holy [censored], flopped quads!
 

Semi-kidding. I did, but that's not the reason why I had you click. Hey, nothing in the FAQ against a little humor lol.

Juliio's my name and .02/.04 is my game. I had a pretty good session tonight and in general I feel like my LHE game has come a long way. So I'm gonna post some of my troubled hands in the session. Since this is another "oh no, not more than 1 hand" post, feel free to comment on whatever you want.

Hand 1

Honestly, I had a sense that I had the best hand on the flop but I didn't bet cause of one behind me and if someone was slowplaying that 10. Another round of checks on the turn, figure I'll pop it once, and if I get re-raised some rat just slow-played me. I was too chickenshit to fire another one on the river even though I knew I had the best hand.

Poker Stars
Limit Holdem Ring game
Limit: $0.02/$0.04
7 players
Converter

Pre-flop: (7 players) Hero is MP1 with 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
UTG folds, UTG+1 calls, Hero calls, CO calls, 2 folds, 2 folds, BB checks.

Flop: Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (4.5SB, 4 players)
BB checks, UTG+1 checks, Hero checks, CO checks.

Turn: 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2.25BB, 4 players)
BB checks, UTG+1 checks, <font color="#cc0000">Hero bets</font>, CO calls, 2 folds.

River: 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (4.25BB, 2 players)
Hero checks, CO checks.

Results:
Final pot: 4.25BB

Hand 2

Wowie, lots of possibilities. 5+9+4 outs, and I already hit a piece. But here's the real question.. Is this hand worth capping down to the river?

Poker Stars
Limit Holdem Ring game
Limit: $0.02/$0.04
7 players
Converter

Pre-flop: (7 players) Hero is SB with 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
UTG calls, UTG+1 folds, MP1 calls, CO calls, Button calls, Hero calls, BB checks.

Flop: Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (6SB, 6 players)
<font color="#cc0000">Hero bets</font>, BB calls, UTG calls, MP1 calls, CO folds, Button calls.

Turn: 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (5.5BB, 5 players)
Hero checks, BB checks, UTG checks, MP1 checks, <font color="#cc0000">Button bets</font>, Hero calls, BB calls, UTG calls, MP1 calls.

River: 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (10.5BB, 5 players)
<font color="#cc0000">Hero bets</font>, 3 folds, <font color="#cc0000">Button calls all-in $0.02</font>.
Uncalled bets: 0.5BB returned to Hero.

Results:
Final pot: 11.5BB

Hand 3

So I won't be considered a liar lol. I need to flop these more often.

Poker Stars
Limit Holdem Ring game
Limit: $0.02/$0.04
8 players
Converter

Pre-flop: (8 players) Hero is Button with 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
2 folds, MP1 calls, MP2 folds, CO calls, Hero calls, SB calls, BB checks.

Flop: 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (5SB, 5 players)
SB checks, BB checks, MP1 checks, CO checks, <font color="#cc0000">Hero bets</font>, 3 folds, CO calls.

Turn: 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3.5BB, 2 players)
CO checks, <font color="#cc0000">Hero bets</font>, CO folds.
Uncalled bets: 1BB returned to Hero.

Results:
Final pot: 3.5BB

Hand 4

Did I play this hand too cautiously on turn and river?

Poker Stars
Limit Holdem Ring game
Limit: $0.02/$0.04
5 players
Converter

Pre-flop: (5 players) Hero is CO with 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
UTG calls, Hero calls, Button calls, SB calls, BB checks.

Flop: K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (5SB, 5 players)
SB checks, BB checks, UTG checks, <font color="#cc0000">Hero bets</font>, Button calls, SB folds, BB calls, UTG folds.

Turn: A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (4BB, 3 players)
BB checks, Hero checks, Button checks.

River: T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (4BB, 3 players)
BB checks, Hero checks, Button checks.

Results:
Final pot: 4BB

Hand 5

Was I correct to raise and call on the turn? Top pair+flush draw+8s. I thought I made a good decision on the river, but my real concern here is my play on the turn.

