Optimal?
 

Is this a good way to give shortstackers a taste of their own medicine? Optimal play?

Poker Stars, $5/$10 NL Hold'em Cash Game, 8 Players
LegoPoker Hand History Converter

UTG+1: $950
MP1: $1,201.25
MP2: $1,227
CO: $249.25
Hero (BTN): $935
SB: $157
BB: $200
UTG: $1,296

Pre-Flop: Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] dealt to Hero (BTN)
5 folds, <font color="red">Hero raises to $935 and is All-In</font>

Re: Optimal?
 

Sounds +EV.
Dont know the SC numbers off hand but I bet the number for AQ is &gt; 40 and I assume you can divide by two for two opponents.

You could probably use software like SNQWIZ (there is a chip equity option) and assign calling ranges to them both.

Optimal would be a different debate but yes - a taste of their own medicine is goot for them.

Re: Optimal?
 

I don't like how you played that cause I think your hand is too weak for that line. If one of the blinds wakes up with say AK, JJ+ they'll def you call you and you might be in pretty bad shape. If they both fold you have invested 935$ to win 15 plus some advertising value maybe.
I wouldn't mind this line though with AK, QQ+ thoughto mix it up a little.
Just make a normal raise, in case you get reraised or of one them shoves you can still reevaluate.

Re: Optimal?
 

I think it's fine. They are about 5.9% likely to show up with a super premium hand there JJ+ or AK (from pokey's post on blind stealing) 17*$15 = $255 FE and we have 29% equity even when they call with that range. The rest of their range is a coinflip against us.

Re: Optimal?
 

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you have invested 935$ to win 15.


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read the HH again...effective stacks are $200

Re: Optimal?
 

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Sounds +EV.
Dont know the SC numbers off hand


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Pardon my ignorance..but what is this? (SC numbers)

Re: Optimal?
 

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The rest of their range is a coinflip against us.

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And the occasional AJ, AT-

Re: Optimal?
 

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you have invested 935$ to win 15.


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read the HH again...effective stacks are $200

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Ok, right. You have invested effectively 200 to win 15...Still a normal raise would achieve the same but I guess I understand your reasoning for your move. Just not my fav play...

Re: Optimal?
 

Assume they will call with AK, JJ+ thats 3.9% of hands.
Your equity against this range is 35%

I have simplified by giving them both $200.00 and assuming they will never both call.
My rough calculations

92.2% You win Blinds $15.00 = $13.83
2.73% (7.8% x 35%) You are called and win pot $400.00 = $10.92
5.07% (7.8% x 65%) You are called and lose pot -$400.00 = -$20.28

Equity from shove = $4.47.
Pretty close, +EV but high variance.
If they play predictably then a 3bb raise should steal their blinds a lot of the time and you can get away from a re-raise easy enough.

Re: Optimal?
 

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Sounds +EV.
Dont know the SC numbers off hand


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Pardon my ignorance..but what is this? (SC numbers)

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Sklansky Chubranov Numbers (Spelling?)
In short if you are in the SB with a given hand and the BB has a certain stack or smaller you can shove all in and the BB could not profit (in the long term) even if
- He knew your cards
- He had a perfect poker brain and could calculate equity instantly.

Thats a poor explaination, get a copy of NLTAP - all in there.

Re: Optimal?
 

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The rest of their range is a coinflip against us.

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And the occasional AJ, AT-

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Yes, I thought about those also. I think it's a good play, I hate playing flop poker with SS's

Re: Optimal?
 

I like it
din't look up if it is really right (considering SC numbers) but my gut says yes

Re: Optimal?
 

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I think it's a good play, I hate playing flop poker with SS's

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That's the gist of my shove...avoid continuation bets 2/3 of times when I have no idea what to do..

Re: Optimal?
 

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Assume they will call with AK, JJ+ thats 3.9% of hands.
Your equity against this range is 35%

I have simplified by giving them both $200.00 and assuming they will never both call.
My rough calculations

92.2% You win Blinds $15.00 = $13.83
2.73% (7.8% x 35%) You are called and win pot $400.00 = $10.92
5.07% (7.8% x 65%) You are called and lose pot -$400.00 = -$20.28

Equity from shove = $4.47.
Pretty close, +EV but high variance.
If they play predictably then a 3bb raise should steal their blinds a lot of the time and you can get away from a re-raise easy enough.

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Thank you for putting the time into doing this; but I think you assign them too tight a range. I didn't really have reads on them, but you can't assume they are perfect competent shortstackers. I think a wider range like 88+, AQ+ with some random hands like 5% of the time is in order.

Re: Optimal?
 

I just used the range Alex suggested when he didnt like the play - kind of a worst case scenario.
My guess is that there is no range that we dont profit against.

As Mike points out if we widen their range then we probably are adding hands like flipping PPs or favorites against AJ/KQ so thats even better.

Re: Optimal?
 

yeah i think you should just raise

its not like you are wanting to maximise FE here, AQ is a strong hand.

Re: Optimal?
 

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its not like you are wanting to maximise FE here, AQ is a strong hand.

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I don't know...against tight shortstackers, AQ is never the best hand when they call, so increasing FE seems like a good thing. For example, they may 3bet shove with 88 to a simple button steal, but this might get them to fold 88/99/AQ, which is a good thing. Of course, this assumes that these guys would fold AJ to a simple button steal, and that might not be true.

Re: Optimal?
 

man, i don't think this is the best line assuming they're compotent. Raise it up to $30. Also, unless the big stacks are huge fish I would probably just leave the game since you have a really [censored] seat at the table. At least get up and move to whatever open seat there is at the table.

Re: Optimal?
 

I always thought it was OK to be to the right of a Short Stack since you can steal his blinds (unless they adjust and start re-stealing correctly)

Re: Optimal?
 

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I always thought it was OK to be to the right of a Short Stack since you can steal his blinds (unless they adjust and start re-stealing correctly)

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I love being on the right of nitty shortstackers. Stealing their blinds almost pays for me to sit at the table and they will still stack off lighter than a full stack would.

Re: Optimal?
 

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man, i don't think this is the best line assuming they're compotent. Raise it up to $30. Also, unless the big stacks are huge fish I would probably just leave the game since you have a really [censored] seat at the table. At least get up and move to whatever open seat there is at the table.

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Just thinking....
Lets say they are good SS.
What hands are they cold-calling with then -
- Check/folding to a c-bet
- Stacking off with when an A or Q hits (and we have them beat)

If they are SS donks then I would be more inclined to make a standard raise and c-bet/shove any flop when checked to.
A competent SS will make life tricky with re-steals &amp; stop'n'gos.

Re: Optimal?
 

Allin is definitely fine, but people will figure out your range pretty quickly if you're only doing this with AJ+ and medium pairs every single time, even though it's not a big deal if they do. Assuming you normally raise 35-40 here against the blinds, I prefer raising to 40 to induce an resteal from hands like Ax, KQ, etc.

A normal shortstacker won't just call and stop and go, since he has some fold equity if he shoves. Either way, allinning the AQo is unexploitable, bottom line. The question is whether or not you want to induce a resteal.

Re: Optimal?
 

Standard raise seems better to me but I think its trivial overall.

Re: Optimal?
 

Also, get a auto reloader script. You are sitting at the table b/c you think you are one of the best players right? Why not maximize your EV?

Re: Optimal?
 

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Also, get a auto reloader script. You are sitting at the table b/c you think you are one of the best players right? Why not maximize your EV?

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I manually reload and obviously just hadn't had a chance to and probably lost the last pot. Where do I get said script?

Re: Optimal?
 

STARS AUTORELOADER.

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