QUOTE ]
Also, I wouldn't give the recruiter so much credit. I have yet to meet one that isn't scum who just wants their commission as fast as possible.

[/ QUOTE ]

Oh god, here comes tuq.

[/ QUOTE ]

To be fair, Tuq's a breath of fresh air relative to cbloom.

Re: Baited and switched during interview: WTF?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Also, I wouldn't give the recruiter so much credit. I have yet to meet one that isn't scum who just wants their commission as fast as possible.

[/ QUOTE ]

Oh god, here comes tuq.

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Lucky guess.

"Talent" is my collateral. The network of talent that I have worked with for nine years is gold. I nurture that network gently, and generally referrals are easy to come by as a result. In my best year I made 50 placements (high-end, not receptionists, so it was an achievement). I charted it out and 37 of the 50 were referrals at some point in the past.

Sure I could go out to Monster.com, but job boards are like nightclubs - there are a lot of available candidates, but most of them suck and are looking for a reason (to be fair there's some good ones too, but there's tons of chaff with that wheat). Plus that's a rookie move, anyone with a login and the ability to form sentences can go out there.

Recruiters are the best "in" to any company with which they're working. Applying directly is not, unless you value the opinion of Susie in HR, who is scanning resumes with one hand, jelly donut in the other, counting the minutes to 5PM and rejecting resumes as fast as she can so she doesn't have to work late.

OP, sorry to hear about your story but if you had a previously positive experience with the recruiter then she may be as baffled and frustrated as you are.

Re: Baited and switched during interview: WTF?
 

Just to clarify, I excused myself from the interview before I met with the first functional rep. I told the HR twit that I wasn't interested in a lateral move at this time, and that the message the company was giving me was different from what the recruiter had told me. I said I would contact the recruiter to clarify things. I then left, called the recruiter, and headed home.

So I didn't walk out in a huff, didn't burn any bridges (HR types have little influence in my field), but neither did I waste my time schmoozing with them.

I'm fortunate that my field has far more open jobs than qualified candidates. I'm also fortunate that my area boasts the largest concentration of firms in my field in the US. I've gotten to know lots of colleagues over the years and I like to think I have a solid network.

I didn't realize this practice was so common. That doesn't mean I couldn't smell a rat at this place, though.

Re: Baited and switched during interview: WTF?
 

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Applying directly is not, unless you value the opinion of Susie in HR, who is scanning resumes with one hand, jelly donut in the other, counting the minutes to 5PM and rejecting resumes as fast as she can so she doesn't have to work late.

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Yup, and I would just like to add that Susie is often hiring for CS rep, Oracle programmer, senior accountant, marketing director, etc. etc. etc. when she has no idea what skill set is needed for each of those positions.

For the OP, walking out would be acceptable but staying at least to talk with the first interviewer and sell yourself/not burn a bridge is prob the best move.

Re: Baited and switched during interview: WTF?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Just to clarify, I excused myself from the interview before I met with the first functional rep. I told the HR twit that I wasn't interested in a lateral move at this time, and that the message the company was giving me was different from what the recruiter had told me. I said I would contact the recruiter to clarify things. I then left, called the recruiter, and headed home.

So I didn't walk out in a huff, didn't burn any bridges (HR types have little influence in my field), but neither did I waste my time schmoozing with them.

I'm fortunate that my field has far more open jobs than qualified candidates. I'm also fortunate that my area boasts the largest concentration of firms in my field in the US. I've gotten to know lots of colleagues over the years and I like to think I have a solid network.

I didn't realize this practice was so common. That doesn't mean I couldn't smell a rat at this place, though.

[/ QUOTE ]

Sounds like you handled it fine, but yeah this is so so standard. It doesn't make it okay, but I wouldn't really hold it against the company too much. You just have to roll your eyes and go on with it.

It's pretty standard practice for HR people doing hiring for a spot to just set up interviews with like 10 candidates. If they find one that they like they usually don't cancel the remaining interviews because they want to look for talent and possibly hire for other spots, so you can find yourself interviewing for a spot that's already taken. Just finding a resume of a talented person that you want to interview is a lot of work so people hiring don't want to give that up.

I went on a couple interviews where I was supposedly going in for a director interview and didn't learn otherwise until I was introduced to the guy they'd already hired to fill the spot I was interviewing for. Umm, okay. I would usually go ahead and finish the interview and just use it as a chance to find out more about the company so I'd know if I ever wanted to get a job there in the future.

BTW if you want to hear a [censored] thing to do - I know people who were hired, quit their old jobs, made relocation arrangements, and then told the position was no longer available. There's also the semi-standard practice of waiting for someone's first day on the job and then telling them that the spot they were expecting is no longer needed and they can do this other job instead. There are different levels of sin in business, at least you were told at a time when you could get out early.

ps. obviously there are good recruiters out there, tuq sounds like one, but the vast majority of them just fire applicants at openings regardless of the fit, I've seen this both from the candidate side and the hiring side.

