Science Education in America: Why I\'m Homeschooling My Kid in Science
 

http://www.astronomybuff.com/why-im-...nce-next-year/

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Getting that C- consistently really took a toll on him, he couldn’t understand what was going on. He really knows his stuff and always scored well on tests.
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Naturally, I talked to the teacher to investigate.
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It turns out my son IS a good student, DID understand the material and WAS way ahead of the other students in his comprehension of the material.
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BUT, he couldn’t organize his science notebook.
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“I’m sorry, he can’t organize what?”, I asked.
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“His science notebook. He failed the notebook checks. They were worth 100 points each, almost 80 percent of his grade.”, the science teacher calmly explained with a huge smirk on her face.

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A good read, but sadly typical. I've said it before and I will say it again: No child of mine will ever be fed to the public "school" system. All of you people who get so bent out of shape about some school district somewhere not teaching evolution or wanting to teach ID are missing the forest for a pine needle.

Re: Science Education in America: Why I\'m Homeschooling My Kid in Scie
 

But you have a PhD in Astrophysics. How many parents would you think are remotely able to teach their kid science?

Do you think that that article represents something that cannot be fixed?

Re: Science Education in America: Why I\'m Homeschooling My Kid in Scie
 

Having been in both the public and private systems twice, I had a worse education in the private system than I ever did in the public system (this is Australia BTW). Apart from that the main difference was much nicer schoolgrounds and hotter, sluttier girls, which is important imo but irrelevant to the question of science.

BTW, where is the objective evidence that the private system is so much better? I don't see a huge differential in published studies of the US education system, and that's despite the fact that the children of those with means tend to go these schools.

Re: Science Education in America: Why I\'m Homeschooling My Kid in Scie
 

Read this for example:

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/07/19/op...mp;oref=slogin

Re: Science Education in America: Why I\'m Homeschooling My Kid in Scie
 

i'm torn. i've taught in public schools, private catholic schools, and now alternative schools. all had positives and negatives...

the science notebook thing sounds crazy, but it's coming from a scientist, who probably looks at science differently than a school system might.

in the end, it's usually parents that makes the difference. i can put the same amount of effort into 2 different kids, and the support system outside of school usually makes the difference...

Re: Science Education in America: Why I\'m Homeschooling My Kid in Scie
 

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But you have a PhD in Astrophysics. How many parents would you think are remotely able to teach their kid science?

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I know absolutely nothing about cobbling, yet I manage to procure top quality shoes. I know absolutely nothing about cattle ranching, yet I manage to procure top quality steak. I know absolutely nothing about building a car, yet I manage to procure one I like very much. I know nothing about making clothing, cell phones, televisions, yet I can get all. I don't have to mow my own lawn, change my own oil, or fix my own roof. I trust you see the pattern.

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Do you think that that article represents something that cannot be fixed?

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It can be easily fixed. End the government school monopoly.

Re: Science Education in America: Why I\'m Homeschooling My Kid in Scie
 

Blah, I actually thought this "keep a neat notebook thing because it's worth the bulk of your grade" in high school was standard. But upon reading this thread, I guess not. Damn science teachers. -_-; It sure made me hate science though. :/ But it wasn't just science teachers either I guess.

Re: Science Education in America: Why I\'m Homeschooling My Kid in Scie
 

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Do you think that that article represents something that cannot be fixed?

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It can be easily fixed. End the government school monopoly.

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Another AC rant in disguise. Fabulous. Do you care to address the substantive point made in this thread - namely, that the objective evidence does not support your assertion that the private system is markedly better.

This is like your NASA thread [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Re: Science Education in America: Why I\'m Homeschooling My Kid in Scie
 

Okay Borodog, what's your hidden agenda this time?

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It can be easily fixed. End the government school monopoly.


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Oh, nevermind.

Re: Science Education in America: Why I\'m Homeschooling My Kid in Scie
 

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No child of mine will ever be fed to the public "school" system.

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Amen to that.

Re: Science Education in America: Why I\'m Homeschooling My Kid in Science
 

I've sent my kids to both public and private schools and the private schools are much more sticklers for organization and base their grades much less on knowledge of the subject than on other issues.

Anyway, a good class should be about knowledge of the subject matter, but it should also be about more than that. Learning to be organized and to do what you need to in order to prosper are, IMO, much more important skills than knowing science. A parent shouldn't "care less about the state of their goddam notebooks."

Re: Science Education in America: Why I\'m Homeschooling My Kid in Scie
 

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I've sent my kids to both public and private schools and the private schools are much more sticklers for organization and base their grades much less on knowledge of the subject than on other issues.

