Difference between your Online and B&M game?
 

What are some of the differences in your online play vs. your B&M play? How do you have to vary your game when you make this switch?

Re: Difference between your Online and B&M game?
 

I limp more live than online but not a ton of difference in the big picture as far as strategy goes. It's still poker.

Alot of online players think live poker is too slow but there is more of a "people" element to live poker.

Re: Difference between your Online and B&M game?
 

I thinks the tells aspect that everyone pushes is vastly overrated.

Live players generally offer spectacular implied odds, and the ability to limp. Because of the TAGGISH nature of most online games, limping is usually a bad strategy.

Because live players tend to call more, continuation bets aimed at the wrong players are stupid. Online, the cont bet is your best friend. I think live players get stuck on top pair wayyy more and your sets and flushes get paid.

On the other hand, the pace makes me want to stick a pencil in my eye and the rake is like, everything on the whole table every 2 hours or so.

From my perspective, it is the same game with vastly different player pools. Most good players will find that their edge is much higher live but that the inability to multitable, incredibly high rake, and slow pace counter this, and make the internet more profitable.

Re: Difference between your Online and B&M game?
 

The first that comes to my mind is the standard PF raise which is usually 2 to 3 times higher live.

Table image is also way more important in live game than online.

Re: Difference between your Online and B&M game?
 

During online, I feel like a social outcast. During live, I feel like the rest of the table are social outcasts.

Re: Difference between your Online and B&M game?
 

there is no difference for me. I suck equally at online poker as I do live.

Re: Difference between your Online and B&M game?
 

The major difference for me is booze. Online I don't drink to stay focused. Live I have to drink to stay sane.

Re: Difference between your Online and B&M game?
 

Preflop raises. Online standard for 1/2 is 6-10. Live 15-25+ is standard, at least in my game.

Live players are much, much worse. If I could play 500 hands/hr with live players with infinite money I would make $1500/hr easily.

Re: Difference between your Online and B&M game?
 

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During online, I feel like a social outcast. During live, I feel like the rest of the table are social outcasts.

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this is incredible

Re: Difference between your Online and B&M game?
 

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During online, I feel like a social outcast. During live, I feel like the rest of the table are social outcasts.

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I like this.

I find I have great success live. I have minimal success online. Which is why I love playing live.

Re: Difference between your Online and B&M game?
 

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On the other hand, the pace makes me want to stick a pencil in my eye and the rake is like, everything on the whole table every 2 hours or so.

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Every two hours?!? Live casinos run .25/.50 limit?

Re: Difference between your Online and B&M game?
 

Online
+easy to table shop, easy to have good starting hand discipline (fast pace, multi-tabling). Easy to leave if it sucks.
-fish bust out quick, usually replaced by another but no sure thing. Easy to have household distractions.

Live
+Fish, fish that keep pulling out more hundos, fish that go to the atm, fish that make credit card withdrawls at the cage. Scenery. Conversation.
-got to drive there. Tend to stay when stuck/playing poorly (i.e. turn into da fish). Can be boring (hello conversation or ipod)

Re: Difference between your Online and B&M game?
 

Live Lower and Mid Limit
The Play = Loose/Passive - You can limp more marginal hands (Axs, 78s, 33) because the chance of others limping and nobody raising behind you are high. You play most hands multiway (5+players). You can't really bluff or continuation bet because they will call you with any pair or draw. Just wait to get big hands and get paid off.
Negatives
-it may be hard to leave if things go bad early and you have driven a long way to get there.
-People can be annoying
-You will play less hands per hour
Positives
-You can actually look at the people at the tables which can help you pick out the right ones to play at.
-People are often interesting
-Intangibles of playing live, Stacking the chips, feeling the cards, etc...

