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The bible
Which are the strongest proof that the bible contains the words of god?
Which are the biggest flaws in the bible? Include both big and subtle contradictions. Or what ever you wish to include. Why are humans the middlemen to god? Why should another human direct me to him? Why communicate his words through a book which he knew people would question? Why should we believe in it? Why is questioning god bad? Everything we have achieved so far we have achieved through knowing, not through hoping or guessing. Why accept an assumption? How can i believe? |
Re: The bible
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Which are the strongest proof that the bible contains the words of god? Which are the biggest flaws in the bible? [/ QUOTE ] Two books which might help: Evidence That Demands a Verdict by Josh McDowell. Encyclopedia of Bible Difficulties by Gleason Archer. ( I haven't read this one because I use the Tektonics web site, which I also recommend, but have seen many good reviews from theologians I respect). |
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[ QUOTE ] Which are the strongest proof that the bible contains the words of god? Which are the biggest flaws in the bible? [/ QUOTE ] Two books which might help: Evidence That Demands a Verdict by Josh McDowell. Encyclopedia of Bible Difficulties by Gleason Archer. ( I haven't read this one because I use the Tektonics web site, which I also recommend, but have seen many good reviews from theologians I respect). [/ QUOTE ] Thanks, perhaps you want to share what you learned from the first book? You are religious? |
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Thanks, perhaps you want to sha re what you learned from the first book? You are religious? [/ QUOTE ] I'm a conservative, evangelical, semi-Calvinist, Bible believing, old earth non-evolutionary Christian. [img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img] The Evidence book is, for me, mostly a good introduction into things like how we got the Bible, why it's reliable, and some stuff on archeology. The best feature is it has an extensive bibliography of more scholarly works - if you get interested in one area, you have good references for in depth study. |
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[ QUOTE ] Thanks, perhaps you want to sha re what you learned from the first book? You are religious? [/ QUOTE ] I'm a conservative, evangelical, semi-Calvinist, Bible believing, old earth non-evolutionary Christian. [img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img] The Evidence book is, for me, mostly a good introduction into things like how we got the Bible, why it's reliable, and some stuff on archeology. The best feature is it has an extensive bibliography of more scholarly works - if you get interested in one area, you have good references for in depth study. [/ QUOTE ] I see, would it be possible to get some explanation to "why it's reliable". |
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I see, would it be possible to get some explanation to "why it's reliable". [/ QUOTE ] We know the texts we have are virtually 100% accurate relative to the originals. So we can believe we have the Bible as it was written. Why we think it's God's Word is a much more complex question. One good indicator is the way archeology has confirmed much of what the Bible says about people, places and events of that time. A good site dealing with science and the Bible is reasons.org. Though I think they somewhat overstate the case, they do go into a lot of detail as to why there is no real conflict and a lot of positive stuff of how they agree. One of the best Bible scholars of the last 60 years was F.F. Bruce . This online book goes into some detail about the New Testament. |
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One good indicator is the way archeology has confirmed much of what the Bible says about people, places and events of that time. [/ QUOTE ] So the confirmation of places and events makes you certain that the rest of what's written is true as well? |
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Why we think it's God's Word is a much more complex question. One good indicator is the way archeology has confirmed much of what the Bible says about people, places and events of that time. [/ QUOTE ] This is meaningless. Any contemporary book mentions people, places, and events. The only thing that is relevant is whether archeology confirms the "supernatural" aspects of the Bible, not the mundane aspects. Otherwise one could say that Joseph Smith's writings are supported by historical evidence as well -- as I do believe the people, places, and events he has written about are of ample evidence .... except all the angels, God speaking directly to him, and those other trifling details. There's also ample evidence that Waco did exist, as did the Branch Davidians and their compound. Hmmm, based on that overwhelming evidence, maybe David Koresh was the next messiah after all. |
Re: The bible
Don't forget that questioning the Bible is really held on par with blasphemy in the Christian church. Blasphemy is pretty important, as to some it's the only unforgivable sin (Matt. 12:31).
