Hand against Fossilman
 

This is 15 minutes into the tournament...

PokerStars Game #12283207609: Tournament #70000017, $300+$20 Hold'em No Limit - Level I (10/20) - 2007/09/26 - 15:14:09 (ET)
Table '70000017 526' 6-max Seat #1 is the button
Seat 1: Sonsbiggestf (2790 in chips)
Seat 2: hoozie000 (3100 in chips)
Seat 3: journey075 (3260 in chips)
Seat 4: hotmark777 (3180 in chips)
Seat 5: The_Pr1me (2960 in chips)
Seat 6: FossilMan (2740 in chips)
hoozie000: posts small blind 10
journey075: posts big blind 20
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to hotmark777 [Jd Js]
FossilMan said, "ty Rach"
hotmark777: raises 40 to 60
The_Pr1me: folds
FossilMan: raises 120 to 180
Sonsbiggestf: folds
hoozie000: folds
journey075: folds
hotmark777: calls 120
*** FLOP *** [9h 2c 2h]
hotmark777: checks
FossilMan: bets 240
hotmark777: raises 400 to 640
FossilMan said, "more likely out of fear of embarrassment, rather than to hide info from opponents"
FossilMan: raises 1920 to 2560 and is all-in

Re: Hand against Fossilman
 

I think you gotta let it go. I don't really see Greg shoving here with anything < JJ. His repop at your UTG raise and flop shove is screaming big hand

Re: Hand against Fossilman
 

he's got QQ+, with KK or AA more likely. or AhKh. if it's QQ you're 91.6% vs 8.4% if he has AhKh you're 51-49. he never has air; he does not have 99 or 2x. fold.

Re: Hand against Fossilman
 

I really hate your checkraise. I think you probably have to fold, with the flush draw out there it'd make enough sense to play a big pair fast and I doubt he'd try to bluff a random tournament player unless you two have some history from cash or something, though your raise does look really weak and he's certainly capable of making that move.

Re: Hand against Fossilman
 

checkraising sucks unless you can insta-snap it off here...

i dont think you can

Re: Hand against Fossilman
 

[ QUOTE ]
checkraising sucks unless you can insta-snap it off here...

i dont think you can

[/ QUOTE ]

So you suggest i check call on the flop? How about preflop any room for a three bet oop? What was the optimal way of playing this hand.

I opted for the check raise because there are 19 cards that can make my decision even harder on turn. (akq or heart)

Re: Hand against Fossilman
 

Check raise is poor. I'd likely check/call here and check/fold unimproved. He's repped major strength through two streets... I think he'll slow down versus an unknown on the turn with AK because trying to push unknowns off overpairs in these things isn't usually a good thing.

He'd be insane to have AK without the flush draw.

My guess is he had Aces. If not aces then Kings.

Re: Hand against Fossilman
 

your image to greg is internet random, so with that said your flop CR is total spew because he is rarely getting out of line and will be shoving on this flop with QQ+ and high heart combinations, and rarely something JJ is ahead of.

given that you should fold to the shove, which makes your hand the same as 65spades. Checkraising 65spades on this flop is really meh because wtf are you repping? Your hand looks so weak.

So, we get back to the fact that your hand sucks as a bluff, and what is its worth for value? I cant possibly see it being +EV. yeah you look weak, but you are pulling some kind of sickness in attempting to get greg to pull a huge move on an internet random.

i dont think there is anything wrong with taking off a card and playing a turn oop when stacksizes are still pretty deep. you are polarizing your range a fair amount but you can safely fold to a strong turn bet as, once again, greg is going to put you on the image of a random tournament player who would be incapable of folding TT here ever so he's obviously going to threebarrel AA-QQ/sometimes JJ and he will prolly check behind high cards on the turn.

your play on the turn weighs on how often you think greg will bluff an internet random on the turn, and if he ever 3barrel bluffs. also how often he can thinly valuebet a high pp on the river.

Re: Hand against Fossilman
 

[ QUOTE ]
your image to greg is internet random, so with that said your flop CR is total spew because he is rarely getting out of line and will be shoving on this flop with QQ+ and high heart combinations, and rarely something JJ is ahead of.

given that you should fold to the shove, which makes your hand the same as 65spades. Checkraising 65spades on this flop is really meh because wtf are you repping? Your hand looks so weak.