Online Micro Limit and up.
The Play = Tight/Aggressive - you can't limp into lots of pots because it's likely to get raised or 3 bet behind you. You play most hands 2 or 3 way. You have to wait for good hands and you should usually be raising if coming into a hand. You don't cold call with any dominated type hands. If you have the right image you can make some moves that will work.
Negatives
-You feel like a hermit
-Can't see players and physical tells, mannerisms
Positives
-You can play more hands
-Easier to quit if you are getting crushed

I prefer live a lot better these days but both have good and bad aspects as you can see..

Re: Difference between your Online and B&M game?
 

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I thinks the tells aspect that everyone pushes is vastly overrated.

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Me too.

Just empirically, live play is about having fun. People are gambling and don't expect to have an edge necessarily (they play roulette and blackjack too, right?) And then there are the guys who think they know what they're doing, but don't.

Online is the opposite. The people there have studied, are tighter, vary their play more, etc.

Obviously there is some overlap and there are gamblers online and serious players live, but that is a tendency.

Then of course the social aspect and actually being in front of someone can change how you play your hands too.

Re: Difference between your Online and B&M game?
 

I think that most online players undervalue physical reads, and most live players overvalue them.

They are a terrific complementary tool, but unless you are Phil Hellmuth, they are not going to make or break you.

The one tell-group I'd always advise people to look for is a version of 'I'm going to fold'. If they really want to fold, I'm more than happy to bluff them. If I can steal one pot per hour off this, I'll cover my time charges, my lunch, and pay for gas/tolls/parking.

Re: Difference between your Online and B&M game?
 

everyone - Please keep in mind the OP asked about play in general, he was not specifically referring to NL or limit hold'em. Normally we would move a thread like this to the relevant strategy forum but since the OP is vague we can keep the thread in B&M assuming the thread doesn't become specific about a game. Thanks in advance!

Re: Difference between your Online and B&M game?
 

I have found that online I tend to get distracted more and focus less (2+2, porn, news, ect). When I play live, I am in a cardroom, there is nothing to do EXCEPT pay attention to the game and chat up the other players. I really feel that my live success is due to not only the weaker players, but I just flat play better.

FWIW, I also do not use PT or PTHUD. I don't like the idea of a database doing all my work for me and I feel it's borderline cheating. These are tools not available to me live, therefore I don't want to become dependant on reading my opp as 24/8 instead of paing attention to each person at the table.

Re: Difference between your Online and B&M game?
 

Some live players need a crash course in personal hygiene, so bring a nose plug, mints, gum, etc.

Re: Difference between your Online and B&M game?
 

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Some live players need a crash course in personal hygiene, so bring a nose plug, mints, gum, etc.

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No kidding. I sat down at an awesome cash table (well, as awesome as $2-5 can be) and my eyes were watering from some guy that bathed in BenGay for some kind of back injury he would not shut up about. I was able to tuneout the whining with my iPod, but the BenGay was pretty overwhelming.

Fortunately, BenGay Guy went away after about 45 minutes. But then I went to another poker room to play in a tournament and got seated next to AfterShave Man and Patchouli Dude. Damn.

After the tourney I went back to play cash and guess who I got seated next to? Slurring Scotch-on-the-Rocks Guy. I caught a buzz just from his breath. And why is it the more some one's breath reeks of booze the closer they need to be to your face when they talk to you?

There's nothing quite like live poker. The sights, the sounds, the smells.....

Re: Difference between your Online and B&M game?
 

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FWIW, I also do not use PT or PTHUD. I don't like the idea of a database doing all my work for me and I feel it's borderline cheating. These are tools not available to me live, therefore I don't want to become dependant on reading my opp as 24/8 instead of paing attention to each person at the table.

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your making an error in your thought process. PT and a hud makes the online game more like a live game, it does not give you a significant edge at all, it only helps you remember what your opponent online - who does not have a face - has done in the past. Live this is very easy to remember especially since we all tend to play with the same core groups of players week after week, online you need some help to make it a level playing field with live play. Of course there are some players who play by the stats they see on the screen only, luckily this style of play will actually put them at a disadvantage... I welcome "hud bots" in my games because I can generally take advantage of their weaknesses.