Poker Stars
Limit Holdem Ring game
Limit: $0.02/$0.04
6 players
Converter

Pre-flop: (6 players) Hero is CO with Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
2 folds, Hero calls, Button folds, <font color="#cc0000">SB raises</font>, BB calls, Hero calls.

Flop: J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (6SB, 3 players)
<font color="#cc0000">SB bets</font>, BB calls, Hero calls.

Turn: T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (4.5BB, 3 players)
<font color="#cc0000">SB bets</font>, BB calls, <font color="#cc0000">Hero raises</font>, <font color="#cc0000">SB 3-bets</font>, BB folds, Hero calls.

River: K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (11.5BB, 2 players)
<font color="#cc0000">SB bets</font>, Hero calls.

Results:
Final pot: 13.5BB

Re: holy [censored], flopped quads!
 

tl;dr

Re: holy [censored], flopped quads!
 

Don't post quad hands, they are boring and there are no decisions to make.

Re: holy [censored], flopped quads!
 

Usually, post fewer hands. Also, I prefer splitting them over posts.

Hand 1: I bet the flop, close down if I get more than 1 caller, otherwise bet this turn.

Hand 2: I bet the turn for value and also a bit to protect my hand.
I just call if someone raises the river.

Hand 3: I'd consider to actually slowplay the flop here, though it's rather unfortunate here that you're betting chases everyone out.

Hand 4: Maybe you can bet the river because a lot of K-x with worse kickers may call, but it's rather marginal.

Hand 5: Fold preflop (or raise, but certainly no limp).
I check-raise the flop. As played, I just call the turn. As played, the river is a call, though not a happy one.

Re: holy [censored], flopped quads!
 

Hand One:

This is value poker time here not superstar death match.

I think you have to learn to lead with decent pockets and get yourself in trouble sometimes but realize that equity will come.

88's are good starting hands to bet with in the middle of the pack first in. Lead the flop and then see what happens. Knowing the ranges of your opponents is important with pockets, to know what to do next.

You definitely missed a value bet on the river.

Hand Two:

Bet the Turn you just got 2.5 more outs. You have 8 flush outs, 1 straight flush out, 5.5 straight outs and 2 for trips which may be good. 16 outs is nothing to sneeze at. They miss but the equity is so good here, I don't care what they do afterwards. They called the flop you have equity so bet for very easy value. If anyone of them had anything close to a monster draw here other than yourself I would be amazed. Because of position you can't reraise sadly when you missed the value bet to start.

Hand Three:

button again I raise with the 55's in a limped pot. Position is a huge advantage here. If you limp on the button you cost yourself a lot of equity here even when you miss the set.

Hand 4:

Fear is going to kill you. Bet for value on the turn, if someone has the ace they call or raise. What happens when they raise? Well that is where reads happen. Will BB slow play an ace? Doubtful if they watched you at all and if they didn't they donk whenever they see an Ace when they have one anyways so not to concerned of him.

Button called preflop. Usually that means he has a non ace hand in a limped board. He might have a king of course but if you check to him and he bets you have to fold. I am pretty sure he doesn't have an ace. He seemed content to call with the King so now he may fold with the ace, if he calls 9 kicker may be good enough. Guarantee though he isn't check/raising unless he slowplayed preflop. Not likely at this level. Bet/fold the river not a great card for you.


Hand 5:

Why did you call the flop? Seriously what was going through your mind. How many outs do you have on the flop? On the turn?

You are passive preflop and postflop. You need to work on upping your aggression. Q9s in CO is an easy raising hand preflop. Definitely reraise the SB donk. I guess you know what I am going to say on the river call too.

My lord do you miss a lot of value.


I would consider you a good student and willing to learn. I would practice counting outs and understanding equity positions a lot better. You don't have to have the nuts to bet.

Tell yourself that you aren't afraid to lose the money. I started the exact same way as you by the way.

