KK vs calling station who got agressive
 

Villain is 54/5/1.4

Full Tilt Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (4 handed) Hand History converter Courtesy of PokerZion.com

BB ($50)
Hero ($88.85)
Button ($47.35)
SB ($81.20)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
<font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $2</font>, Button calls $2, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>.

Flop: ($4.75) 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets $4.75</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Button raises to $9.5</font>,

hero ???

how often is KK going to be good here? He's never doing this with a flush draw in my opinion, he's the type that just calls if someone bets, but he will bet some really retarded crap if everyone checked.

Re: KK vs calling station who got agressive
 

Crap, I hate these spots. Part of the reason that these flop min-raises are so annoying is that, while the play probably isn't really optimal very often, collectively the fish do employ it fairly well, so until you know what a specific fish's min-raises tend to mean, they're hard to deal with.

What I would do against this player, based on the read you have, is call and reevaluate on the turn, based on what falls and how much he bets. Frequently what's going to happen is that he's going to string me along with his goddamn J9o and I won't catch a K, 5 or a running pair. But at least I'll console myself that he gave me semi-reasonable odds with his small bets and I didn't really lose that much on the hand in the end.

(I mean, in SPR terms, he may end up only charging me an amount that would have seemed reasonable if that amount had been the effective remaining stacks on the flop. Or he may follow up his flop min-raise with a turn bomb that lets me make an agonizing fold.)

Re: KK vs calling station who got agressive
 

Ya I have a bad habit of shoving over the really bad players bets... when if i'm beat, usually they won't charge me nearly as much as it will by shoving.

Re: KK vs calling station who got agressive
 

I doubt your up against AA, since AA would have raised preflop. Another possibility is a set, than you are destined to go broke anyway. Usually I think this is QJ,KJ,AJ or a flushdraw. I think I call and push a non-heart, non J,A turn. Otherwise, it's c/f for me.

Re: KK vs calling station who got agressive
 

ty for ignoring most of what i wrote.. he never does this with a flush draw or Jx

Re: KK vs calling station who got agressive
 

Usual wtf spot. Need to know sample size since AF scales very badly. If he is a genuine 1.4, I think its a pretty easy fold.

Re: KK vs calling station who got agressive
 

300 hands

Re: KK vs calling station who got agressive
 

Ye, its good enough to fold.

Re: KK vs calling station who got agressive
 

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Usual wtf spot. Need to know sample size since AF scales very badly. If he is a genuine 1.4, I think its a pretty easy fold.

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He's 1.4 playing 55% of his hands and furthermore only raising 5% of them pre-flop. That 1.4 isn't really that passive.


I don't believe he's never doing this with a draw.



I can see 3betting that flop.

Re: KK vs calling station who got agressive
 

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ty for ignoring most of what i wrote.. he never does this with a flush draw or Jx

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So fold.

Edit - sorry for the one liner, but if he's not doing this with a FD or Jx, he probably has more than one pair, and we're at best 30% equity.

Re: KK vs calling station who got agressive
 

If we had raised pre-flop to $1.50 there would be $3.25 in when he checked the flop. Then we could have bet $3 and the villain's minraise would be $6. Now we're looking at calling $3 in a $12 pot instead of $5 in a $20 pot. Is it just by newbiness or might some pot control against this weak player helped us to make this particular decision?

Re: KK vs calling station who got agressive
 

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If we had raised pre-flop to $1.50 there would be $3.25 in when he checked the flop. Then we could have bet $3 and the villain's minraise would be $6. Now we're looking at calling $3 in a $12 pot instead of $5 in a $20 pot. Is it just by newbiness or might some pot control against this weak player helped us to make this particular decision?

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No, because he's gonna call with a lot less and we want to build pots vs fish as opposed to pot controlling.

Re: KK vs calling station who got agressive
 

There's actually a lot you can factor in to help... if you've been overly active even passive players will sometimes play back at you with hands weaker then your overpair. I know when I'm in this position I take into account recent activity in making my decision as to whether or not I think he's playing back light.

In general, I agree that these players often call down with simple one pair hands and draws. Though some will surprise you by unexpectedly playing their draws aggressively.

Note - these players are also the type to smoothcall a hand like QQ or AA and then raise you on the flop....

At any rate, its likely going to cost you two more streets of betting to find out if you're good. If you feel confident that a draw is most likely out of the question, then sets and two pairs are your most likely candidates and you can fold.

Re: KK vs calling station who got agressive
 

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If we had raised pre-flop to $1.50 there would be $3.25 in when he checked the flop. Then we could have bet $3 and the villain's minraise would be $6. Now we're looking at calling $3 in a $12 pot instead of $5 in a $20 pot. Is it just by newbiness or might some pot control against this weak player helped us to make this particular decision?

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No, because he's gonna call with a lot less and we want to build pots vs fish as opposed to pot controlling.

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What about the theory that when playing against an opponent who plays poorly we want the money to go in as slow as possible, while playing against a better player we want to get it in fast to avoid being outplayed?

Re: KK vs calling station who got agressive
 

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If we had raised pre-flop to $1.50 there would be $3.25 in when he checked the flop. Then we could have bet $3 and the villain's minraise would be $6. Now we're looking at calling $3 in a $12 pot instead of $5 in a $20 pot. Is it just by newbiness or might some pot control against this weak player helped us to make this particular decision?

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No, because he's gonna call with a lot less and we want to build pots vs fish as opposed to pot controlling.

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What about the theory that when playing against an opponent who plays poorly we want the money to go in as slow as possible, while playing against a better player we want to get it in fast to avoid being outplayed?

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That should be amended to say that "when playing against an opponent who plays poorly we want the money to go in as fast as he'll let us". We don't wanna slowplay, we wanna build pots. So we bet as much as he'll call and nothing more - we still wanna play our hands fast.

Re: KK vs calling station who got agressive
 

i'm not buying a 1.4 ag with a vp of 50+ as a calling station. this guy bets and raises a lot postflop for limp/calling into every other pot with [censored].

Re: KK vs calling station who got agressive
 

like kurto and lego are getting at, your hand still has a lot of showdown value

also, to paint a better picture of these awkward spots, villain would need a sufficient read on you in order to make a stand like this...if you RR or call villain is equally as lost as you are

based on replying to a hand where you opened A6s from UTG, I think villain should be making these bets with a huge range of hands vs your opening range

Re: KK vs calling station who got agressive
 

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ty for ignoring most of what i wrote.. he never does this with a flush draw or Jx

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Why not Jx? He does look like a poster boy for players that over value top pair hands. I can´t imagine folding here, I 3bet to $23 and call a push.