Ask me about the CFA program
 

Questions have come up in several threads recently but it appears that few 2+2ers are actually candidates or charterholders themselves. The best source of data is of course their website, but I'm willing to answer questions about my own experiences if there's any interst.

Re: Ask me about the CFA program
 

did u pass all 3 levels on the first try?

what do u honestly think of a test that you dont know what the passing grade is until AFTER youve taken it? (thats my biggest pet peeve about the CFA)

Re: Ask me about the CFA program
 

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did u pass all 3 levels on the first try?

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No. I registered for the first exam my senior year of college, but then accepted a job as an options trader on the CBOE. I was then presented with the option of studying for the exam on top of my regular studies and passing an exam I wasn't sure I'd ever be interested in or enjoying my senior year. I studied probably around 20 hours total. It didn't go well. I passed the next time I took it, several years later when I'd studied properly. I then failed the second exam the first time I took it. I'd had a 103 fever the day before but the truth was I spent all my study time with glossy eyes, thinking I could breeze through the material unfocused and still pass. I didn't make that mistake again and passed the 2nd and 3rd exams the following two years.

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what do u honestly think of a test that you dont know what the passing grade is until AFTER youve taken it? (thats my biggest pet peeve about the CFA)

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In actuality you never find out the passing grade, you just find out whether you passed or not. It's graded on a curve. I believe the cutoff point is something like 0.7 * the average score of the top percentile of test takers. Some subjectivity still exists, though. I know, for instance, that the cutoff score is reviewed if too many candidates pass. To answer your question, knowing the cutoff point wouldn't have really effected me. There's no way I could walk out and say "I'm pretty sure I got a 65 or better."

I probably should've stated in the OP that I'm not yet a CFA charterholder. I passed the third exam in June and am dependant on the CFA Institute's approval of my required work experience. I expect to receive my charter late this year.

Re: Ask me about the CFA program
 

I'm one year out of college and just accepted a job as a hedge fund analyst. I'm considering taking the June Level I Exam, but I'm not sure if it will interfere with my job. The job itself is going to be very demanding/stressful. Would you suggest holding off taking the CFA at this point in my career and focus on my work or can I do both?

Re: Ask me about the CFA program
 

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I'm one year out of college and just accepted a job as a hedge fund analyst. I'm considering taking the June Level I Exam, but I'm not sure if it will interfere with my job. The job itself is going to be very demanding/stressful. Would you suggest holding off taking the CFA at this point in my career and focus on my work or can I do both?

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Congrats on the job! This is really a question that you have to answer for yourself. But here are some things to think about:

1) Are you pretty confident that you'll be on this career path five years from now? The CFA program is very time intensive and it sounds like your free time will already be short. It'd be a shame to spend a great deal of time studying only to realize that you'd rather be a botanist. Furthermore after passing more than one of the exams you'll be kind of trapped by your salary. Typically as you progress through the exams your market value increases as an analyst and it'll get harder and harder for you to accept a job making less money doing something else. If you're not sure whether investment analysis is for you, it might be better to wait a year and figure it out. An MBA is respected in nearly every field, but a CFA charter is often not as highly regarded outside the investment profession.

2) The majority of people who take the exam are working full time, and many in this industry work overtime. So you can clearly do both if you want to.

3) How important is it to your company that you take the exams?

4) Are you at a point in your life where you can give up a significant amount of free time? You'll be giving up time with family, friends, poker, sports, reading anything unrelated to your studies, etc.

5) One more thing not everyone immediately realizes: working through the CFA program will very likely make you better at your job. It can help you jump the learning curve as you branch out in your company.

Re: Ask me about the CFA program
 

how helpful is having passed level I in finding a good job out of school? what about level II?

Re: Ask me about the CFA program
 

This question is really unrelated to the CFA certification, but nevertheless, maybe you or someone here has an answer. I'll be a CPA shortly, but I was curious about the difficulty/value of getting a CFP certification. Any thoughts?

Re: Ask me about the CFA program
 

which of the 3 levels is the hardest? do they get progressively harder, easier, or the same?

