WCOOP main middle set scary board facing CRAI on turn
 

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t400 (9 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

MP2 (t43775)
MP3 (t10200)
Hero (t41296)
Button (t27250)
SB (t16533)
BB (t34732)
UTG (t21175)
UTG+1 (t32950)
MP1 (t29858)

Preflop: Hero is CO with 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">MP2 raises to t1200</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, Hero calls t1200, <font color="#666666">3 folds</font>.

Flop: (t3000) J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">MP2 bets t2400</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to t7420</font>, MP2 calls t5020.

Turn: (t17840) T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
MP2 checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets t9999</font>, <font color="#CC3333">MP2 raises to t35155</font>, Hero folds.

Final Pot: t37838

villian is 18.1/10.4/2.5, cool0813. Has seemed somewhat donkish thus far. At 100-200 he limped UTG w/KQo and called a raise to 1200.

Edit: Haven't seen him play aggressively in spots like that before though.

Devo

Re: WCOOP main middle set scary board facing CRAI on turn
 

As played, I think you have to call the turn, because you have 10 outs against a straight, which is a little less than pot odds, and there are other hands he could have besides a straight or higher set.

When you bet this turn, what was your plan if villain checkraised? What was the rationale behind betting a little more than half pot?

Re: WCOOP main middle set scary board facing CRAI on turn
 

Good question.

I really felt like he had either QQ+ or big clubs and wanted to protect/get value. My standard play in this situation is to check the turn behind and call most rivers. I honestly wasn't expecting to get check-raised at all which is prob a mistake on my part. I finally decided he had some 9xcc type hand and threw it away. I hadn't seen opponent do any goofy big bets like that yet so I gave it credit. I suppose though that if I bet the turn there I gotta be planning on calling a crai esp getting 3-1, but my read changed drastically there rather than thinking, "Oh, reads still good this guy is just full of it."

Devo

Re: WCOOP main middle set scary board facing CRAI on turn
 

You are called 21K to win 59K, so you are putting in 21/80 = 26% of the money. You are 26% against a straight. So I think you have to call here, regardless of read.

http://twodimes.net/h/?z=3654298
pokenum -h 8d 8h - ac 9c -- jd th 8c 7c
Holdem Hi: 44 enumerated boards containing 8c 7c Jd Th
cards win %win lose %lose tie %tie EV
8d 8h 10 22.73 31 70.45 3 6.82 0.261
Ac 9c 31 70.45 10 22.73 3 6.82 0.739

Re: WCOOP main middle set scary board facing CRAI on turn
 

Doesn't Villain show up with TT here quite frequently? Preflop and on the flop, I think TT and 99 play the same way. In one case, you have 10 outs (plus two 9s to split), the other, you have one (plus four 9s to split). Plenty of BBs left, I'd fold. And I'd play it the way you did.

Re: WCOOP main middle set scary board facing CRAI on turn
 

i was at the table. I think against him its a giant mistake not to check the turn behind.

Re: WCOOP main middle set scary board facing CRAI on turn
 

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Doesn't Villain show up with TT here quite frequently? Preflop and on the flop, I think TT and 99 play the same way. In one case, you have 10 outs (plus two 9s to split), the other, you have one (plus four 9s to split). Plenty of BBs left, I'd fold. And I'd play it the way you did.

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He certainly could have a higher set, but there are a lot of hands you are way ahead of he could have.

I just think the call is very cEV+. I know we still have a decent stack if we fold, but I would gamble.

Re: WCOOP main middle set scary board facing CRAI on turn
 

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i wasn't at the table. I think against him its a giant mistake not to check the turn behind.

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Re: WCOOP main middle set scary board facing CRAI on turn
 

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i wasn't at the table. I think against him its a giant mistake not to check the turn behind.

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I don't think it is a mistake if you call the checkraise.

Re: WCOOP main middle set scary board facing CRAI on turn
 

This is the perfect situation to check behind on the turn.

Re: WCOOP main middle set scary board facing CRAI on turn
 

With one card to the straight, take the free card. Although, you will be faced with a tough decision if he leads out on the river without a club hitting.