Now I am one of the loosest most aggressive successful microers. I did a few exercises to get myself out of the shell of fear. Fear is the mindkiller.

Read Psychology of Poker, The Poker Mindset, and Killer Poker in that order. Do the workbook exercises in all 3 books.

Trust me it will help your game.

PS. Move up to .5/.10 as soon as you have 300bb as a bankroll, ie 30 bucks. When you have some winnings at that level you can move down and do some training exercises outlined in Killer Poker without too much money to lose.

I believe you will be surprised by the results however and not lose.

Re: holy [censored], flopped quads!
 

[ QUOTE ]
Hey, nothing in the FAQ against a little humor lol.

[/ QUOTE ]

If you'd actually READ the FAQ, you'd know it's not a good idea to post more than one hand at a time just because they're from the same session.

Hand 1, bet the flop.
Hand 2, don't bet the flop.
Hand 3, siihp.
Hand 4, meh, if you bet the turn you have to fold to a raise.
Hand 5, raise pf if you're going to play. Raise the flop. Call the turn and fold river.

Re: holy [censored], flopped quads!
 

Hand 5:

fold a straight because the guy has an ace 100% of the time?

WTF?

Re: holy [censored], flopped quads!
 

[ QUOTE ]
Hand 3, siihp.

[/ QUOTE ]

WTF??? [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]??

Re: holy [censored], flopped quads!
 

[ QUOTE ]
Hand 5:

fold a straight because the guy has an ace 100% of the time?

WTF?

[/ QUOTE ]

No, because he has an ace &gt; 7% of the time, given the action (unless you know that he's at the table with a seeing-eye dog and a respirator [he can't see OR breathe without help]). And, not for nothing, if Hero had raised either pf or on the flop, the hand would be playing a lot easier now.

Re: holy [censored], flopped quads!
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Hand 3, siihp.

[/ QUOTE ]

WTF??? [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]??

[/ QUOTE ]

Do you not know what it means, or why I said it? I said it because, short of "don't fold," what are you really going to say about a quads hand? As to what it means, try the search function.

Re: holy [censored], flopped quads!
 

I know what it means ... but I didn't think you would recomend it on a poker table. I have so much to learn. OP, just be safe OK?

Re: holy [censored], flopped quads!
 

[img]/images/graemlins/mad.gif[/img]there is not humor on this board ... it is only deadly serious poker talk [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

hand 1
you could also raise preflop (at either a tightish table or a donkey table, on a semi-tight I probably just fold)

after two guys check to you in an unraised pot you should generally bet here ... or course an idiot with a Ten here will slow play

hand 2
PF fine
flop fine
turn .. either or (the 6 doesn't change too much, so i don't expect a raise)

hand 3
i slow play in this spot after everyone check the flop ... there is nothing on that board and do not expect to get called my a lot. I want to keep everybody in the pot and hope the turn makes someone a hand

but whatever you do it doesn't really matter

hand 4
OK ... by hand 4 I would normally be like - [censored] these stupid noobs and their god-damn multi post
but other than the stupid quad hand you posted these are OK hands

PF is pretty [censored] ... but whatever
bet the flop
bet/fold the turn ... or check/fold
river sucks so yeah - check ... if not T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] and instead a blank I might bet

hand 5
preflop is really crappy (what was I saying about these hands being OK??)
flop could be a fold ... i might raise ... or call
turn is not a raise (why do you think it is0
flop is not a call (you are not getting 12:1)


<font color="red">anyways ... don't post multi-hand questions
at least they weren't all ZMOG i've got some Aces - what do I do</font>

Re: holy [censored], flopped quads!
 

Hand three was played perfectly. I don't know about the rest. Too many of them and too complicated for me.

Re: holy [censored], flopped quads!
 

[ QUOTE ]
Hand 2, don't bet the flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

Could Boz or anyone else please explain why you should not bet the flop in this hand with your flush draw ?