Re: Ask me about the CFA program
 

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how helpful is having passed level I in finding a good job out of school? what about level II?

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As I imagine you'll find with pretty much any certification relevant to the job you seek, the further you progress in the CFA program, the easier it will be to find a job and command a larger salary. But as I said earlier:

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An MBA is respected in nearly every field, but a CFA charter is often not as highly regarded outside the investment profession.

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The CFA program isn't something to undertake lightly. I'd only consider it if you're really very certain about your career path. I don't think that many people coming out of college can be that confident. How many times does the average person change careers in a lifetime?

I don't want it to sound as if I'm talking anybody out of the program. Far from it. I learned a lot in the program, and without my candidacy I would never have landed my current position. It was absolutely the right move for me, but it's not the sort of process I'd enter into without giving it a lot of thought beforehand.

One last thing to consider: program enrollment + exam registration (which includes books as of 2008) + prep course (optional, I went without) + practice exams (optional, I did take them) = sometimes it's best to let your employer pay. $1,000 at least for your first exam.

Re: Ask me about the CFA program
 

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This question is really unrelated to the CFA certification, but nevertheless, maybe you or someone here has an answer. I'll be a CPA shortly, but I was curious about the difficulty/value of getting a CFP certification. Any thoughts?

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I have no experience myself with the CFP certification, but from what I've been told you'll have no difficulty passing it if you are getting your CPA. There's a lot less material and it's easier to absorb. The exams have higher pass rates and are less quantitative than either the CPA or CFA exams.

The CFP certification is often most appropriate for people in sales-like positions as I understand it. Brokers, etc. I think it's pretty rare for someone to pursue both a CPA and a CFP.

Re: Ask me about the CFA program
 

This might be a bit more of a general question.

I currently work in Real Estate Mgmt, but I'm getting tired of it and am considering a career change.

I've always been interested in financial markets and I live in Manhattan. Are there any opportunities available on Wall St. for a guy pushing 40?

I have a BBA. But, I'd be willing to go back to school.

Re: Ask me about the CFA program
 

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which of the 3 levels is the hardest? do they get progressively harder, easier, or the same?

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It's sort of difficult to say because each of the three exams is different in content, format, and pass rates.

The first exam focuses more on analytical tools, the second on a deeper understanding of asset classes (including financial statement analysis), and the third most on portfolio management. If you're no good at quantitative analysis and heavy math, for instance, you might struggle more with the first exam.

The first exam is multiple choice, the second is item sets and the third item sets and essay. I know a lot of candidates who spoke English as a second language were worried about the essay portion of the third exam.

Pass rates in 2007 were 40/40/50% for the three exams. But when you factor in the fact that during the second exam you're no longer competing against those who failed to pass the first exam, and by the third exam you're really competing agains the cream of the crop, those pass rates are pretty skewed.

I had the hardest time with the second exam because I detest accounting, and financial statement analysis makes up a big chunk of the second exam. I think if the CFA Institute put it to a vote, most charterholders would vote the 2nd exam as the hardest.

Man, having to pick up those books and start over from scratch after failing the 2nd exam was one of the hardest things I've ever done. I was like "I spent five months of my free time and gave it my all, and now I have to do it again from scratch." Of course, it really wasn't from scratch nor had I really given it my all (lack of focus mostly), but I'm allowed to self-pity. [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

Re: Ask me about the CFA program
 

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I had the hardest time with the second exam because I detest accounting...



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I took the HR Block Tax Preparer course. I remember constantly thinking, "How could anyone do this full time?"

Re: Ask me about the CFA program
 

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Are there any opportunities available on Wall St. for a guy pushing 40?

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I'm really not the right guy to ask. I don't know much about real estate management or what you were doing, I don't know what you'd be interested in doing, I live in Chicago and I'm 27. Sorry. I'd give more detail about what you want to do and how much you expect to make and then hope someone other than me sees your post.

Re: Ask me about the CFA program
 

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I had the hardest time with the second exam because I detest accounting...