Also keep in mind there isn't a single online room that thinks using a HUD/poker tracker is cheating, so why should you?

Sorry to get off topic, its just that this is such a commonly misunderstood concept by live players who play online as well.

Re: Difference between your Online and B&M game?
 

The biggest difference between online and live for me is the games I play. I rarely play NLHE online and I rarely play Triple Draw live. So, I guess I have to vary my play a lot. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Re: Difference between your Online and B&M game?
 

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Some live players need a crash course in personal hygiene, so bring a nose plug, mints, gum, etc.

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No kidding. I sat down at an awesome cash table (well, as awesome as $2-5 can be) and my eyes were watering from some guy that bathed in BenGay for some kind of back injury he would not shut up about. I was able to tuneout the whining with my iPod, but the BenGay was pretty overwhelming.

Fortunately, BenGay Guy went away after about 45 minutes. But then I went to another poker room to play in a tournament and got seated next to AfterShave Man and Patchouli Dude. Damn.

After the tourney I went back to play cash and guess who I got seated next to? Slurring Scotch-on-the-Rocks Guy. I caught a buzz just from his breath. And why is it the more some one's breath reeks of booze the closer they need to be to your face when they talk to you?

There's nothing quite like live poker. The sights, the sounds, the smells.....

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I probably could handle ben gay or a strong aftershave or something....I sat next to an older gentleman in a 1/2nl game a few weeks ago & he absolutely reeked. Finally my nose figured out that it was a combination of b.o. & piss. Ewww. The first seat that came open, I took it.

Re: Difference between your Online and B&M game?
 

I got the flu a couple of times. Once the dealer sat down sniffling and red faced. Sure enough the next day so was I. Now I try to use a hand cleaner and wash after I get up.

Re: Difference between your Online and B&M game?
 

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No kidding. I sat down at an awesome cash table (well, as awesome as $2-5 can be) and my eyes were watering from some guy that bathed in BenGay for some kind of back injury he would not shut up about. I was able to tuneout the whining with my iPod, but the BenGay was pretty overwhelming.

Fortunately, BenGay Guy went away after about 45 minutes. But then I went to another poker room to play in a tournament and got seated next to AfterShave Man and Patchouli Dude. Damn.

After the tourney I went back to play cash and guess who I got seated next to? Slurring Scotch-on-the-Rocks Guy. I caught a buzz just from his breath. And why is it the more some one's breath reeks of booze the closer they need to be to your face when they talk to you?

There's nothing quite like live poker. The sights, the sounds, the smells.....

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One of the very few things to like about my smoking: I'm less susceptible to the stench of Patchouli Guy.

By the way, what was some hippie doing in a cardroom?

Re: Difference between your Online and B&M game?
 

He had more of a Unabomber / Hunter S. Thompson thing going than the hippie thing. That guy was a riot.

Re: Difference between your Online and B&M game?
 

I just feel much more confident making aggressive moves online than I do in a poker room. That's the main difference. Somebody above mentioned game selection. I play alot of OH8 online, and I've never even played Omaha live.

Re: Difference between your Online and B&M game?
 

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I just feel much more confident making aggressive moves online than I do in a poker room. That's the main difference. Somebody above mentioned game selection. I play alot of OH8 online, and I've never even played Omaha live.

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I think your first and last sentences are strongly related. The first time I played in a live room, I was so nervous I could barely get the chips out of my stack and into the middle. The nervousness makes it easy to play weak-tight, because you don't yet have the live experience to relax and play correctly.

When I first started playing live, I found it easier to relax when I consciously broke down a hand, and imagined the events taking place on a virtual table. Once I was able to visualize it as an online game, I could make the right decisions and start to relax. Well, until showdown anyway.