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I'd say the "private" school market is a sliver of what it would be if the government were entirely out of the way. The obvious explanation for what you observe is that the private schools are generally tied towards religious groups today.

In a truly free market with less barriers to entry, other people would be able to provide the service.

Re: Science Education in America: Why I\'m Homeschooling My Kid in Scie
 

[ QUOTE ]
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Do you think that that article represents something that cannot be fixed?

[/ QUOTE ]

It can be easily fixed. End the government school monopoly.

[/ QUOTE ]
Another AC rant in disguise. Fabulous. Do you care to address the substantive point made in this thread - namely, that the objective evidence does not support your assertion that the private system is markedly better.

This is like your NASA thread [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

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Troll elsewhere.

Re: Science Education in America: Why I\'m Homeschooling My Kid in Scie
 

I don't see your point. The notebook thing is completely standard, organizing and conveying your thoughts clearly is crucial to good science. You can be against the public school system but the level of education you can recieve going to public school is very very good.

If the choices are between home schooling and public school public wins in a landslide imo. I didn't go to a private school until college so I can't comment on those.


Oh i guess you where talking about private schools. What makes you think that the same thing won't happen there?

Re: Science Education in America: Why I\'m Homeschooling My Kid in Scie
 

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I don't see your point. The notebook thing is completely standard, organizing and conveying your thoughts clearly is crucial to good science. You can be against the public school system but the level of education you can recieve going to public school is very very good.

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80% of a science class grade? its absurd

maybe 10% or something

Re: Science Education in America: Why I\'m Homeschooling My Kid in Scie
 

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Okay Borodog, what's your hidden agenda this time?

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It can be easily fixed. End the government school monopoly.


[/ QUOTE ]


Oh, nevermind.

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lol

Re: Science Education in America: Why I\'m Homeschooling My Kid in Scie
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Do you think that that article represents something that cannot be fixed?

[/ QUOTE ]

It can be easily fixed. End the government school monopoly.

[/ QUOTE ]
Another AC rant in disguise. Fabulous. Do you care to address the substantive point made in this thread - namely, that the objective evidence does not support your assertion that the private system is markedly better.

This is like your NASA thread [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

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Troll elsewhere.

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Here it is again:

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/07/19/op...mp;oref=slogin

This is a forum for evidence and rational discussion...not rants about the government.

Re: Science Education in America: Why I\'m Homeschooling My Kid in Scie
 

[ QUOTE ]
Okay Borodog, what's your hidden agenda this time?

[ QUOTE ]
It can be easily fixed. End the government school monopoly.


[/ QUOTE ]

Oh, nevermind.

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Rduke55 asked the question. I answered it. I wish you morons would get a life and lay off the trolling.

Re: Science Education in America: Why I\'m Homeschooling My Kid in Scie
 

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It can be easily fixed. End the government school monopoly.

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I didn't know the government had a school monopoly.

what about private schools and home schooling and home schools?

that disproves monopoly right there.

Re: Science Education in America: Why I\'m Homeschooling My Kid in Scie
 

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It can be easily fixed. End the government school monopoly.

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I didn't know the government had a school monopoly.

what about private schools and home schooling and home schools?

that disproves monopoly right there.

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It's unpossible to not pay for the state schools. That seems like a monopoly to me.

Re: Science Education in America: Why I\'m Homeschooling My Kid in Scie
 

lol this brings up so many bad memories of high school. i was in a typical situation and frequently had to schedule an extra hour after class with the teacher so that I could try and resurrect a notebook from crumpled papers in my bookbag to score just enough points to preserve my A for the quarter...

Re: Science Education in America: Why I\'m Homeschooling My Kid in Scie
 

[ QUOTE ]
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[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Do you think that that article represents something that cannot be fixed?

[/ QUOTE ]

It can be easily fixed. End the government school monopoly.

[/ QUOTE ]
Another AC rant in disguise. Fabulous. Do you care to address the substantive point made in this thread - namely, that the objective evidence does not support your assertion that the private system is markedly better.

This is like your NASA thread [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

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Troll elsewhere.

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Here it is again:

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/07/19/op...mp;oref=slogin

This is a forum for evidence and rational discussion...not rants about the government.

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No, it's apparently a forum for unmodded trolling. There was no "rant about the government." Rduke asked a question, I answered it briefly because I knew Rduke wasn't actually interested in the answer, you trolled with impugnity. Again. Like virtually every other time you've ever responded to a post of mine.

Re: Science Education in America: Why I\'m Homeschooling My Kid in Scie
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
It can be easily fixed. End the government school monopoly.

