$200: TT facing minraise from 8k at 2-4 5 handed with 6k
 

Your thoughts? Fold this pf with position as we arent looking to get involved with the only stack that can do significant damage? My hope was SB came along for the ride and we got to check check it vs minraiser donk with me scooping a 3k pot. What is my line here if the flop is all undercards and he checks? Or if the flop is all unders and he still leads 2k?

Party Poker
No Limit Holdem Tournament
Blinds: t200/t400
5 players
Converter

Stack sizes:
UTG: t8510
CO: t2880
Hero: t5760
SB: t670
BB: t2180

Pre-flop: (5 players) Hero is Button with T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
<font color="#cc0000">UTG raises to t800</font>, CO folds, Hero calls t800 <font color="aaaaaa">(pot was t1400)</font>, <font color="#cc0000">SB calls all-in t470</font>, BB calls t400 <font color="aaaaaa">(pot was t2470)</font>.

Flop: J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (t3070, 3 players + 1 all-in - Main pot: t2680, Sidepot 1: t390)
BB checks, <font color="#cc0000">UTG bets t2000</font>, Hero folds, BB folds.
Uncalled bets: t2000 returned to UTG.

Re: $200: TT facing minraise from 8k at 2-4 5 handed with 6k
 

I like how it's played but how come you don't think about re-raising this pre? I guess if you're going to re-raise, you might as well shove and you don't want to do that bc you think utg will call you light? Obv $200 is way over what I play so maybe your thought process is different.

Looks safely played.

Re: $200: TT facing minraise from 8k at 2-4 5 handed with 6k
 

Shove pf

Re: $200: TT facing minraise from 8k at 2-4 5 handed with 6k
 

Um, PF shove would be horrible, to put it KINDLY.
At best if called you are 50/50 if not drawing to 2 outs. I think it is played fine, other option maybe reraising to the 2400 to 3200 range, if called (or reraise) fold as you'd still have around 2-3K to play with. Considering his stack and the other stack sizes I think you played it fine though.

Re: $200: TT facing minraise from 8k at 2-4 5 handed with 6k
 

Preflop shove is fine, but read dependent.
Folding preflop seems really bad.
As played flop is a fold.

Re: $200: TT facing minraise from 8k at 2-4 5 handed with 6k
 

guess im the only one who thinks PF shove would be ill-advised.

Re: $200: TT facing minraise from 8k at 2-4 5 handed with 6k
 

I cant believe i didnt include pf reads in my post, but as you can imagine if there were none posted, I didnt have any. My PAHUD filters 7-10, 5-6, 4, 2-3, and 1. This was near the s tart of 5-6 and I didnt have 10 hands so there was no info showing. Was 12 tabling so I didnt get to see how the 8k stack was accumulated.

Re: $200: TT facing minraise from 8k at 2-4 5 handed with 6k
 

Scotty, I think I'd shove preflop.

Ryan

Re: $200: TT facing minraise from 8k at 2-4 5 handed with 6k
 

I guess readless you played fine.

I would consider a 2200 reraise preflop though, it wouldn't really cripple us and if he pushes we might decide that we are beat or still call, at least we'll know that he pushed over our reraise of his big stack so if hes smart hell understand we got smth like 99+,AK , and get to preflop shove situation but with more information, and probably against a little worse hands. I really dislike preflop shove idea since, TT shouldn't be big favourite against hes range here, readless again, and it would really increase our variance.

As for the question about what if he leads all unders flop well, by calling pre we didn't gain any information , and we can shove/fold like preflop, but with much better pot odds and probably favorable situation, thats why i think we got to raise here pre, so we dont have to play our tens like 22 postflop.
We really would like to avoid confrontations with big stack but TT is too good ~4 handed i guess.. Tough spot.

Re: $200: TT facing minraise from 8k at 2-4 5 handed with 6k
 

How is TT not a big favourite? He MIN RAISED. Whooppee. He probably min raised so that he could get away if we push. TT is going to be a real big favourite when he folds the majority of the time.

Ryan

Re: $200: TT facing minraise from 8k at 2-4 5 handed with 6k
 

[ QUOTE ]
How is TT not a big favourite? He MIN RAISED. Whooppee. He probably min raised so that he could get away if we push. TT is going to be a real big favourite when he folds the majority of the time.

Ryan

[/ QUOTE ]


I agree that the minraise is junk a lot...occasionally JJ+ but more often garbage/a much worse hand. Shoving pf is fine here. i guess id just fold the flop as played.

Re: $200: TT facing minraise from 8k at 2-4 5 handed with 6k
 

Hero's on the button PF, a call's fine because you will have position for the rest of the hand, and unless UTG hits on the flop he's liable to check (due to having to show down with SB all-in, and SB will call his stack with just about all hands here, he's priced in to).

Okay, a shove isn't the worst move either, but I think a call is the better play.

Re: $200: TT facing minraise from 8k at 2-4 5 handed with 6k
 

[ QUOTE ]
Hero's on the button PF, a call's fine because you will have position for the rest of the hand, and unless UTG hits on the flop he's liable to check (due to having to show down with SB all-in, and SB will call his stack with just about all hands here, he's priced in to).

Okay, a shove isn't the worst move either, but I think a call is the better play.

[/ QUOTE ]


YOU!!!!

Re: $200: TT facing minraise from 8k at 2-4 5 handed with 6k
 

i'm pushing this preflop. that min raise looks a lot like a hand that has some showdown value vs the SB's random hand and/or vs the bb. A8 KJ 77 etc. i would not expect a monster very often and you have a ton of FE.

Re: $200: TT facing minraise from 8k at 2-4 5 handed with 6k
 

um, am i the only one who will minraise with a strong hand?? He could easiy be minraising with suited paints and make a donk call and end your tourney life when you're in confortabe cashing position. not to mention one over will end your tourney life 33% of the time.
Why risk going out fifth when he's pretty much a shoe-in to cash??

Re: $200: TT facing minraise from 8k at 2-4 5 handed with 6k
 

Consider this:
Hero: M ~ 10
villain: M = 14
Player 1: M = 1
Player 2: M = 3
Player 3 M = ~4
(the blinds are going around again on the 2K stacks which will lower their M's to ~ 2 and 3)
how is a push even possibly correct if is essentially 4 handed, chip stacks @8.5K, 6k, 2.1K and, 2.8K??
Why risk getting donked out to A9s or the like (which will happen 1/3 times.) I think in this situation Call &gt; Fold/Re-raise &gt; Push.
there is absolutely no reason to risk it with 10s (maybe not even jacks) against the chip leader when he is the only one who can bubble him, against the shorter stacks, you clearly beat them to the pot. the only push here should be AA/KK/ possibly AKs depending on how he plays