Two Plus Two Newer Archives - Felt lost on this one... med strength hand deep

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Felt lost on this one... med strength hand deep

I'm running like 27/26, he's 22/18, Marshall28. I haven't really been that active despite those stats, and I think this is the first time I've 3-bet him since we got this deep, although we've had a fair 3-betting history in the past.

I don't have that much experience with deep stack play, but my thoughts were basically he is opening a massive range in the CO which AJs is way ahead of, and if I actually do pick up a really good hand I want to be able to 3-bet that preflop without it looking fishy. So AJs seemed like a decent hand to 3-bet here.

FWIW he thought awhile on the flop, checked turn pretty quickly, and thought awhile on the river. I also think his calling range preflop is pretty wide given the depth of our stacks and the likelihood I have a big pair.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $2 BB (5 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

BB ($244.50)
UTG ($197)
MP ($798.70)
Button ($221.65)
Hero ($458.15)

Preflop: Hero is SB with A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
1 fold, MP raises to $8, 1 fold, Hero raises to $28, 1 fold, MP calls $20.

Flop: ($58) A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets $38, MP raises to $125, Hero calls $87.

Turn: ($308) 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, MP checks.

River: ($308) 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, MP bets $200, Hero...

Re: Felt lost on this one

i usually check flop.

Re: Felt lost on this one

Yeah, in retrospect I agree. Minus that, what do you think? I mean, if I bet flop I have to at least call a raise, right? And what's my decision like on the river?

Re: Felt lost on this one

Hmm, I prob bet/fold the river maybe. It's tough since we're playing a huge pot here and I'd rather not. Which is why I like a flop check.

Re: Felt lost on this one

Bet/fold??? What worse hands is he calling with? I only have a psb left, how can I possibly bet/fold?

Also, the other problem I have is that even if I check the flop he can escalate the pot to his liking and end up all-in by the river.

Re: Felt lost on this one

he's going to have weaker As here, and might try to get value on the river. When we c/c we see a set or AK/AQ every single time. The only think he could potentially have is a busted flush draw and I'd rather bet than c/c.

Basically, I think c/c is the worst possible option here. And shoving is pretty bad, too. Tough spot, but I'd prob fire $100 and give him credit if he raises because he can't think he can bluff us giving us such good odds to call.

Re: Felt lost on this one

Given that you are so deep and that you are oop would it not be better just to call pre?

You have not shown any strength on the turn or river so I don't think villian is putting you on an A and are betting with something like (77+,AJs+,AJo+) so I would call.
How about us betting ~180 on the river?

Re: Felt lost on this one

No way man, his flop raise really polarizes his range IMO. I think AT and down definitely just call the flop.

Also, I disagree with this statement: "The only think he could potentially have is a busted flush draw and I'd rather bet than c/c." I mean, his range preflop is pretty wide like I said, and it doesn't seem inconceivable for him to bluff-raise a flop like this and put some pressure on me with JJ-KK.

Re: Felt lost on this one

There is no way villain has JJ-KK, he may or may not put you on that hand and raise the flop, but those hands are NOT in his range

Re: Felt lost on this one

Listen, I think betting the river is incredibly awful. I get called by worse sooo rarely. Him having a worse hand worthy of calling a bet doesn't make any sense here.

Re: Felt lost on this one

then it's kind of easy. If villian does not have JJ-KK he has to have AA, AJ+, which gives us c/f.

Re: Felt lost on this one

Where do you get this range??

Re: Felt lost on this one

"wdead" don't think JJ-KK. Pocket 2, 4 or 7 are of course ther but considering the preflop action not so likely. Then there are not many likely holdings left.

Re: Felt lost on this one

i think the optimal flop line depends greatly on how high villain can perceive your continuation bet percentage to be. the more aggro/higher CB% he figures you to have, the more I like checking this flop texture with the intention of not folding.

having a larger range for reppoping combined with a more aggressive flop stance (betting with the intentions of getting into a sick spot in a larger pot) is generally going to lead to the player in position having an advantage, and on these flop textures I typically will be keeping the pot small with your holding against a player who sees I am 27/26. However, if I am carrying stats of around 16/12 I think this is an auto-fire because there's no other way to profitably play the hand with a tightish nitty image as checking tells the opponent EXACTLY where you're at and how to play the hand best.

Compare that to the 27/26 player who can open check that flop and not necessarily be automatically put on exactly KK-TT or an Ax'ish hand that wants to keep the pot small, but rather throw in a % of hands that just check the flop to give up (not play smallball-but-i-dont-want-to-fold like the entire range of the 16/12 player).

this can lead to more accurately playing it slowly and sometimes float stuff or make sick checkraises that get the opponent really confused and unable to put you on anything so he spite shoves/calls and you win monies.

Re: Felt lost on this one

as played, lol snap call? you did not call this flop to fold when the board ran out like this, god forbid the board does not run out connecting/flushing stuff.

he puts you on QQ, callcallcalcalcalclalcacacal. if he has AQ then note that he doesnt 4bet light deep in position and that he fastplays top pair ish hands on dryish board textures (does not say to himself "well what action to i get from worse" but rather "im raising cuz i have the best hand obv?" and use that info against him in lots of other hands in the future.

Re: Felt lost on this one

very nice post. I bet this flop probably over 90% of the time, and he most likely knows this. At the time I was thinking that a flop check defines my hand more than a flop bet, but I need to work on balancing this...

Re: Felt lost on this one

Yeah, I called after not too much thought and he had AKs.

Re: Felt lost on this one

Value towned, have a nice day.

Re: Felt lost on this one

For those of you who think betting the river here is a good idea here please never try to post another piece of poker advice in any thread ever again. You are making SSNL dumber than it already is.

Re: Felt lost on this one

I seriously think you're way behind here. When you c/c there, you more often see hands that beat you than hands you beat. I don't know but when I looked at the hh, I had a feeling that he might have something like AK, A4, 44 and 22. 44 and A4 is reasonable for his quick check back on the turn. What do you think? I let this one go tho.