25PLO - shove here?
 

I just started making a serious effort to learn PLO recently, after getting a little tired of only grinding out NLHE. So far I've had a lot of success and run extremely hot.

No reads on the shortstacker, he's only been at the table for about 3 hands. Villian who cold called behind me on the flop is running at about 80/10 and only folds to flop bets 25% of the time. Should I be shoving this flop?


Full Tilt Poker - Pot Limit Omaha Cash Game - $0.10/$0.25 Blinds - 6 Players - (LegoPoker Hand History Converter)

SB: $24.75
BB: $35.55
UTG: $10.05
Hero (MP): $25.05
CO: $22.95
BTN: $36.50

Preflop: Hero is dealt 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (6 Players)
UTG calls $0.25, <font color="red">Hero raises to $1.10</font>, CO calls $1.10, BTN calls $1.10, 2 folds, UTG calls $0.85

Flop: ($4.75) 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (4 Players)
UTG checks, <font color="red">Hero bets $3.25</font>, CO calls $3.25, BTN folds, <font color="red">UTG raises all-in to $8.95</font>, <font color="red">Hero raises all-in to $23.95</font>

Pot Size: $25.90 ($1.25 Rake)

Re: 25PLO - shove here?
 

First of all, this is not a good hand, and should definitely not be raised from UTG+1 in normal TAG play. Double suited does not mean it is a great hand. The hand is badly composed, with little going for it except flush.

As for the flop, why do you want to shove? Do you not want CO along for the ride?

Re: 25PLO - shove here?
 

The flop looks like your hand does PF, that is, better than it really is.

Re: 25PLO - shove here?
 

Standard. This is a nice raising hand pf. I guess you nits just like to raise preflop, hit the nuts and get paid off by idiots rather than play poker somewhere along the way.

Re: 25PLO - shove here?
 

It seriously hurts me a little bit inside when someone says that AK85 double-suited to the K and A is a bad hand in a 6max PLO game. In my eyes, this hand is completely standard the whole way through. Good raise, fine bet on the flop, and then I don't mind the push either.

Re: 25PLO - shove here?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Standard. This is a nice raising hand pf. I guess you nits just like to raise preflop, hit the nuts and get paid off by idiots rather than play poker somewhere along the way.

[/ QUOTE ]
In 25PLO, statistically there are roughly eight people going all-in at some point in every hand. You gotta pick your spots to shove and get in as a 70/30. Real poker is left for those playing the big-boy games.

Re: 25PLO - shove here?
 

[/ QUOTE ]In 25PLO, statistically there are roughly eight people going all-in at some point in every hand. You gotta pick your spots to shove and get in as a 70/30. Real poker is left for those playing the big-boy games.

[/ QUOTE ]

Please, show me the stats where "roughly 8 people get all in at some point during the hand. P.S there are 6 players at this table...

Re: 25PLO - shove here?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Standard. This is a nice raising hand pf. I guess you nits just like to raise preflop, hit the nuts and get paid off by idiots rather than play poker somewhere along the way.

[/ QUOTE ]
In 25PLO, statistically there are roughly eight people going all-in at some point in every hand. You gotta pick your spots to shove and get in as a 70/30. Real poker is left for those playing the big-boy games.

[/ QUOTE ]

Bro, I've paid my dues at $25PL and lower, and I play PLO live, so I know all about everyone calling every preflop raise and shoving every flop. That doesn't make any difference to the fact that this is a raise preflop.

You're right in that you gotta pick your spots to make sure you only get it in 70/30 or better. But that would be a losing strategy.

Re: 25PLO - shove here?
 

Call me a nit , but I don't see how a 2nd nut flush draw + a backdoor flush draw + a pair of 8's is shove material in PLO. Shorthanded or not.

Re: 25PLO - shove here?
 

You're a nit.

Re: 25PLO - shove here?
 

What on earth are u putting this guy on ? You're FD may def not be good , even if you hit Aces up on the turn that may not be good .
That leaves the backdoor flush.
You might think that 2nd nut and 3rd nut draws are ok shorthanded but keep playing them and you'll find out otherwise.

Re: 25PLO - shove here?
 

What's he beating here? Looks like a good hand and it isn't trash, but he isn't beating much is he?

I'm not a very experienced player, so my questions are genuine, why shove here? So you can say you're not a nit?