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I took the HR Block Tax Preparer course. I remember constantly thinking, "How could anyone do this full time?"

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Fortunately, successful accounting students don't go to work at HR Block and prepare 1040s for a career. The accounting profession is much broader than this.

Re: Ask me about the CFA program
 

i have an MBA and am fine w/ the maths etc., but what is the deal with having to get somebody to sponsor you?

i have a few people in mind but am curious as to how that works.

also, i looked at the paperwork and it seems pretty intensive.

i'm sure i'm going to be in the investment analysis profession for a good long time.

Barron

Re: Ask me about the CFA program
 

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how helpful is having passed level I in finding a good job out of school? what about level II?

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As I imagine you'll find with pretty much any certification relevant to the job you seek, the further you progress in the CFA program, the easier it will be to find a job and command a larger salary. But as I said earlier:

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that sounds like a [censored] answer that anyone could have come up with without any actual knowledge of the program. obviously it helps. that's why it's there. but how much does it actually help? do you really have any knowledge of this or is the point of this thread just to brag? .

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An MBA is respected in nearly every field, but a CFA charter is often not as highly regarded outside the investment profession.

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The CFA program isn't something to undertake lightly. I'd only consider it if you're really very certain about your career path. I don't think that many people coming out of college can be that confident. How many times does the average person change careers in a lifetime?

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the CFA program is something i've been undertaking lightly. passing the first exam was a breeze, and my background in finance before picking up the stalla prep CDs was practically zero. i imagine level ii and level iii will be more difficult (though probably still easy), but is it worth the effort?

also, even if i decided not to go into finance, i don't think studying for level I would be wasted. if you're ever going to have any money to invest, you should at least know the basics of finance, which is what level I is. being certain about your career path isn't at all necessary to take level i - i don't see why you suggest that. if you're interested, do it. once you've taken it the first time you can decide if you want to move on to level II or III (or if you fail, you can decide if you want to take it again). even if you don't end up doing level II and level III, you probably won't regret studying for level I.

but i figure if you're smart enough to pass these without too much effort, you should be smart enough to progress in your career without having some silly certification. how useful is that little piece of paper or whatever it is in actuality?

Re: Ask me about the CFA program
 

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Are there any opportunities available on Wall St. for a guy pushing 40?

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I'm really not the right guy to ask. I don't know much about real estate management or what you were doing, I don't know what you'd be interested in doing, I live in Chicago and I'm 27. Sorry. I'd give more detail about what you want to do and how much you expect to make and then hope someone other than me sees your post.

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No worries.

I'm an office mgr for a group of co-ops in Manhattan. I don't think anything I'm doing would transfer to a Wall St. career.

However, because of where I work, I know a lot of people who might be able to help. One of them said I could do research.

As far as pay, I have a pretty decent bankroll and manageable expenses. So, I could afford to take a salary hit for a year or two.

Re: Ask me about the CFA program
 

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how useful is that little piece of paper or whatever it is in actuality?

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Enough to make median salary 233k for a charterholder w/ ten years experience as of a few years ago. That is more than someone w/ a MBA,

Re: Ask me about the CFA program
 

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how useful is that little piece of paper or whatever it is in actuality?

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Enough to make median salary 233k for a charterholder w/ ten years experience as of a few years ago. That is more than someone w/ a MBA,

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but that's less than i'd expect to be making with ten years of experience anyway (and a LOT less than i'd hope to be making). numbers like that don't mean anything.

Re: Ask me about the CFA program
 

Thanks for the post. I have been thinking for sometime now about a career change. I am currently a high school math teacher but am ready to make the change. Just not sure where to. So i came to two possibilities. One was an MBA and one was a CFA. I have someone who can sponsor me but cant decide if an MBA or a CFA is the right track.

Can you perhaps give some thoughts on what you would consider when deciding between a CFA or an MBA. I am looking for a door opener into a more challenging career. I have a BA in math and an MS in Education. Sorry if this is too general of a question but any thoughts would be appreciated.

DcifrThs make sure you chime in here, you have an MBA and I want some thoughts.