Re: Baited and switched during interview: WTF?
 

Good play.


Balla imo.

Re: Baited and switched during interview: WTF?
 

cbloom,

You are a pretty jaded dude about all of this. I'm not saying it's unwarranted, but I am saying it's unproductive.

A lot of chop shop recruiting firms hire people for near-minimum wage and "hope" they work out. As you might suspect, the failure rate is incredibly high, probably >95%, since there are very few barriers to someone getting hired in that position, but very real barriers to them succeeding. The house takes a large chunk of their commission, and if they don't work out there is always someone else to fill that seat.

However, there is another side of the equation which keeps recruiters in check: hiring managers count on recruiters to identify QUALIFIED people. If they're repeatedly missing the mark and presenting them over/underqualified talent then the relationship will sour and they will be effectively fired. If a candidate of mine gets turned away, my standard response is "thanks, can you tell me why he/she wasn't a fit so we don't make that mistake in the future?" Wasting a client's time = wasting our time.

Re: Baited and switched during interview: WTF?
 

[ QUOTE ]

BTW if you want to hear a [censored] thing to do - I know people who were hired, quit their old jobs, made relocation arrangements, and then told the position was no longer available. There's also the semi-standard practice of waiting for someone's first day on the job and then telling them that the spot they were expecting is no longer needed and they can do this other job instead. There are different levels of sin in business, at least you were told at a time when you could get out early.

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Really?
I would think this would get expensive. All those pesky lawsuits.

Re: Baited and switched during interview: WTF?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

BTW if you want to hear a [censored] thing to do - I know people who were hired, quit their old jobs, made relocation arrangements, and then told the position was no longer available. There's also the semi-standard practice of waiting for someone's first day on the job and then telling them that the spot they were expecting is no longer needed and they can do this other job instead. There are different levels of sin in business, at least you were told at a time when you could get out early.

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Really?
I would think this would get expensive. All those pesky lawsuits.

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I'm not sure this is grounds for a lawsuit but I'd be curious to hear from someone that is familiar with employment law.

Re: Baited and switched during interview: WTF?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

BTW if you want to hear a [censored] thing to do - I know people who were hired, quit their old jobs, made relocation arrangements, and then told the position was no longer available. There's also the semi-standard practice of waiting for someone's first day on the job and then telling them that the spot they were expecting is no longer needed and they can do this other job instead. There are different levels of sin in business, at least you were told at a time when you could get out early.

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Really?
I would think this would get expensive. All those pesky lawsuits.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not sure this is grounds for a lawsuit but I'd be curious to hear from someone that is familiar with employment law.

[/ QUOTE ]
According to my B-Law 101, this is a pretty clear cut contract breach.

Re: Baited and switched during interview: WTF?
 

Do you have to have an actual contract for their to be a breach or can the contract be implied?

Re: Baited and switched during interview: WTF?
 

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Do you have to have an actual contract for their to be a breach or can the contract be implied?

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It's been way too long but, as long as there was an agreement, and I have some way to prove it, I'm suing.

Re: Baited and switched during interview: WTF?
 

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Yeah as far as recruiters go, if you were in their position who would you have more loyalty to

Employee- Hunting around for a job, might only need your services once no matter how good you are, at most will use you every few years.

Employer- Might be hiring for dozens of positions in that time and the more quality people you get them, by whatever tactics, the happier they will be to listen to your input and meet your people in the future.

[/ QUOTE ]
I've only dealt with recruiters for legal positions before, but I just met a recruiter for technical positions the other day. He said that one big problem he runs into is that the candidates he is handling think that he (the recruiter) is working for the candidate. The recruiter made it clear to me that he works for the employer and only has loyalty to the employer.

Re: Baited and switched during interview: WTF?
 

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Do you have to have an actual contract for their to be a breach or can the contract be implied?

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contracts don't have to be written. They can offer you a job, you quit an existing one and move, show up and there's no job, then you can prove damages pretty easy, and breach of contract.

Re: Baited and switched during interview: WTF?
 

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The recruiter made it clear to me that he works for the employer and only has loyalty to the employer.

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This is a stupid mentality to have. You're working for both parties to determine whether or not it's a good fit for everyone. It's true that only one of the parties pays you, but both are equally important in the process and should be treated as such.

Re: Baited and switched during interview: WTF?
 

wow thats so ridiculous. hopefully walking out will make them reconsider the move they pulled

Re: Baited and switched during interview: WTF?
 

I would have been polite but firm that I'm not interested in the manager position. But I wouldn't have stormed out in a huff.

Don't be so sure about your recruiter not knowing. But it's certainly possible either way. My recruiter was very knowledgeable about programming, and seemed like a nice guy. But when push came to shove he turned into a used car salesman to get me into a job that wasn't a good fit. Then he quit the company a few months later. Thanks bud.