[/ QUOTE ]

I didn't know the government had a school monopoly.

what about private schools and home schooling and home schools?

that disproves monopoly right there.

[/ QUOTE ]

If you try to retain the money being sent to the public schools and instead tried to use it for private schools or homeschooling, what happens?

"Monopoly" doesn't necessarily mean only one provider. It means a grant of special privelege by government.

Re: Science Education in America: Why I\'m Homeschooling My Kid in Scie
 

Have you read the sticky? I'm the one actually trying to have a discussion about the issue at hand, which is the state of public vs private education as relates to math and science.

I post an article which discusses and references the most authoritative studies done on the issue...you post an anecdote about a parent who didn't like their kid's grade, and got a strange answer...which you then generalize to how awful the government is and how you'll never let your kid near a public school.

Lay off the accusations of trolling. Your posts in this forum are constantly about AC or how hopelessly awful the government is. More than one person has called you on it. And RDuke didn't even bring the topic up. If you actually read his questions, you didn't really answer either of them.

So I invite you again to discuss the issue you brought up and continue to assert without evidence. The link is above. Until you do that, I see no reason to reply to you...you can have the last word. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Re: Science Education in America: Why I\'m Homeschooling My Kid in Scie
 

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[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Do you think that that article represents something that cannot be fixed?

[/ QUOTE ]

It can be easily fixed. End the government school monopoly.

[/ QUOTE ]
Another AC rant in disguise. Fabulous. Do you care to address the substantive point made in this thread - namely, that the objective evidence does not support your assertion that the private system is markedly better.

This is like your NASA thread [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

Troll elsewhere.

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Here it is again:

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/07/19/op...mp;oref=slogin

This is a forum for evidence and rational discussion...not rants about the government.

[/ QUOTE ]

No, it's apparently a forum for unmodded trolling. There was no "rant about the government." Rduke asked a question, I answered it briefly because I knew Rduke wasn't actually interested in the answer, you trolled with impugnity. Again. Like virtually every other time you've ever responded to a post of mine.

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I believe the picture you are looking for is this:

http://img402.imageshack.us/img402/4...stclownpz3.jpg

Re: Science Education in America: Why I\'m Homeschooling My Kid in Scie
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Okay Borodog, what's your hidden agenda this time?

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It can be easily fixed. End the government school monopoly.


[/ QUOTE ]

Oh, nevermind.

[/ QUOTE ]

Rduke55 asked the question. I answered it. I wish you morons would get a life and lay off the trolling.

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According to the new Webstorodog dictionary

trolling: v, (1) not completely agreeing with Borodog, (2) questioning whether Borodog really understands the concept of dimensional analysis.

Re: Science Education in America: Why I\'m Homeschooling My Kid in Scie
 

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It's unpossible to not pay for the state schools. That seems like a monopoly to me.

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you could live in a retirement community, property taxes don't go to schools. I guess state taxes still go to universities though.

but really that's a tax question, I mean there's so many ways the gov wastes your money I don't know why you single out schools.

Re: Science Education in America: Why I\'m Homeschooling My Kid in Science
 

All that's needed is a good independent examination system. Then all the dross about homeowrk, notepads, silly teachers etc is just good preperation for the bozzo's you'll meet at work.

True story this in a scientific research company: They needed a quality system to check the data produced was produced to the highest quality standards. So they chose this package and ran an extensive (at least a man year of work) quality audit to check the quality system was a quality product. Eventually they passed it, bought it, installed it, went live, it didn't work.

chez

Re: Science Education in America: Why I\'m Homeschooling My Kid in Scie
 

[ QUOTE ]
If you try to retain the money being sent to the public schools and instead tried to use it for private schools or homeschooling, what happens?

"Monopoly" doesn't necessarily mean only one provider. It means a grant of special privelege by government.

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retain the money? lol. you try to stop the gov from thefting you and you'll wind up dead, no matter what the reason you have for doing it.

but as far as education, it seems to me the best education model is the apprentice model. what I mean by that is that if you look at elite say nobel prize winners, a way lot of them had mentors they worked with who were themselves nobel prize winners. I think I read an article by a nobel prize winner who said somtheing like that.

Re: Science Education in America: Why I\'m Homeschooling My Kid in Scie
 

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It's unpossible to not pay for the state schools. That seems like a monopoly to me.

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you could live in a retirement community, property taxes don't go to schools. I guess state taxes still go to universities though.

but really that's a tax question, I mean there's so many ways the gov wastes your money I don't know why you single out schools.