Any comments on this? |
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Don't forget that questioning the Bible is really held on par with blasphemy in the Christian church. Blasphemy is pretty important, as to some it's the only unforgivable sin (Matt. 12:31). Any comments on this? [/ QUOTE ] "Christianity has done its utmost to close the circle and declared even doubt to be sin. One is supposed to be cast into belief without reason, by a miracle, and from then on to swim in it as in the brightest and least ambiguous of elements: even a glance towards land, even the thought that one perhaps exists for something else as well as swimming, even the slightest impulse of our amphibious nature- is sin! And notice that all this means that the foundation of belief and all reflection on its origin is likewise excluded as sinful. What is wanted are blindness and intoxication and an eternal song over the waves in which reason has drowned." from Nietzsche's Daybreaks. |
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So the confirmation of places and events makes you certain that the rest of what's written is true as well? [/ QUOTE ] It helps along with the fact nothing has ever been proved false though atheists have given it their best effort for thousands of years. |
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[ QUOTE ] So the confirmation of places and events makes you certain that the rest of what's written is true as well? [/ QUOTE ] It helps along with the fact nothing has ever been proved false though atheists have given it their best effort for thousands of years. [/ QUOTE ] Dion't be silly, nothing has ever been proved false and most atheists waste no time tryin to do the impossible. That's no reason to believe Elvis is alive and kicking on the moon. chez |
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It helps along with the fact nothing has ever been proved false though atheists have given it their best effort for thousands of years. [/ QUOTE ] So you believe things because they haven't been proven false? Even things that CANNOT be proven false? |
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[ QUOTE ] It helps along with the fact nothing has ever been proved false though atheists have given it their best effort for thousands of years. [/ QUOTE ] So you believe things because they haven't been proven false? Even things that CANNOT be proven false? [/ QUOTE ] That and the ability to make anything appear consistant if flexible enough with intepretation and facts is pretty impressive evidence for <insert something silly here> chez |
Re: The bible
Jeremiah 3:12
I am merciful, saith the Lord, and I will not keep anger for ever. Jeremiah 17:4 Ye have kindled a fire in mine anger, which shall burn for ever. This made me laugh. There seem to be a lot of contradiction in the bible. NotReady, you claimed before that the bible today is almost 100 procent the original of what it was. How can god make so many mistakes? |
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Jeremiah 3:12 I am merciful, saith the Lord, and I will not keep anger for ever. Jeremiah 17:4 Ye have kindled a fire in mine anger, which shall burn for ever. This made me laugh. There seem to be a lot of contradiction in the bible. NotReady, you claimed before that the bible today is almost 100 procent the original of what it was. How can god make so many mistakes? [/ QUOTE ] It's not a contradiction. You just cut and lifted verses. In Jeremiah 3, he is speaking to Israel. In Jeremiah 17, he is talking to Judah. "1 "Judah's sin is engraved with an iron tool" I can remain angry at one person, while forgiving another. How is this a contradiction? |
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How can god make so many mistakes? [/ QUOTE ] I give up. How? |
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[ QUOTE ] Jeremiah 3:12 I am merciful, saith the Lord, and I will not keep anger for ever. Jeremiah 17:4 Ye have kindled a fire in mine anger, which shall burn for ever. This made me laugh. There seem to be a lot of contradiction in the bible. NotReady, you claimed before that the bible today is almost 100 procent the original of what it was. How can god make so many mistakes? [/ QUOTE ] It's not a contradiction. You just cut and lifted verses. In Jeremiah 3, he is speaking to Israel. In Jeremiah 17, he is talking to Judah. "1 "Judah's sin is engraved with an iron tool" I can remain angry at one person, while forgiving another. How is this a contradiction? [/ QUOTE ] What you wrote is not. But then again that's not what i quoted. What i quoted is a contradiction. |
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[ QUOTE ] How can god make so many mistakes? [/ QUOTE ] I give up. How? [/ QUOTE ] I was referring to the link provided by Justin. Have you seen it? The bible is your key to believing in god. You claimed that the bible that we see today is the same as the one that was written 2000 years ago. How can there be errors in it? Should it not be perfect if it was the words of god? |
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Should it not be perfect if it was the words of god? [/ QUOTE ] mr moore I don't think you're taking this seriously. here's what you do. Assume its true and therefore perfect. Reject anything that would mean its unperfect - all those things must be wrong because it is perfect. Reject any interpretations that would make it inconsistant - all those must be incorrect because it is perfect. Reject any groups of more intelligent people who thinks the evidence points to it being wrong - all these people must be wrong because its true. Must be a conspiracy, obviously being intelligent they can't really believe something true is most likely false. rinse and repeat, you'll get there. chez |
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There are a great number of fallacies in the bible. How shall that be interpreted? Is that of little or great importance?
