plo100 - playing a non nut wrap??
 

BB is shortstacking and finished the session 69/0/0.2, SB runs 56/7/1.83, splashes around alot and goes to SD 31%. Am i better raising here to get it HU or flat calling??

Cryptologic
Pot Limit Omaha Ring game
Blinds: $0.50/$1
5 players
Converter

Stack sizes:
Hero: $99
CO: $75.85
Button: $187.72
SB: $93.15
BB: $40.31

Pre-flop: (5 players) Hero is UTG with T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
<font color="#cc0000">Hero raises to $3.5</font>, 2 folds, SB calls, BB calls.

Flop: 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] ($10.5, 3 players)
SB checks, <font color="#cc0000">BB bets $10.5</font>, Hero??

Re: plo100 - playing a non nut wrap??
 

Shove. You have strong hand.

Re: plo100 - playing a non nut wrap??
 

uh-uh. BB has 0.2 af, so i call flop and prob call turn
he def should have a set here and i dont think we have any fold eqity.

Re: plo100 - playing a non nut wrap??
 

[ QUOTE ]
Shove. You have strong hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

Horrible advice. Think next time.

Shortstacker clearly has a set and your hand plays better 3 ways than heads up, so calling is preferred.

Re: plo100 - playing a non nut wrap??
 

I'd shove. BB doesn't "clearly" have a set, your hand doesn't play all that well on the turn if the guy overcalls, and it is nice to clean up some outs if you can make the other guy fold.

Re: plo100 - playing a non nut wrap??
 

[ QUOTE ]
I'd shove. BB doesn't "clearly" have a set, your hand doesn't play all that well on the turn if the guy overcalls, and it is nice to clean up some outs if you can make the other guy fold.

[/ QUOTE ]

With an aggression factor that low it is clear you are behind his range, which includes him having a larger straight wrap. Either way calling is better over raising as it lets you get off the hand if the third player reraises.
You really do want a third caller, don't be forcing out players with 2 pair themselves.
Raising to "clean up out" also means you "clean up" dead money. Third player is loose and will overcall with garbage if you let him into the pot. The extra money in the pot more than makes up from any outs he may have.

Re: plo100 - playing a non nut wrap??
 

It sure looks like BB is willing to commit himself to this hand. I have a hard time putting him on a set here. Wouldn't he be looking for an opportunity to c/r this flop? Anyhow, I think a call is optimal as maybe it string along the SB and sweetens our pot. If the turn pairs the board I think you can get away on the cheap. Overall, I don't see a shove being the optimal play here.

Re: plo100 - playing a non nut wrap??
 

I am not familiar with PT stats for Omaha, does an aggression factor of .2 basically mean he is only bettin sets/top two? Can it ever include AA or draws? Thanks in advance.

Re: plo100 - playing a non nut wrap??
 

0.2 post flop aggression means he takes the aggressive action (bet/raise) a tiny percent of the time, however since he is playing 70% of his hands his aggression is not as low as it seems since it scales inversely with VP$IP (I think.. I'm tired.)

Re: plo100 - playing a non nut wrap??
 

Call. Your hand plays better three way here, so taking a shot at getting SB into the pot is worth it. As it is, BB has a nothing stack, so shoving to get it heads up does little except make you coinflip for small potatoes.

Re: plo100 - playing a non nut wrap??
 

ok so a mix between shove and call, which is how i felt playing the hand. When i am in a situation where im not sure whether call or shove is optimal i usually go with the agressive option, as i find it keeps your decisions further along slightly easier. So i shove hoping to get HU with shortie in some kind of flip

Flop: 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] ($10.5, 3 players)
SB checks, <font color="#cc0000">BB bets $10.5</font>, <font color="#cc0000">Hero raises to $42</font>, SB calls, <font color="#cc0000">BB calls all-in $26.31</font>.

Turn: 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] ($131.31, 2 players + 1 all-in - Main pot: $120.93, Sidepot 1: $10.38)
SB checks, Hero??

ugh, see what i mean about spashy?? so what does SB have here? i think 2 pair/set are discountable so that leaves draws - i think its important to note i have top pair here, and also no fold equity.

So am i better shoving and hoping he has a similar draw and a lower or no pair so my jacks will take the side pot, or just check it down??

Re: plo100 - playing a non nut wrap??
 

I see people cold calling reraises a lot more in PLO than NLHE, but I still think he's generally pretty strong here.

I'd take the card.

Re: plo100 - playing a non nut wrap??
 

fold

yeah, i usually give nit answers but heres my reasoning and i think its sound.

bb is short. shorties are more apt to make desperate plays so i'll find a better spot. i believe in keeping the poor exactly that.......poor.

you dont know what sb is going to do......flat calling or raising could get ugly so that brings up a big fat question mark.

you could already be behind as it stands and your redraw could be a tie with his or if you make 2 pair could make him a better straight and so on.

if you had a redraw to the nuts, then it would be different and even that scenario isnt that great in my book because villan is not that deep to give off a good enough reward to make it worth the risk.

i fold. cut the head off before the headache arrives.

Re: plo100 - playing a non nut wrap??
 

wow, when i read a post, i always give a replie without reading the other comments. i always read the comments afterward.

i am so far off with my replie vs. the consensus.

idk, i hate to get possibly stuck in the middle with the sb lurking quietly......possibly waiting to throw a monkey wrench into the scenario.

i look at a session as a war. we can pick and choose our battles. i really hate tight situations and this one is a classic.

you call and sb folds. the turn is a brick. villan bets pot again and now what? villan doesnt have much behind now so wheres the reward? now equity comes into play and we get into the call and hope mode. i dont like this form of poker. i like to be the one dictating and let the others worry about what to do.

ive always said not much good comes from answering telephones and calling in poker......unless you have the nuts or a monster draw. this is not a monster draw.

like i said before, sb and bb are short, one of them will make a thin play eventually into my strong hand and if i win it or lose it from there, i'll feel better about it.

Re: plo100 - playing a non nut wrap??
 

[ QUOTE ]
ok so a mix between shove and call, which is how i felt playing the hand. When i am in a situation where im not sure whether call or shove is optimal i usually go with the agressive option, as i find it keeps your decisions further along slightly easier. So i shove hoping to get HU with shortie in some kind of flip

Flop: 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] ($10.5, 3 players)
SB checks, <font color="#cc0000">BB bets $10.5</font>, <font color="#cc0000">Hero raises to $42</font>, SB calls, <font color="#cc0000">BB calls all-in $26.31</font>.

Turn: 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] ($131.31, 2 players + 1 all-in - Main pot: $120.93, Sidepot 1: $10.38)
SB checks, Hero??

ugh, see what i mean about spashy?? so what does SB have here? i think 2 pair/set are discountable so that leaves draws - i think its important to note i have top pair here, and also no fold equity.

So am i better shoving and hoping he has a similar draw and a lower or no pair so my jacks will take the side pot, or just check it down??

[/ QUOTE ]

ugh, theres more to the hand? lol razor, your doing an excellent job of stringing us along in this twisted hand. i'd say its pretty obvious sb has Q 10 with god knows what else. lol, ive seen idiots play middle or bottom set the same passive way too. they cant re raise with their hand but they can call off all this crazy action. people who play like that drive me crazy.

i cant see any other line than taking the free card here on the turn. but then again, i couldnt blame anyone for shoving here too because the pot and situation has already gotten some what out of control and lets face it, you might win a big pot with the right river card......or atleast win a decent side pot.

my gut says flip a coin.