Farzad

Re: Ask me about the CFA program
 

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but that's less than i'd expect to be making with ten years of experience anyway (and a LOT less than i'd hope to be making). numbers like that don't mean anything.

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If you put up a shingle, somewhere, it's always good to have a few letters after your name. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Re: Ask me about the CFA program
 

im thinking about studying for my CPA and CFA at the same time. CPA runs from OCT - March, CFA test is in June. the registration deadline is coming up this week, you think its a good idea or am i crazy? I've heard from friends that Level I is a lot of accounting so I should breeze through it. I also work full time at an accounting firm.

Re: Ask me about the CFA program
 

You mentioned that you got your trading job before getting certified. How much weight to places put on it for entry level trading/analyst jobs?

Re: Ask me about the CFA program
 

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how useful is that little piece of paper or whatever it is in actuality?

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Enough to make median salary 233k for a charterholder w/ ten years experience as of a few years ago. That is more than someone w/ a MBA,

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but that's less than i'd expect to be making with ten years of experience anyway (and a LOT less than i'd hope to be making). numbers like that don't mean anything.

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stinkypete,

What do you do now and why do you think you will be making more than that number in 10 years?

Re: Ask me about the CFA program
 

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how useful is that little piece of paper or whatever it is in actuality?

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Enough to make median salary 233k for a charterholder w/ ten years experience as of a few years ago. That is more than someone w/ a MBA,

[/ QUOTE ]


but that's less than i'd expect to be making with ten years of experience anyway (and a LOT less than i'd hope to be making). numbers like that don't mean anything.

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stinkypete,

What do you do now and why do you think you will be making more than that number in 10 years?

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i'm in school, and i probably wouldn't bother if i didn't think i'd be making more than that after 10 years in finance. there's plenty of people making more, and they are not better than me :P

it is a median salary though, i'm sure the 10th percentile or so make a lot more.

Re: Ask me about the CFA program
 

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i have an MBA and am fine w/ the maths etc., but what is the deal with having to get somebody to sponsor you?

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I could be wrong, but I'd thought that you can receive your CFA charter without sponsorship. It's when you try to join a member society, the CFA Society of Chicago for instance, that sponsorship is required.

I'm not really sure why that's a requirement. I didn't really think about it because my old boss sponsored me and it required almost no effort on his part.

I don't have a lot of time this weekend so I'll hit most of the replies on Monday.

Re: Ask me about the CFA program
 

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how helpful is having passed level I in finding a good job out of school? what about level II?

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As I imagine you'll find with pretty much any certification relevant to the job you seek, the further you progress in the CFA program, the easier it will be to find a job and command a larger salary. But as I said earlier:

[/ QUOTE ]

that sounds like a [censored] answer that anyone could have come up with without any actual knowledge of the program. obviously it helps. that's why it's there. but how much does it actually help? do you really have any knowledge of this or is the point of this thread just to brag? .

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No, I don't know anyone who has taken the exams while still in school. I can't really say how a college recruiter would react to learning that you'd passed an exam or two. I'd guess that he'd be impressed by your committment to the industry and your ability to separate yourself from candidates. But I can't say for sure. Also, I don't get the hostility. I don't really think I've said anything that can be construed as a brag.

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the CFA program is something i've been undertaking lightly. passing the first exam was a breeze, and my background in finance before picking up the stalla prep CDs was practically zero. i imagine level ii and level iii will be more difficult (though probably still easy), but is it worth the effort?

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And I'm the one bragging?

I've heard of people breezing through the first exam by putting in little effort, but I think you're the exception to the rule. I haven't heard of anyone breezing through the second or third exams. Yes, it was worth the effort for me.

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also, even if i decided not to go into finance, i don't think studying for level I would be wasted. if you're ever going to have any money to invest, you should at least know the basics of finance, which is what level I is. being certain about your career path isn't at all necessary to take level i - i don't see why you suggest that. if you're interested, do it. once you've taken it the first time you can decide if you want to move on to level II or III (or if you fail, you can decide if you want to take it again). even if you don't end up doing level II and level III, you probably won't regret studying for level I.