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Re: The bible
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There are a great number of fallacies in the bible. How shall that be interpreted? Is that of little or great importance? [/ QUOTE ] Reject any fallacies - there cannot be any because it is perfect. Therefore anything that appears fallacious must be a misunderstanding. chez |
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[ QUOTE ] There are a great number of fallacies in the bible. How shall that be interpreted? Is that of little or great importance? [/ QUOTE ] Reject any fallacies - there cannot be any because it is perfect. Therefore anything that appears fallacious must be a misunderstanding. chez [/ QUOTE ] Chez, though i find your posts amusing i am afraid that i won't get any discussion at all if you follow up every post of mine with a sarcastic comment. |
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[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] There are a great number of fallacies in the bible. How shall that be interpreted? Is that of little or great importance? [/ QUOTE ] Reject any fallacies - there cannot be any because it is perfect. Therefore anything that appears fallacious must be a misunderstanding. chez [/ QUOTE ] Chez, though i find your posts amusing i am afraid that i won't get any discussion at all if you follow up every post of mine with a sarcastic comment. [/ QUOTE ] This is how it works. You don't rationally come to believe, you rationalise the belief after you've come to it. Its all very straightforward. chez |
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[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] There are a great number of fallacies in the bible. How shall that be interpreted? Is that of little or great importance? [/ QUOTE ] Reject any fallacies - there cannot be any because it is perfect. Therefore anything that appears fallacious must be a misunderstanding. chez [/ QUOTE ] Chez, though i find your posts amusing i am afraid that i won't get any discussion at all if you follow up every post of mine with a sarcastic comment. [/ QUOTE ] This is how it works. You don't rationally come to believe, you rationalise the belief after you've come to it. Its all very straightforward. chez [/ QUOTE ] I am sure it is, though, i am still interested to speak with people who believe in the bible and in god. |
Re: The bible
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[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] There are a great number of fallacies in the bible. How shall that be interpreted? Is that of little or great importance? [/ QUOTE ] Reject any fallacies - there cannot be any because it is perfect. Therefore anything that appears fallacious must be a misunderstanding. chez [/ QUOTE ] Chez, though i find your posts amusing i am afraid that i won't get any discussion at all if you follow up every post of mine with a sarcastic comment. [/ QUOTE ] This is how it works. You don't rationally come to believe, you rationalise the belief after you've come to it. Its all very straightforward. chez [/ QUOTE ] I am sure it is, though, i am still interested to speak with people who believe in the bible and in god. [/ QUOTE ] Fine, i'm just trying to explain to you that starting from the claim that there are fallacies, errors etc and expecting answers as to how they still believe is getting it the wrong way round as NotReady and co don't accept the possibility that these exist in the first place - they know they can explain away anything. chez |
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[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] There are a great number of fallacies in the bible. How shall that be interpreted? Is that of little or great importance? [/ QUOTE ] Reject any fallacies - there cannot be any because it is perfect. Therefore anything that appears fallacious must be a misunderstanding. chez [/ QUOTE ] Chez, though i find your posts amusing i am afraid that i won't get any discussion at all if you follow up every post of mine with a sarcastic comment. [/ QUOTE ] This is how it works. You don't rationally come to believe, you rationalise the belief after you've come to it. Its all very straightforward. chez [/ QUOTE ] I am sure it is, though, i am still interested to speak with people who believe in the bible and in god. [/ QUOTE ] Fine, i'm just trying to explain to you that starting from the claim that there are fallacies, errors etc and expecting answers as to how they still believe is getting it the wrong way round as NotReady and co don't accept the possibility that these exist in the first place - they know they can explain away anything. [/ QUOTE ] [/ QUOTE ] Really? NotReady, regarding the errors in the bible, what do you think of them? Also, Chez, you seem to have more experience in these matters, where do you suggest i start? |