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The question was: is it a monopoly, and the answer is yes. Do you acknowledge?


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I don't know why you single out schools

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What do you mean? We're anarchists. Are you?

Re: Science Education in America: Why I\'m Homeschooling My Kid in Scie
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
If you try to retain the money being sent to the public schools and instead tried to use it for private schools or homeschooling, what happens?

"Monopoly" doesn't necessarily mean only one provider. It means a grant of special privelege by government.

[/ QUOTE ]

retain the money? lol. you try to stop the gov from thefting you and you'll wind up dead, no matter what the reason you have for doing it.

but as far as education, it seems to me the best education model is the apprentice model. what I mean by that is that if you look at elite say nobel prize winners, a way lot of them had mentors they worked with who were themselves nobel prize winners. I think I read an article by a nobel prize winner who said somtheing like that.

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So you're an education anarchist?

Re: Science Education in America: Why I\'m Homeschooling My Kid in Scie
 

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The question was: is it a monopoly, and the answer is yes. Do you acknowledge?


Quote:
I don't know why you single out schools



What do you mean? We're anarchists. Are you?

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well your argument of monopoly rests on your having to pay taxes to suport the schools. but what about people like me who don't pay taxes other than those that are impossible to not pay (sales tax, for example).

WHO'S THE ANARCHIST NOW!? (ode to joey, could be better but I don't feel like thinking hard and making it funny)

Re: Science Education in America: Why I\'m Homeschooling My Kid in Scie
 

[ QUOTE ]
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The question was: is it a monopoly, and the answer is yes. Do you acknowledge?


Quote:
I don't know why you single out schools



What do you mean? We're anarchists. Are you?

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well your argument of monopoly rests on your having to pay taxes to suport the schools. but what about people like me who don't pay taxes other than those that are impossible to not pay (sales tax, for example).

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Well, what about them? Like you said, you're paying whether you like it or not. The state is not a voluntary organization. They spend money and fork the costs over to the citizens in whichever way they want. Sales tax, income tax, inflation tax, seizing property, slave labour, the list goes on. Whenever the state spends a dollar, the cost is somehow going to be paid by the citizen (unless the state collapses ofcourse. HELLO USSR).

If you, by some miracle, live within the state territory and end up not paying for the schools, then that would be strange but not unpossible. However, this situation would still the best application for the concept of 'monopoly'. No other situations are fit better to it (and certainly no market situation).




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WHO'S THE ANARCHIST NOW!? (ode to joey, could be better but I don't feel like thinking hard and making it funny)

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I am. Are you?

Re: Science Education in America: Why I\'m Homeschooling My Kid in Scie
 

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If you, by some miracle, live within the state territory and end up not paying for the schools, then that would be strange but not unpossible. However, this situation would still the best application for the concept of 'monopoly'. No other situations are fit better to it (and certainly no market situation).

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I guess you're right, the gov is a monopoly, and p;ublic schools are part of government, so I guess they are part of a monopoly, but the diff is you don't have to participate in pub schools, but you do have to participate in government to some extent.

Re: Science Education in America: Why I\'m Homeschooling My Kid in Scie
 

So are you a voluntaryist yet?

Re: Science Education in America: Why I\'m Homeschooling My Kid in Scie
 

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So are you a voluntaryist yet?

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criminal is probably the best label; I mean I can think.

Re: Science Education in America: Why I\'m Homeschooling My Kid in Scie
 

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So are you a voluntaryist yet?

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criminal is probably the best label; I mean I can think.

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What?

If you are purposely avoiding the question please state so.

Re: Science Education in America: Why I\'m Homeschooling My Kid in Scie
 

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Here it is again:

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/07/19/op...mp;oref=slogin

This is a forum for evidence and rational discussion...not rants about the government.

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Atleast you tried.

Re: Science Education in America: Why I\'m Homeschooling My Kid in Science
 

Absolutely right. The real tragedy is this:
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All of you people who get so bent out of shape about some school district somewhere not teaching evolution or wanting to teach ID are missing the forest for a pine needle.

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Apparently there are a huge number of people just barely able to grasp the trivial concept that "ID really isn't science," but completely unable to recognize that it is the structure of the system itself that is ultimately destructive to genuine understanding and creativity.

Re: Science Education in America: Why I\'m Homeschooling My Kid in Scie
 

Also, wasn't the author of the linked article angry about his kid's grade, not the amount of science he learned? As other people said, why would you expect this to be different in a private school?

And I think Phil is bringing up good points worthy of discussion and I don't know why you are doing what you are doing. You are just brushing his points aside without any debate - some sort of reverse-trolling.