So, we get back to the fact that your hand sucks as a bluff, and what is its worth for value? I cant possibly see it being +EV. yeah you look weak, but you are pulling some kind of sickness in attempting to get greg to pull a huge move on an internet random.

i dont think there is anything wrong with taking off a card and playing a turn oop when stacksizes are still pretty deep. you are polarizing your range a fair amount but you can safely fold to a strong turn bet as, once again, greg is going to put you on the image of a random tournament player who would be incapable of folding TT here ever so he's obviously going to threebarrel AA-QQ/sometimes JJ and he will prolly check behind high cards on the turn.

your play on the turn weighs on how often you think greg will bluff an internet random on the turn, and if he ever 3barrel bluffs. also how often he can thinly valuebet a high pp on the river.

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or just tell him the c/r sux0rs

Re: Hand against Fossilman
 

lol thought u knew how to play poker hotmark

Re: Hand against Fossilman
 

Bakes maybe this hand was played poorly. I am a relative novice in tournaments esp 6 max. I have played a lot of tournaments online but most of the time just to blow off steam. Now i am trying to improve my game and strategy.

Ok everyone agrees flop check raise was poor. And check call was the best way.

How about preflop is that standard?

Re: Hand against Fossilman
 

but dude, its 150+bbs, you are a winner at cash games, you should know quite a bit about ranges in this spot...thought u might know not to c/r in this spot. pf is obv fine, i'd c/c flop, c/c turn, prob c/f river. maybe even c/f turn.

Re: Hand against Fossilman
 

I think preflop is standard. 4 betting is pretty awful as is folding (though I like folding better than 4 betting).

Re: Hand against Fossilman
 

I hesitated before folding. My gut feeling told me he could be pushing a worse hand because i was quite active.

He showed 88

Anyway i ended up busting him a bit later

Re: Hand against Fossilman
 

I honestly don't get his play in the least. I can't believe he would expect you to muck tens through QQ (which your hand looks like) since you are an unknown and since you put a bunch in already.

Re: Hand against Fossilman
 

I dont know why everyone insists i am unkown. I have actually played fossilman in cash games on two or three occasions (high stakes) so it is very possible he took notes on me.

I am also one of the few players who has been consistently playing high stakes online poker for the past three to four years

Re: Hand against Fossilman
 

I don't want to sound results oriented, but given this is 6-max and given villain is a world-famous LAG, I am not sure it is so obvious villain has a higher pp. To the poster, saying don't you know how to play poker, isn't that what OP did, rather than play like a nit?

Re: Hand against Fossilman
 

What's your history with him? Had he 3-bet anytime before this hand? What's your image in cash games? What's your image in this tournament?

Re: Hand against Fossilman
 

stars pros in general don't care much about these but since raymer won one I would expect he cares much more then any other stars pro.

But greg also is a very active guy PF and postflop and I think it's fine going broke here if you c/r though I usually c/r bet/call flop.

Re: Hand against Fossilman
 

i think raymer likes to shove with any piece of anything early to try to get that big stack right away, but i could be wrong

anyway, i dunno, i think you probably should not c/r/fold the flop, if you c/r it has to be because you expect, say, that he is gonna get out of line with a worse hand

Re: Hand against Fossilman
 

[ QUOTE ]
He showed 88

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Let's get the facts straight. I didn't just show 88. I showed 8s8d, which to me is still the nuts. One loss with this hand in 3.5 years hasn't completely cured me, and it is the one hand I will still overplay.

If it was 8c8h, I wouldn't have played it that way. Seriously.

Hope you you're still in, and still have a big stack.

Later, Greg Raymer (FossilMan)

Re: Hand against Fossilman
 

lol greg how do you get those 8s so often.

Re: Hand against Fossilman
 

i think c/r flop without the intention of snap calling a shove is terrible.

Re: Hand against Fossilman
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
He showed 88

[/ QUOTE ]

Let's get the facts straight. I didn't just show 88. I showed 8s8d, which to me is still the nuts. One loss with this hand in 3.5 years hasn't completely cured me, and it is the one hand I will still overplay.