What kind of bet can a set call on the river? Tough one...

Re: WCOOP main middle set scary board facing CRAI on turn
 

MLG - were you to my left? You were torturing me and I had a sneaky suspicion that it was you. Funny.

Devo

Re: WCOOP main middle set scary board facing CRAI on turn
 

yup that was me. of all the times i reraised you one of them I had aa.

Re: WCOOP main middle set scary board facing CRAI on turn
 

Yup. Turn check for sure. Not only do we not lose all our chips to a straight, but we still get their chips when we hit, and we also get more chips from a bluff. Overpairs probably fold to our turn bet anyway, so we really don't lose any value at all. There's almost zero upside to betting this turn.

Re: WCOOP main middle set scary board facing CRAI on turn
 

Given the situation, I call. There are many hands that he could have in this situation. JT, JTs, AJs, AQs. I don't see how we can fold this turn. Do you think he called the flop bet with 99? Maybe he flopped a straight, maybe he had J9, maybe Q9 and was chasing a gutshot (unlikely). Still there are a lot of hands that would c/rai and the bettor might think his hand is good.

I think you could be beaten, but you could also be way ahead.


A lot of other players stated that checking the turn is a better Idea, which I would say has some merit, but I still probably get it in on the turn. We are only behind to a made straight. It is likely that he flopped it or we are ahead. What 9 did he call your flop bet with?

Re: WCOOP main middle set scary board facing CRAI on turn
 

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Given the situation, I call. There are many hands that he could have in this situation. JT, JTs, AJs, AQs. I don't see how we can fold this turn. Do you think he called the flop bet with 99? Maybe he flopped a straight, maybe he had J9, maybe Q9 and was chasing a gutshot (unlikely). Still there are a lot of hands that would c/rai and the bettor might think his hand is good.

I think you could be beaten, but you could also be way ahead.


A lot of other players stated that checking the turn is a better Idea, which I would say has some merit, but I still probably get it in on the turn. We are only behind to a made straight. It is likely that he flopped it or we are ahead. What 9 did he call your flop bet with?

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How can you be beaten? You are only beaten by a higher set. As I explained before, if you know he has a straight, calling is cEV even.

Re: WCOOP main middle set scary board facing CRAI on turn
 

the turn bet is good, and probably better than a check. Tough spot now, but I'd have to call.

Re: WCOOP main middle set scary board facing CRAI on turn
 

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the turn bet is good, and probably better than a check. Tough spot now, but I'd have to call.

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Jeff, if the turn bet is good, shouldn't this be an easy call? If we aren't planning on calling a shove, I don't see the point in betting.

Re: WCOOP main middle set scary board facing CRAI on turn
 

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the turn bet is good, and probably better than a check. Tough spot now, but I'd have to call.

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Jeff, if the turn bet is good, shouldn't this be an easy call? If we aren't planning on calling a shove, I don't see the point in betting.

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I think he is c/shoving very rarely. I would certainly bet most of the time with top set here. I think you probably have to call now, but a read on the villain's preflop range could convince me that a check is a better play than a bet, although unlike most of the posts so far, even if that were the case I think it would only be marginally better.

Re: WCOOP main middle set scary board facing CRAI on turn
 

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Given the situation, I call. There are many hands that he could have in this situation. JT, JTs, AJs, AQs. I don't see how we can fold this turn. Do you think he called the flop bet with 99? Maybe he flopped a straight, maybe he had J9, maybe Q9 and was chasing a gutshot (unlikely). Still there are a lot of hands that would c/rai and the bettor might think his hand is good.

I think you could be beaten, but you could also be way ahead.


A lot of other players stated that checking the turn is a better Idea, which I would say has some merit, but I still probably get it in on the turn. We are only behind to a made straight. It is likely that he flopped it or we are ahead. What 9 did he call your flop bet with?

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How can you be beaten? You are only beaten by a higher set. As I explained before, if you know he has a straight, calling is cEV even.

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By "beaten" he propably means that hero has &lt;50% equity. Just having the odds to call doesn't mean he isnt beaten.