Re: 25PLO - shove here?
 

i dont uderstand why we isolating CO with such hand

to me,
call&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;shove

Re: 25PLO - shove here?
 

Hero shoves because he is forced to call the all-in, but by doing so he is giving CO great odds. If hero shoves, CO should be folding most hands than are currently beating him or could beat him by the river, while cleaning up some outs. Shorty isn't going to have a set everytime, maybe not even the majority.

Re: 25PLO - shove here?
 

[ QUOTE ]
What on earth are u putting this guy on ? You're FD may def not be good , even if you hit Aces up on the turn that may not be good .
That leaves the backdoor flush.
You might think that 2nd nut and 3rd nut draws are ok shorthanded but keep playing them and you'll find out otherwise.

[/ QUOTE ]

you must be up a lot of money in omaha.

Re: 25PLO - shove here?
 

[ QUOTE ]
What's he beating here? Looks like a good hand and it isn't trash, but he isn't beating much is he?

I'm not a very experienced player, so my questions are genuine, why shove here? So you can say you're not a nit?

[/ QUOTE ]
Honestly, he isn't beating much. But he does have a draw that figures to beat the guy who's allin.

What does CO have here? Probably not a lot either.

If you're compelled to call the allin for your flush draw, why not take a shot at knocking out CO while you're at it (making him forfeit the 3.5 he already invested). If he folds, it costs the same as calling since you get your money back anyways. If he calls, you still have a nice draw.

Re: 25PLO - shove here?
 

[ QUOTE ]
i dont uderstand why we isolating CO with such hand

to me,
call&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;shove

[/ QUOTE ]

maybe cause if we hit an ace or king, or 8, are hand will be best and take town the medium sized pot. by not raising the other guy might be give odds to draw to his hand.

Re: 25PLO - shove here?
 

wow this hand seems totally fine and everyone who thinks that this is spewy is a huge nit. UTG is probably horrible and is def behind your range, and CO will probably fold weak made hands and weak draws here.

Re: 25PLO - shove here?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
What's he beating here? Looks like a good hand and it isn't trash, but he isn't beating much is he?

I'm not a very experienced player, so my questions are genuine, why shove here? So you can say you're not a nit?

[/ QUOTE ]
Honestly, he isn't beating much. But he does have a draw that figures to beat the guy who's allin.

What does CO have here? Probably not a lot either.

If you're compelled to call the allin for your flush draw, why not take a shot at knocking out CO while you're at it (making him forfeit the 3.5 he already invested). If he folds, it costs the same as calling since you get your money back anyways. If he calls, you still have a nice draw.

[/ QUOTE ]

OK cheers.

Re: 25PLO - shove here?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
What's he beating here? Looks like a good hand and it isn't trash, but he isn't beating much is he?

I'm not a very experienced player, so my questions are genuine, why shove here? So you can say you're not a nit?

[/ QUOTE ]
Honestly, he isn't beating much. But he does have a draw that figures to beat the guy who's allin.

What does CO have here? Probably not a lot either.

If you're compelled to call the allin for your flush draw, why not take a shot at knocking out CO while you're at it (making him forfeit the 3.5 he already invested). If he folds, it costs the same as calling since you get your money back anyways. If he calls, you still have a nice draw.

[/ QUOTE ]

This was pretty much my reasoning. I don't think there's any question I'm beating both ranges here, the fact that CO is a huge calling station means I most likely have a lot more equity against him than I would against a reasonable player. I disliked flatcalling the shove because I don't have a strong made hand, just a good draw, and it puts me in a kind of awkward spot on the turn if I blank.


Anyway, CO folded, shortstack had J643, I spiked an 8 on the turn and took it down.

Re: 25PLO - shove here?
 

i think we have a tons of value if CO has any flush draw
ummm okay maybe we should push [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img](((

Re: 25PLO - shove here?
 

One more question about this hand. If I didn't hit a pair on the flop here, I'm pretty sure shoving would be bad (but maybe I'm wrong.) If I don't have a pair on this flop, should I be calling the shove from the shortstack or folding? Unless I'm wrong and shoving is still OK.

Re: 25PLO - shove here?
 

i think this is ok too unless co is a nit and we somehow have to fear him having something big here. i wouldnt expect to make big money with that flop push though on average.