And that brings us to the biggest difference between live & online for me: online, I can tell my monitor exactly what I think of someone else's play. Live, I have to smile and say either "nice hand, sir" or "aww, I just got lucky" depending on who wins.

Re: Difference between your Online and B&M game?
 

Yeah. Internet poker is like a long drive in your car with the windows rolled up. Live poker is like a long drive on your motorcycle. The cow pastures take on a whole new significance.

ps 7CS is easier online in terms of remembering what cards are dead. Don't have to move your head, don't miss quick folders.

Re: Difference between your Online and B&M game?
 

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ps 7CS is easier online in terms of remembering what cards are dead. Don't have to move your head, don't miss quick folders.

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I disagree, I find live board games much easier than online to remember cards. Only thing I have to do to adjust is stand up a bit more often to get a birds eye view.

Re: Difference between your Online and B&M game?
 

I play 50NL online and 300NL live, and while I "think" i am a better player online, my win rate is much better live. For me, I think the games are much softer live, (at my stakes) I usually can just go bear hunting and know I will get paid off on my good hands. Online, I feel people pay attention more and use more complex betting.

Re: Difference between your Online and B&M game?
 

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I play 50NL online and 300NL live, and while I "think" i am a better player online, my win rate is much better live. For me, I think the games are much softer live, (at my stakes) I usually can just go bear hunting and know I will get paid off on my good hands. Online, I feel people pay attention more and use more complex betting.

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Sammy - you might consider changing your live win rate statement to "perceieved live win rate". If your the average online pro who splits his time between live and online then your online winrate will converge <u>years</u> before your live win rate does.

Re: Difference between your Online and B&M game?
 

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I have found that online I tend to get distracted more and focus less (2+2, porn, news, ect). When I play live, I am in a cardroom, there is nothing to do EXCEPT pay attention to the game and chat up the other players. I really feel that my live success is due to not only the weaker players, but I just flat play better.

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QFT. I barely break even at 25NL but I have a 5BB/hr winrate at live poker (not great, but good enough to get some extra bucks). The games are just so much softer and for me it's also easier to focus (iPod is a must).

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FWIW, I also do not use PT or PTHUD. I don't like the idea of a database doing all my work for me and I feel it's borderline cheating. These are tools not available to me live, therefore I don't want to become dependant on reading my opp as 24/8 instead of paing attention to each person at the table.

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If you say you can't focus when playing online then you have to have PT and HUD. If I didn't have them I'd be a losing player online. I find no conflict between using them and getting reads on live poker.

Re: Difference between your Online and B&M game?
 

.25-.50NL online has players than 2-3 live.

Re: Difference between your Online and B&M game?
 

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If I could play 500 hands/hr with live players with infinite money I would make $1500/hr easily.

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But why would you need to... DUCY?

Re: Difference between your Online and B&M game?
 

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Also keep in mind there isn't a single online room that thinks using a HUD/poker tracker is cheating, so why should you?

Sorry to get off topic, its just that this is such a commonly misunderstood concept by live players who play online as well.

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I don't disagree with your point regarding PT and HUD, but I know that whichever network includes PlayersOnly, views PT and HUD as cheating and does not allow them.

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Now, to keep this topical, the biggest difference between my online game and my live game is that online my stats are something like 28/16/4(primarily 6-max). Which puts me in the PT category of Ultra-Aggressor. I'm not saying this is optimal play, but thats how it is.

Live I would put myself closer to 40/20/3. Solidly in LAG territory. Primarily because in the games I'm playing, 1/2 or 2/5 NL, there is almost always 4-8 people seeing the flop unless it's raised to 8-10x BB. It results in a bit more variance but I'm right around 8-10 bb/hr vs about 7 online.

I'm willing to call some bigger raises preflop with suited connectors and smaller pairs it Mr. Rock is raising because he/she is pretty much guaranteed to put the rest of their stack in the middle with any overpair or TPTK.