I turn top and bottom deeeeeeeep
 

Villain is GR33D, he's a tag with tricks and I was not that surprised to see him raise this turn and instantly wished I had checked it to him. My hand is usually best but very very vulnerable and when it's not I'm crushed. I am clueless on how to proceed here. Ideas?

Poker Stars, $1/$2 NL Hold'em Cash Game, 6 Players
LegoPoker Hand History Converter

SB: $198
BB: $205.55
UTG: $200
Hero (MP): $900.50
CO: $423.20
BTN: $197

Pre-Flop: A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] dealt to Hero (MP)
UTG folds, <font color="red">Hero raises to $8</font>, CO calls $8, 3 folds

Flop: ($19) 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 Players)
<font color="red">Hero bets $12</font>, CO calls $12

Turn: ($43) A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 Players)
<font color="red">Hero bets $28</font>, <font color="red">CO raises to $70</font>, Hero pukes.

Re: I turn top and bottom deeeeeeeep
 

Minraise and hope he shoves!

Re: I turn top and bottom deeeeeeeep
 

FFS... i hate this spot...

I probably just call. I don't know if he calls a raise with worse.

Re: I turn top and bottom deeeeeeeep
 

[ QUOTE ]
FFS... i hate this spot...

I probably just call. I don't know if he calls a raise with worse.

[/ QUOTE ]

The turn call isn't the issue, there's now 180 in the pot on the river and approximately half the deck is gonna be scary.

Re: I turn top and bottom deeeeeeeep
 

not sure why your scared of like any rivers. Call turn, call river, he's bluffing

Re: I turn top and bottom deeeeeeeep
 

What is his river AF? Will he vbet AT if a draw gets there on river? how likely is he to bluff river with a missed draw?

I think his range here is AT, ThXh, 45, or spades (which obviously include AsXs), being weighted heavily towards the former two. Most tags pop the flop this deep with a set.

Re: I turn top and bottom deeeeeeeep
 

[ QUOTE ]
not sure why your scared of like any rivers. Call turn, call river, he's bluffing

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so are you playing Ad2d the same way?

Re: I turn top and bottom deeeeeeeep
 

[ QUOTE ]

Turn: ($43) A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 Players)
<font color="red">Hero bets $28</font>, <font color="red">CO raises to $70</font>, Hero pukes.

[/ QUOTE ]

WTF. Why isn't it "Hero pumps fist"?

Seriously, if you are this scared of playing deep just get up. Villain's going to use this as a scare card a TON. He's bluffing a lot here.

Re: I turn top and bottom deeeeeeeep
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

Turn: ($43) A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 Players)
<font color="red">Hero bets $28</font>, <font color="red">CO raises to $70</font>, Hero pukes.

[/ QUOTE ]

WTF. Why isn't it "Hero pumps fist"?

Seriously, if you are this scared of playing deep just get up. Villain's going to use this as a scare card a TON. He's bluffing a lot here.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ok, so hero 3 bets? Calls and calls any river?

Re: I turn top and bottom deeeeeeeep
 

call and make a decision on the river

Re: I turn top and bottom deeeeeeeep
 

[ QUOTE ]
not sure why your scared of like any rivers. Call turn, call river, he's bluffing

[/ QUOTE ]

Re: I turn top and bottom deeeeeeeep
 

manchild, A2 and A3 are nothing alike here, the fact that I believe he's bluffing does not mean I believe that 1 pair and 2 pair have the same equity

Re: I turn top and bottom deeeeeeeep
 

[ QUOTE ]
not sure why your scared of like any rivers. Call turn, call river, he's bluffing

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah this seems right. Running into coolers for 2 days nonstop has messed with my head a bit.

Re: I turn top and bottom deeeeeeeep
 

had AT I assume ? about the only hand I can think of that would do this

Re: I turn top and bottom deeeeeeeep
 

am i the only one reading this who thinks that villain might smell not be able to put you on a hand and smell BS after you bet the flop and the turn? i think 3betting is a must, no?

Re: I turn top and bottom deeeeeeeep
 

sorry for the mistype,

am i the only one reading this who thinks that villain might not be able to put you on a hand and smell BS after you bet the flop and the turn? i think 3betting is a must, no?

is what i meant

Re: I turn top and bottom deeeeeeeep
 

so if he smells BS why do we want to 3 bet ?

Re: I turn top and bottom deeeeeeeep
 

[ QUOTE ]
had AT I assume ? about the only hand I can think of that would do this

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how bout Ax spades?

Re: I turn top and bottom deeeeeeeep
 

[ QUOTE ]
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had AT I assume ? about the only hand I can think of that would do this

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how bout Ax spades?

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he means the only hand that beats A3 i think

Re: I turn top and bottom deeeeeeeep
 

since he said it was a cooler, I assume he was beat

Re: I turn top and bottom deeeeeeeep
 

also, this deep, why would villian raise Axss, as a bluff ? For value ?

Re: I turn top and bottom deeeeeeeep
 

hm i would call the turn and check call the river - there are so many hands you beat there (AK AXsuited for example) there is a good chance that he use the Afor a bluff - any stats out about busted draw bluffing?

Re: I turn top and bottom deeeeeeeep
 

[ QUOTE ]
also, this deep, why would villian raise Axss, as a bluff ? For value ?

[/ QUOTE ]

you ought to know this

Re: I turn top and bottom deeeeeeeep
 

fwiw i call flop and call most, but not all rivers (prob fold a spade river, for example)

Re: I turn top and bottom deeeeeeeep
 

Villain's raise is small enough that it looks like they're bluffing since they don't want to risk too much if you call. I'd call and c/c most rivers cept the 6, T, spade.

Re: I turn top and bottom deeeeeeeep
 

$199

Re: I turn top and bottom deeeeeeeep
 

I think it could be a number of hands which you have beat, including a bluff off the Ace, a good A, and spades. A10 is obviously a possibility, but even if you did get coolered here its still just one of a number of holdings he could hold. I think you put in a big raise here. Spades will call, A solid A may call (which you should be ambivalent to, if you set the price right) and I doubt you were getting anymore from a bluff once you've decided to call. And yeah, you're going to get coolered with A10 but I think the combo of the draw the bluff at A and a good A means you are ahead in most instances.

Re: I turn top and bottom deeeeeeeep
 

just call, his range is pretty damn polarized imo

Re: I turn top and bottom deeeeeeeep
 

[ QUOTE ]
manchild, A2 and A3 are nothing alike here, the fact that I believe he's bluffing does not mean I believe that 1 pair and 2 pair have the same equity

[/ QUOTE ]

thanks for clarifying [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img] , thats what i thought

Re: I turn top and bottom deeeeeeeep
 

I think anything but calling is pretty bad.

Re: I turn top and bottom deeeeeeeep
 

i call and call river.

i think that he knows your doubling frequency is increased on this card in most cases and that he can (and prob should) take advantage of that. i would also think that he raises a set given stacks on the flop (in most cases).

so, i call and c/c river most times.