If it was 8c8h, I wouldn't have played it that way. Seriously.

Hope you you're still in, and still have a big stack.

Later, Greg Raymer (FossilMan)

[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks Greg it was a pleasure playing with you and i really dont know how you have the patience to play and chat with all the players/railbirds simultaneously. It is really nice of you.

My offer for Lebanon still stands, and trust me you will NEVER find a bigger group of bad players in a single tournament. As i said if you are up to some adventure with a bit of risk, you are more than welcome here and i promise you at least one or two good local diners. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] If i tell them you are coming, i am sure they will treat you fine, because as i have posted previously they treat the regular player quite well (free drinks of any kind, free dinner buffet, with accompanying piano player and singer etc...) (and just in case, no i have nothing to do with the local casino, it is government owned)

The website is www.cdl.com.lb try and convince Joe also!!

(just to specifiy main event end of the month, and although it isnt 10k, the fact there are so many horrible players makes it very worth while)

Any 2p2'ers interested pm me also

Re: Hand against Fossilman
 

hotmark when are we going to play hu you are sooooooooo bad
this hand is LOL


holy crap i;'m laughing hard at this hand

let's play hu


jesus c'mon hu huhhuhuhuh


HHHHHHHHHHHHEAdsup up
don't run from me again

Re: Hand against Fossilman
 

Ship, i try to enjoy myself while playing, so normally i like to stay out of the way of total obnoxious as.sholes like yourself. Go grow some pubes and facial hair, then come back and talk to me (yes i did come across your picture on facebook).

And while ur at it, keep calling check raise-all ins on the river for 150 BB's, lose and then start whining about how bad ur opponent is. Its definitely a formula for success, and definitely shows how good a player you are.

Re: Hand against Fossilman
 

[ QUOTE ]
hotmark when are we going to play hu you are sooooooooo bad
this hand is LOL


holy crap i;'m laughing hard at this hand

let's play hu


jesus c'mon hu huhhuhuhuh


HHHHHHHHHHHHEAdsup up
don't run from me again

[/ QUOTE ]

I think you can tell a lot of people on this board don't have a proper job. Lots of egos, and posturing. Not much growing up. Just put together reasoned arguments without getting personal.

Re: Hand against Fossilman
 

I think this is a good post by OP, and he played the hand well given his read on villain.

Re: Hand against Fossilman
 

I agree that a C/r without the intention of snap calling this is bad. Why commit all of those chips if you plan on folding to a shove? In 6handed and against a LAG player I'd be glad to get it all in with JJ on that flop

edit: i also came across ship on facebook, looks pretty immature "baller" lol

Re: Hand against Fossilman
 

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I think this is a good post by OP, and he played the hand well given his read on villain.

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Kiss of death.

And jones next time you're playing HU come down to 400 or I'll move up and play you for a bit. Too funny.

Re: Hand against Fossilman
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I think this is a good post by OP, and he played the hand well given his read on villain.

[/ QUOTE ]

Kiss of death.

And jones next time you're playing HU come down to 400 or I'll move up and play you for a bit. Too funny.

[/ QUOTE ]
I thoght this would stop after my latest cash. Try looking up betgo and 0evg0 on OPR.

Re: Hand against Fossilman
 

[ QUOTE ]
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I think this is a good post by OP, and he played the hand well given his read on villain.

[/ QUOTE ]

Kiss of death.

And jones next time you're playing HU come down to 400 or I'll move up and play you for a bit. Too funny.

[/ QUOTE ]
I thoght this would stop after my latest cash. Try looking up betgo and 0evg0 on OPR.

[/ QUOTE ]

my dad can beat u up

Re: Hand against Fossilman
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I think this is a good post by OP, and he played the hand well given his read on villain.

[/ QUOTE ]

Kiss of death.

And jones next time you're playing HU come down to 400 or I'll move up and play you for a bit. Too funny.

[/ QUOTE ]
I thoght this would stop after my latest cash. Try looking up betgo and 0evg0 on OPR.

[/ QUOTE ]

BETGOWNED !!!