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What you should learn during level I goes well beyond what one would need to know to invest his own money. If investing your own money intelligently is your goal, I'd recommend picking up a couple of books on your own. I learned a great deal through taking the exams; I just mean to say that if one is still deciding between the investment profession and public accounting, for instane, they should probably put off registration. Remember that you seem to have gotten through the first exam by putting in less effort than 99% of those who pass.

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but i figure if you're smart enough to pass these without too much effort, you should be smart enough to progress in your career without having some silly certification. how useful is that little piece of paper or whatever it is in actuality?

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First of all, the exams don't measure how smart you are. They measure how well prepared you are. You're perfectly capable of passing the exam with a double digit IQ, you'd just have to put in considerable more time than the average candidate. Second of all both the process of taking the tests and the "piece of paper" itself are helpful in becoming a successful, well payed individual in the investment industry.

Re: Ask me about the CFA program
 

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i have an MBA and am fine w/ the maths etc., but what is the deal with having to get somebody to sponsor you?

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I could be wrong, but I'd thought that you can receive your CFA charter without sponsorship. It's when you try to join a member society, the CFA Society of Chicago for instance, that sponsorship is required.

I'm not really sure why that's a requirement. I didn't really think about it because my old boss sponsored me and it required almost no effort on his part.

I don't have a lot of time this weekend so I'll hit most of the replies on Monday.

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Dang, am I the only actual charterholder here? [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

And yes you do need sponsorship - it's for joining the member society but you're required to join in order to receive the charter (but you're not required to stay a member).

Re: Ask me about the CFA program
 

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i have an MBA and am fine w/ the maths etc., but what is the deal with having to get somebody to sponsor you?

i have a few people in mind but am curious as to how that works.

also, i looked at the paperwork and it seems pretty intensive.

i'm sure i'm going to be in the investment analysis profession for a good long time.

Barron

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I don't see much downside for someone who's planning on being investment management/analysis indefinitely since there isn't much material that you shouldn't know anyway. Once you understand the basics and nomenclature, most of the rest is applying logic and common sense.

Re: Ask me about the CFA program
 

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[ QUOTE ]
the CFA program is something i've been undertaking lightly. passing the first exam was a breeze, and my background in finance before picking up the stalla prep CDs was practically zero. i imagine level ii and level iii will be more difficult (though probably still easy), but is it worth the effort?

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And I'm the one bragging?

I've heard of people breezing through the first exam by putting in little effort, but I think you're the exception to the rule. I haven't heard of anyone breezing through the second or third exams. Yes, it was worth the effort for me.


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Actually it's the other way around. It's impossible to pass the first exam without at least cramming for about a week or so because of the sheer amount of arbitrary terminologies being introduced. You can, however, pass the second exam without studying at all if you have fully absorbed the material from the first exam, because most of the new material being introduced is logically sensible (thus derivable during the exam).

Re: Ask me about the CFA program
 

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[ QUOTE ]
i have an MBA and am fine w/ the maths etc., but what is the deal with having to get somebody to sponsor you?

i have a few people in mind but am curious as to how that works.

also, i looked at the paperwork and it seems pretty intensive.

i'm sure i'm going to be in the investment analysis profession for a good long time.

Barron

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I don't see much downside for someone who's planning on being investment management/analysis indefinitely since there isn't much material that you shouldn't know anyway. Once you understand the basics and nomenclature, most of the rest is applying logic and common sense.

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how much work would learning the required accounting material for the exams be for someone with absolutely no exposure to any accounting in the past?

Re: Ask me about the CFA program
 

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it is a median salary though, i'm sure the 10th percentile or so make a lot more.

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obv i meant 90th. woops.

Re: Ask me about the CFA program
 

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how much work would learning the required accounting material for the exams be for someone with absolutely no exposure to any accounting in the past?

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i can only speak for level I (though i don't think there's much accounting material beyond level I). i think if you were to spend a solid day or two studying the material, you'd have no problem passing if your knowledge of the rest of the material is strong.