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Also, Chez, you seem to have more experience in these matters, where do you suggest i start? [/ QUOTE ] That kinda depends where you want to end up and how important rational belief is to you. chez |
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[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] There are a great number of fallacies in the bible. How shall that be interpreted? Is that of little or great importance? [/ QUOTE ] Reject any fallacies - there cannot be any because it is perfect. Therefore anything that appears fallacious must be a misunderstanding. chez [/ QUOTE ] Chez, though i find your posts amusing i am afraid that i won't get any discussion at all if you follow up every post of mine with a sarcastic comment. [/ QUOTE ] It may seem like he's being sarcastic, but his assessment is spot on. |
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Which are the strongest proof that the bible contains the words of god? [/ QUOTE ] What's a 'god'? |
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I assume people have been down this lane one too many times. The input from believers so far is minimal. NotReady you recommended two books and then you left.
Are serious discussions not possible here? |
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NotReady you recommended two books and then you left. [/ QUOTE ] I also recommended the Tektonics web site. Here is their take on the passage. |
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[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Jeremiah 3:12 I am merciful, saith the Lord, and I will not keep anger for ever. Jeremiah 17:4 Ye have kindled a fire in mine anger, which shall burn for ever. This made me laugh. There seem to be a lot of contradiction in the bible. NotReady, you claimed before that the bible today is almost 100 procent the original of what it was. How can god make so many mistakes? [/ QUOTE ] It's not a contradiction. You just cut and lifted verses. In Jeremiah 3, he is speaking to Israel. In Jeremiah 17, he is talking to Judah. "1 "Judah's sin is engraved with an iron tool" I can remain angry at one person, while forgiving another. How is this a contradiction? [/ QUOTE ] What you wrote is not. But then again that's not what i quoted. What i quoted is a contradiction. [/ QUOTE ] Read the entire context of what is happening here. There is no contradiction. These are two entirely different events. What was Israel's sin? What was Judah's sin? Why has God promised to remain angry with Judah as opposed to promising to forgive Israel? If you want to have a serious dicussion about this, then read the story. |
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The book contains many fallacies. Is that statement correct?
How do you interpret that if it is so? |
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The book contains many fallacies. Is that statement correct? How do you interpret that if it is so? [/ QUOTE ] I don't know of a fallacy in the Bible. |
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[ QUOTE ] The book contains many fallacies. Is that statement correct? How do you interpret that if it is so? [/ QUOTE ] I don't know of a fallacy in the Bible. [/ QUOTE ] There are many contradictions. Do those not count as fallacies? What are your main reasons for believing that the words in the bible are the words of god? What are you basing your faith on? |
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[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] The book contains many fallacies. Is that statement correct? How do you interpret that if it is so? [/ QUOTE ] I don't know of a fallacy in the Bible. [/ QUOTE ] There are many contradictions. Do those not count as fallacies? What are your main reasons for believing that the words in the bible are the words of god? What are you basing your faith on? [/ QUOTE ] I don't know of a contradictions either. If you want to point one out, I'll look at it and give you my opinion. |
Re: The bible
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[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] The book contains many fallacies. Is that statement correct? How do you interpret that if it is so? [/ QUOTE ] I don't know of a fallacy in the Bible. [/ QUOTE ] There are many contradictions. Do those not count as fallacies? What are your main reasons for believing that the words in the bible are the words of god? What are you basing your faith on? [/ QUOTE ] I don't know of a contradictions either. If you want to point one out, I'll look at it and give you my opinion. [/ QUOTE ] Why did you only answer one question? |
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I don't know of a contradictions either. [/ QUOTE ] "God is love" vs. The entire Old Testament and Book of Revelations |
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