Re: holy [censored], flopped quads!
 

nothing wrong with a bet there imo. not sure if he wants to checkraise instead which i think is okay but not quite as good because of our position and the nature of the board.

Re: holy [censored], flopped quads!
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Hand 2, don't bet the flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

Could Boz or anyone else please explain why you should not bet the flop in this hand with your flush draw ?

[/ QUOTE ]

How about you tell me why you WOULD bet the flop, and I'll tell you why THAT'S wrong? [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

These are spots where I used to step on it, and after much argument with Miles have decided that it's not optimal. It's not wrong, per se, I'd just rather see the action behind me before I decide what I want to do. Our position is poor, our made hand is weak, none of our draws are to the nuts, and our FE against the field is sub-zero.

fwiw, if I'm in LP and it's checked to me I'll bet it 100%.

Edited to add:

One: In Hand 5, if you think it's ok to call the river, you shouldn't have called the flop.

Two: I just noticed that these are .02/.04 hands. Save the Micros.

Re: holy [censored], flopped quads!
 

Re - Hand 2

[ QUOTE ]
How about you tell me why you WOULD bet the flop, and I'll tell you why THAT'S wrong? [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

These are spots where I used to step on it, and after much argument with Miles have decided that it's not optimal. It's not wrong, per se, I'd just rather see the action behind me before I decide what I want to do. Our position is poor, our made hand is weak, none of our draws are to the nuts, and our FE against the field is sub-zero.

fwiw, if I'm in LP and it's checked to me I'll bet it 100%.



[/ QUOTE ]

I would have bet the flop because, although you have many opponents, you dont know whether anyone else will bet if you dont.

Your outs are not to the nuts, but with your (3rd nut) flush draw (1 to a str. flush), I would have thought that you probably had an equity edge on the flop to make betting worthwhile.

Re: holy [censored], flopped quads!
 

[ QUOTE ]
I would have bet the flop because, although you have many opponents, you dont know whether anyone else will bet if you dont.

Your outs are not to the nuts, but with your flush draw (1 to a str. flush), I would have thought that you probably had an equity edge on the flop to make betting worthwhile.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is a situation where I'm not too worried about giving out a freebie, and I'd rather know I have an equity edge (by seeing a bet and a couple of calls) before I try to exploit it.

However, I will say that I just looked back at the hand and Hero checking the turn after betting the flop and being called around is pretty bad, given that he just picked up 3 more outs.

Re: holy [censored], flopped quads!
 

All 5 hands show a lack of experience with value betting so grouping them together is quite functional here.

Bottom line for the OP, I would start practicing my value betting skills with pokerstove putting in different situations to see what equity hands have against certain flops and ranges.

Re: holy [censored], flopped quads!
 

The first thing I'd like to say is that I'm going to stop posting more than 2 hands per post. I'll still post 2 per post because there are so many hands I want to talk about, but I can't dwell for days on end on a single session, I gotta keep moving.

I'd also like to thank everyone who have been helping me time and time again with my game

I tend to be tight/passive because I'm still not deviating much from Sklansky's starting hands charts. I haven't finished his book yet, or read all the stickies in this forum.

I'll also post my PT stats for the regulars out there

Tight-Passive/Aggressive, .02/.04 LHE, 1,000 hands
vpip - 16.10
vp from sb - 26.09
folded sb to steal - 50
att. to steal blinds - 6.06
won $ wsf% - 29.33
bb/100 hands - 7.13
went to sd% - 30.22
won $ at sd% - 67.65
pfr% - 4.5
flop af - 2.3
turn af - 1.84
river af - 1.75
total af - 2

Re: holy [censored], flopped quads!
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Hand 2, don't bet the flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

Could Boz or anyone else please explain why you should not bet the flop in this hand with your flush draw ?

[/ QUOTE ]

that flop is easily raise by another player ... if it the guy next to you (well ... that kind of sucks)

c.c, bet, or c.r ... doesn't really matter IMO