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- - PREFLOP (http://archives1.twoplustwo.com/showthread.php?t=511750)

Warning: Im really bored right now and I cant sleep so Im looking for anything to post right now. I dont think this hand is that interesting.

3-6 online game.

Hero is UTG. Heres the line-up: HJ 32/16/1, CO 26/18/2, BTN 50/11/.7, SB 65/9/.4, BB 65/0/.3

Hero has T [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]9 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

What do you guys do here?

reise it if you bored, you'll hit str8 anyway.

I cant resist an opportunity to play against those blinds. I raise.

i raise because stox's book told me to.

I raise, then notice that I am playing too many hands out of position against likely coldcalls/showdowns, and modify my play either by tightening up or stopping playing or going on tilt.

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i raise because stox's book told me to.

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Stox book tells you that T9s and 98s are tweener hands UTG.

In a rake heavy game like AP 3/6 and with a very loose button you are gonna end op OOP multiway a lot here.

However the blinds are really terrible which is an argument for playing more hands.

Its close IMO. But I guess ILP has the skills to extract value here.

i limp, because even if the tags raise behind us, we are going to be in a 4 way raised pot with T9s with the best position.

I basically never open limp.

Not saying its a mistake here tho.

But I'd like it more if there was one more loose passive outside the blinds. Even with the 50/11 guy OTB a raise will buy the button sometimes. Dunno if its worth it tho.

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I basically never open limp.

Not saying its a mistake here tho.

But I'd like it more if there was one more loose passive outside the blinds. Even with the 50/11 guy OTB a raise will buy the button sometimes. Dunno if its worth it tho.

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IF I open limp utg in a 6max game, I will have 98s or T9s if the table looks like ILP's, or, I will have AA, KK if I have a bunch of tags at my table, and it's my last hand before I leave,

[ QUOTE ]
I basically never open limp.

Not saying its a mistake here tho.

But I'd like it more if there was one more loose passive outside the blinds. Even with the 50/11 guy OTB a raise will buy the button sometimes. Dunno if its worth it tho.

[/ QUOTE ]

Open limping is what I did. I figured that the chances of me winning the blinds with a preflop raise was almost exactly 0% and if I did raise I would be end up in a 3-4 2bet/3bet pot almost every time. Also, atleast in theory, these tags should not isolate me with trash if theyre aware of the table conditions but if they do, as TheHip said, we'll still be in a 4/5 handed pot almost every time with 2-3 terrible players.

I didnt feel like folding was an option here due to the 3 very bad players at the table. I think it's close between raising and calling preflop. I chose calling for the reason's I stated. I agree with you Oink that if there was one more loose passive fish at the table or one more loose passive fish between me and the BTN with the same fish in the BB, calling will almost certainly be better than raising.

Becuz a raise here will can win the button a non- insignificant percentage of the time, my open limping play is debatable. Anyways, I wanted to limp in so I can fit in with the guys. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] Plus, it ended up being a 6 way family pot for 1 small bet each and I won a nice pot by hitting a flush on the river which proves once and for all that folding preflop can never be right. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] I dont care if Im playing 200-400 someday, I will still make time to play 3-6. I love this game.

Edit: oops I just realized buttons VPIP was 50... now its so close i dunno

all 3 options are very close in expecation...
do what you feel like.. Id lean towards raising it though.

One scenario I hate , which will not uncommonly happen open limping here.

you limp, bttn/co raises, SB Folds, BB calls.

If you raise, the scenario of
you raise, 3 folds, SB calls, BB calls is very common. and your hand plays fine in this spot.

contrary to popular opinion steal equity exists even with players like this.

Flops like 844 arent extremly rare, and you dont want those annoying players in position on you getting the rights to those pots just because you limped.

There are many more varaibles than this, but u listed most of them..

personally i think 844 is a fairly bad flop to get. Ax calls down almost always. all hands call the flop and you have to bet the turn again. A62/K52 type flops are what i want.

regarding the hand posted... i can't lie, i raise this at any table.

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i can't lie, i raise this at any table.

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Ya me to. The only times I dont raise here is when I misclick. But I rarely play tables with 3 loose passives behind me. I dont share ILP's love for 3/6 and paying rake through the nose [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

I limp here as well. In fact I do this some with 22-55 at similar tables. We tend to end up in a nice multi-way pots with bad players and a hand that plays very well in these situations.

I think dismissing the open-limp in this type of situation is a bad idea, when the table conditions and our seat allows to frequently create exactly the kind of situation we want to play with the hand.

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I basically never open limp.

Not saying its a mistake here tho.

But I'd like it more if there was one more loose passive outside the blinds. Even with the 50/11 guy OTB a raise will buy the button sometimes. Dunno if its worth it tho.

[/ QUOTE ]

Open limping is what I did. I figured that the chances of me winning the blinds with a preflop raise was almost exactly 0% and if I did raise I would be end up in a 3-4 2bet/3bet pot almost every time. Also, atleast in theory, these tags should not isolate me with trash if theyre aware of the table conditions but if they do, as TheHip said, we'll still be in a 4/5 handed pot almost every time with 2-3 terrible players.

I didnt feel like folding was an option here due to the 3 very bad players at the table. I think it's close between raising and calling preflop. I chose calling for the reason's I stated. I agree with you Oink that if there was one more loose passive fish at the table or one more loose passive fish between me and the BTN with the same fish in the BB, calling will almost certainly be better than raising.

Becuz a raise here will can win the button a non- insignificant percentage of the time, my open limping play is debatable. Anyways, I wanted to limp in so I can fit in with the guys. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] Plus, it ended up being a 6 way family pot for 1 small bet each and I won a nice pot by hitting a flush on the river which proves once and for all that folding preflop can never be right. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] I dont care if Im playing 200-400 someday, I will still make time to play 3-6. I love this game.

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yeah, i win

I fold it. Weak/Tight ftw at 2/4.

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I fold it. Weak/Tight ftw at 2/4.

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folding T9s vs. this line up in not an option