Re: Ask me about the CFA program
 

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the CFA program is something i've been undertaking lightly. passing the first exam was a breeze, and my background in finance before picking up the stalla prep CDs was practically zero. i imagine level ii and level iii will be more difficult (though probably still easy), but is it worth the effort?

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And I'm the one bragging?

I've heard of people breezing through the first exam by putting in little effort, but I think you're the exception to the rule. I haven't heard of anyone breezing through the second or third exams. Yes, it was worth the effort for me.


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Actually it's the other way around. It's impossible to pass the first exam without at least cramming for about a week or so because of the sheer amount of arbitrary terminologies being introduced. You can, however, pass the second exam without studying at all if you have fully absorbed the material from the first exam, because most of the new material being introduced is logically sensible (thus derivable during the exam).

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Not sure I agree with this statement at all. Level 1 is all but a survey class, where L2, at least with accounting, I doubt anybody can walk in and pass w/o studying the materials.

Re: Ask me about the CFA program
 

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i have an MBA and am fine w/ the maths etc., but what is the deal with having to get somebody to sponsor you?

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I could be wrong, but I'd thought that you can receive your CFA charter without sponsorship. It's when you try to join a member society, the CFA Society of Chicago for instance, that sponsorship is required.

I'm not really sure why that's a requirement. I didn't really think about it because my old boss sponsored me and it required almost no effort on his part.

I don't have a lot of time this weekend so I'll hit most of the replies on Monday.

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Dang, am I the only actual charterholder here? [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

And yes you do need sponsorship - it's for joining the member society but you're required to join in order to receive the charter (but you're not required to stay a member).

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how does the sponsorship thing work? do i just call my friend and say "hey, sponsor me?"

what does he have to do (obv hed' know lol)

Barron

Re: Ask me about the CFA program
 

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i have an MBA and am fine w/ the maths etc., but what is the deal with having to get somebody to sponsor you?

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I could be wrong, but I'd thought that you can receive your CFA charter without sponsorship. It's when you try to join a member society, the CFA Society of Chicago for instance, that sponsorship is required.

I'm not really sure why that's a requirement. I didn't really think about it because my old boss sponsored me and it required almost no effort on his part.

I don't have a lot of time this weekend so I'll hit most of the replies on Monday.

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Dang, am I the only actual charterholder here? [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

And yes you do need sponsorship - it's for joining the member society but you're required to join in order to receive the charter (but you're not required to stay a member).

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how does the sponsorship thing work? do i just call my friend and say "hey, sponsor me?"

what does he have to do (obv hed' know lol)

Barron

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Barron, you don't need sponsorship until you apply for membership. You don't need to be a member to sign up for the CFA program, unless your local society has lots of good events for you to go to. I can sponsor you, but not sure you want to join the L.A. society. NYSSA is packed with events, let me know if you have a difficult time finding somebody from NYSSA. And all the sponsor has to do is fill out a form, takes no more than 30s.

Re: Ask me about the CFA program
 

How strict are they with the job experience? For example, my current title is "Securities Analyst" but I don't do anything close to researching stocks. The actual job function I can think of that would most qualify me would be reading CMO prospectuses to determine bond waterfall payment. Would that be enough to qualify me?

Re: Ask me about the CFA program
 

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how does the sponsorship thing work? do i just call my friend and say "hey, sponsor me?"

what does he have to do (obv hed' know lol)

Barron

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You need two sponsors, one of whom has to be your current supervisor (he does not have to be affiliated with the CFA Institute) and the other has to be a member, I believe, of the local society you're applying to. All they have to do is pretty much fill out a short form, most of which amount to basically saying that you didn't lie and probably won't cause a lot of trouble in the future or something like that. This can be done after you pass all three exams.

Re: Ask me about the CFA program
 

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How strict are they with the job experience? For example, my current title is "Securities Analyst" but I don't do anything close to researching stocks. The actual job function I can think of that would most qualify me would be reading CMO prospectuses to determine bond waterfall payment. Would that be enough to qualify me?

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It should be. CMO is an investment and your job is analyzing investments.