14 outs on the turn, raise?
 

I've been told to be more aggressive when I have lots of outs in a big pot. I'm not sure if I applied this concept properly in this situation though, help please.

Poker Stars
Limit Holdem Ring game
Limit: $0.02/$0.04
5 players
Converter

Pre-flop: (5 players) Hero is CO with 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
UTG folds, Hero calls, Button calls, SB calls, BB checks.

Flop: 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (4SB, 4 players)
<font color="#cc0000">SB bets</font>, BB calls, Hero calls, <font color="#cc0000">Button raises</font>, SB calls, BB calls, Hero calls.

Turn: 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (6BB, 4 players)
<font color="#cc0000">SB bets</font>, BB calls, <font color="#cc0000">Hero raises</font>, Button calls, <font color="#cc0000">SB 3-bets</font>, BB calls, Hero calls, Button calls.

River: K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (18BB, 4 players)
SB checks, <font color="#cc0000">BB bets</font>, Hero folds, <font color="#cc0000">Button raises</font>, SB folds, BB calls.

Final pot: 22BB

Re: 14 outs on the turn, raise?
 

How many outs do you have on the turn? What are they?

Re: 14 outs on the turn, raise?
 

stop open limping preflop

turn raise in this hand is a disaster. sb can EASILY have a 6. button basically ALWAYS has a king. you don't have equity. also 14 outs? 9 clubs and 2 8s and a chance your flush outs are tainted.

Re: 14 outs on the turn, raise?
 

[ QUOTE ]
How many outs do you have on the turn? What are they?

[/ QUOTE ]
Hint: a 7 is a good card for you less than 5% of the time, and I'm being generous.

Re: 14 outs on the turn, raise?
 

so the general consensus i'm hearing is..

my bet on the flop is ok, but on the turn i should have just check-called. is that right? or should i have folded?

Re: 14 outs on the turn, raise?
 

flop you are calling when bet is action before you...this is close, but the bddraws make it OK as I see it
turn you are calling when bet is action before you...probably behind, but still drawing to a flush

you probably shouldn't bluff when the chance that you can fold 3 players is pretty close to 0 and you are still behind.

Re: 14 outs on the turn, raise?
 

I would still like to see a count of outs here by OP.

I have no idea how he got to 14.

Re: 14 outs on the turn, raise?
 

[ QUOTE ]
I would still like to see a count of outs here by OP.

I have no idea how he got to 14.

[/ QUOTE ]
9 flush outs + 2 eights + 3 sevens = 14 outs, yo.

Don't count your sevens as outs. Anyone with a king just made kings and sixes, so making eights and sevens won't help.

Re: 14 outs on the turn, raise?
 

I didn't know you were the OP Landonfan but yeah if we were being really open we could count two kings too that's 16.

I wanted to know what he saw.

Re: 14 outs on the turn, raise?
 

Lol, do you teach 3rd graders [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

Did you expect op to tell you something different? We've already told him what his outs really are.

And are we counting kings as chop outs against other eights?

Re: 14 outs on the turn, raise?
 

well if he sees the 14 what 14 did he see? Where did we say what his outs really are?

How many outs does he truly have here?

Personally I count 1 out for 7's K's and 8's and maybe 7 for the flush.

My count is 8 outs.

Re: 14 outs on the turn, raise?
 

Miles told his outs, and march said a seven is almost never good.

wait, how is a king an out? We're already chopping every eight but A8.

Re: 14 outs on the turn, raise?
 

K's over 8 beats K's over 6's. A6.

Re: 14 outs on the turn, raise?
 

when i said "14" outs i was referring to the flush outs, sevens, and eights. but i agree with what was said over what my "real" outs are. forgive me, i am a noob lol

Re: 14 outs on the turn, raise?
 

This situation gets me confused too. at turn the flushcard hits giving me 8 flush outs and 6 overcards for dominating pair. should i raise or c/c?

Re: 14 outs on the turn, raise?
 

[ QUOTE ]
K's over 8 beats K's over 6's. A6.

[/ QUOTE ]
lol?

With four players still in, it's almost certain that someone has trips, therefore Hero has eight outs for the flush, not nine. (If someone has trips, say A6, then he either has the A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] in his hand, or the A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] boats him up.) If someone else is likely to have a better flush draw, then obviously those outs need to be discounted further.

The eights are good unless someone has specifically KK or K8.

The sevens and kings are never outs in this pot, given the number of opponents and the action.

Therefore, Hero has a maximum of 10 outs. If we want to take a conservative line and discount the flush by half on account of the paired board and our weakish draw, then Hero has 6 outs.

Re: 14 outs on the turn, raise?
 

shoot me now please. Sorry I completely screwed this up. Brain cramp.

I like magically mulitiplying K's for some reason.

A6 whoosh what a moron.

Turn 6 to 8 outs, call.